O2 sensor eliminator and Hindle results

[ataDude]

...So all the modes (2,3,4) work in conjunction with each other - right?

Kind of... they're (2-4) independent of each other and represent different "fuel add" amounts (acceleration vs. full throttle vs. cruise).

Mode 5 moves the start of the "acceleration point" up/down the RPM range.

Mode 6 moves the start of the "full throttle point" up/down the RPM range.

So....the related adjustments are:

Mode 2 (acceleration fuel add amount) works in conjunction with Mode 5 (acceleration RPM point)

Mode 3 (full throttle fuel add amount) works in conjunction with Mode 6 (full throttle RPM point)

Mode 4 (cruise) appears to be independent although I'll bet it extrapolates what "cruise" is as compared to at least Mode 3 (full throttle RPM point).

Clear as mud, right? :hun:

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[ataDude]

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Ping for the added bold text above.
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[Pete Denzer]

Had a thought last night (dangerous!) after Hindle/O2 mod test ride and reading posts. I had disconnected battery during O2 mod install, but had not let engine idle afterwards for an extended period; rather, I revved it mildly to experience effects since it was raining. So I pulled main relays and fuse to let ECU reset overnight, then let idle for 15 minutes before riding this morning. Big difference (and I know there's been discussion on this topic) and rig now runs close enough to perfect to satisfy my purposes, ie. smooth powerband, improved lugging ability, and no spits or hiccoughs. Curious how this will affect my mileage, though richer I can run at lower rpms.

 

[Firefly]

Kind of... they're (2-4) independent of each other and represent a different "fuel add" amounts (acceleration vs. full throttle vs. cruise).

Mode 5 moves the start of the "acceleration point" up/down the RPM range.

Mode 6 moves the start of the "full throttle point" up/down the RPM range.

So....the related adjustments are:

Mode 2 (acceleration fuel add amount) works in conjunction with Mode 5 (acceleration RPM point)

Mode 3 (full throttle fuel add amount) works in conjunction with Mode 6 (full throttle RPM point)

Mode 4 (cruise) appears to be independent although I'll bet it extrapolates what "cruise" is as compared to at least Mode 3 (full throttle RPM point).

Clear as mud, right? :hun:

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But the three modes are not 'selectable' as in can only run 2, 3 or 4 -- right? Unless of course you program 1 or 2 of them to remain at stock levels.

Make sense?

 

[ptoemmes]

Had a thought last night (dangerous!) after Hindle/O2 mod test ride and reading posts. I had disconnected battery during O2 mod install, but had not let engine idle afterwards for an extended period; rather, I revved it mildly to experience effects since it was raining. So I pulled main relays and fuse to let ECU reset overnight, then let idle for 15 minutes before riding this morning. Big difference (and I know there's been discussion on this topic) and rig now runs close enough to perfect to satisfy my purposes, ie. smooth powerband, improved lugging ability, and no spits or hiccoughs. Curious how this will affect my mileage, though richer I can run at lower rpms.

Yeah - someone much smarter than me really has to explain this power-reset thing. Part of me says if it works - and it seems to - then do it. What harm can it casue? None. But, what the heck us REALLY going on? :gaah:

 

[ataDude]

But the three modes are not 'selectable' as in can only run 2, 3 or 4 -- right? Unless of course you program 1 or 2 of them to remain at stock levels.

Make sense?

They are selectable to the degree you can set each independently to zero so that option remains at the stock fuel mixture level.

I can run cruise at stock and add fuel at full throttle. Or, I can run cruise with additional fuel and leave acceleration at stock. Or...
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[ptoemmes]

Kind of... they're (2-4) independent of each other and represent a different "fuel add" amounts (acceleration vs. full throttle vs. cruise).

Mode 5 moves the start of the "acceleration point" up/down the RPM range.

Mode 6 moves the start of the "full throttle point" up/down the RPM range.

So....the related adjustments are:

Mode 2 (acceleration fuel add amount) works in conjunction with Mode 5 (acceleration RPM point)

Mode 3 (full throttle fuel add amount) works in conjunction with Mode 6 (full throttle RPM point)

Mode 4 (cruise) appears to be independent although I'll bet it extrapolates what "cruise" is as compared to at least Mode 3 (full throttle RPM point).

Clear as mud, right? :hun:

.

Off topic perhaps but watching the TBR JB promo clips they state that they are able to map to load - well as defined by 4-5 adjustment points.

Aside from probably RPMs what inputs are they using to determine load? Hows does the JB know full throttle, cruise, accelleration, etc? IS ther a TPS signal?

Pete

 

[ataDude]

Off topic perhaps but watching the TBR JB promo clips they state that they are able to map to load - well as defined by 4-5 adjustment points.

Aside from probably RPMs what inputs are they using to determine load? Hows does the JB know full throttle, cruise, accelleration, etc? IS ther a TPS signal?

Pete

It also accepts input from the O2 sensor. But... as you surmised... I believe RPM to be the critical factor... it gets that info from the pulses at the fuel injectors. No TPS sensor input is used.

You program the box typically by the seat-of-the-pants method... what works best for your bike. It's extremely easy to change... particularly if you mount the small processor box where it's accessible... like Lamont and I did (see pic below). BTW... I'll take a SWAG and say the box is waterproof... I've been through torrential rains with it mounted like this and there were no problems.

For a more sophisticated device, like the Power Commander, you generally tweak it on a dyno in conjunction with an exhaust gas analyzer. Keep in mind, on the PC you can add or subtract fuel at many different RPM points... not just two or three.

 

[ataDude]

Pete Denzer... sorry for the thread hi-jack! :dontknow:

 

[ptoemmes]

Yeah - me too. Thanks ataDude. From my - limited - experience in the distant past with turbo cars the word LOAD is kind of specific.

No way the JB is measuring LOAD as defined by turbo guys, but in the end all it has to do is work and be 'simple". The rest is marketing.

Pete

 

[NancysToy]

Yeah - someone much smarter than me really has to explain this power-reset thing. Part of me says if it works - and it seems to - then do it. What harm can it casue? None. But, what the heck us REALLY going on? :gaah:

Removing the power shuts down the shields, and lets the leprechauns get in at night to tweak the settings. :joke:
-Scotty

 

[mjw930]

Yeah - me too. Thanks ataDude. From my - limited - experience in the distant past with turbo cars the word LOAD is kind of specific.

No way the JB is measuring LOAD as defined by turbo guys, but in the end all it has to do is work and be 'simple". The rest is marketing.

Pete

Everything is based on RPM and delta RPM. Load is perceived as a rapid change in RPM (and injector pulse width with some pulse width modulators). Cruise is sensed as relatively static RPM. RPM is calculated based on the time between injector pulses. It's really a very simple device that works pretty darn good and in fact, they work well without faking out the O2 sensors if engineered correctly.

 

[ataDude]

Everything is based on RPM and delta RPM. Load is perceived as a rapid change in RPM (and injector pulse width with some pulse width modulators). Cruise is sensed as relatively static RPM. RPM is calculated based on the time between injector pulses. It's really a very simple device that works pretty darn good and in fact, they work well without faking out the O2 sensors if engineered correctly.

Thanks for kicking in here. Good info!
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[Firefly]

Off topic perhaps but watching the TBR JB promo clips they state that they are able to map to load - well as defined by 4-5 adjustment points.

Aside from probably RPMs what inputs are they using to determine load? Hows does the JB know full throttle, cruise, accelleration, etc? IS ther a TPS signal?

Pete

In order to learn more about the TPS signal, you would need to submit a TPS report - or didn't you get that memo?:roflblack:

 

[Firefly]

So is there anything to be gained by adding it to my setup with the Race Air Intake System & Fuel pressure mod? Would I need to reduce the Fuel pressure back to stock settings?

 

[ptoemmes]

Just to keep the embers burning on "what if anything does disconnecting power to the ECU do" there was this post earlier from dltang

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11160

where her Spyder was running crappy and actually barfed a CEL once or twice on the dash. After disconnecting the battery it seemed to run better for a while, but I suppose the real thing I want to point out is that BRP could not pull any codes so it is assumed the battery disconnect erased the codes.

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11290

I suppose the other assumption is that CELs log codes - I think they should. Should a battery disconnect erase codes?

Tribbles I tell you...(see below)

Pete

 

[ptoemmes]

Removing the power shuts down the shields, and lets the leprechauns get in at night to tweak the settings. :joke:
-Scotty

Leprechauns do not exist. With the shields down it could have been Tribbles though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribbles

Pete