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No compression

did you double check the timing?
just saw your edit with no gas so it wouldn't be timing

I’m not 100% sure that there’s no gas. I did think about double checking timing however I installed it with all the lines matching up correctly so I don’t see how I could’ve messed up the timing and when it does turn over I don’t hear anything wrong with the cylinder no odd noises.

Is the only way to check the timing by removing the valve cover setting the cylinder to top dead center and making sure all the Markings align?
 
I’m not 100% sure that there’s no gas. I did think about double checking timing however I installed it with all the lines matching up correctly so I don’t see how I could’ve messed up the timing and when it does turn over I don’t hear anything wrong with the cylinder no odd noises.

Is the only way to check the timing by removing the valve cover setting the cylinder to top dead center and making sure all the Markings align?

Cam timing, yes. As the person doing the task of assembling the engine, when you got it timed, meaning cams installed but no valve cover installed, did you wind the engine through by hand and verify / double check your settings?

I believe you posted having compression psi, so that to is a good indicator that mechanically you are ok about the assembly.

If it were me, I would be looking at fuel delivery to that cylinder after being certain all electrical items are securely connected and there is spark.
 
Are you sure that injectors good? How hard would it be to flip flop them over and see if it fires the new side?? Just a thought:dontknow:
 
Okay i got the bike running!

UNFORTUNATELY something is ALSO wrong with cylinder one... compression is good, but oil is coming from the exhaust from that cylinder, and smoke. I assume its oil. I dont even know where to start, i was soo happy when it started then that took a u-turn.

3 codes pop up:
P0130
P2545
C0040

Dont think any of those would help diagnose why oil is coming out of my exhaust. My only ASSUMPTION is the valve seats, i dont say rings because the compression is still good but honestly im reaching for an answer. How do i go about diagnosing a bad valve seat vs piston rings?

oil.jpg

Sorry it was getting dark, hope the picture may help. It looks white with maybe a hint of blue to me. Im bad at judging that though.
 
Okay i got the bike running!

UNFORTUNATELY something is ALSO wrong with cylinder one... compression is good, but oil is coming from the exhaust from that cylinder, and smoke. I assume its oil. I dont even know where to start, i was soo happy when it started then that took a u-turn.

3 codes pop up:
P0130
P2545
C0040

Dont think any of those would help diagnose why oil is coming out of my exhaust. My only ASSUMPTION is the valve seats, i dont say rings because the compression is still good but honestly im reaching for an answer. How do i go about diagnosing a bad valve seat vs piston rings?

View attachment 177613

Sorry it was getting dark, hope the picture may help. It looks white with maybe a hint of blue to me. Im bad at judging that though.

The tool of choice to diagnose valve concerns, worn rings, and even sometimes a bad head gasket would be a differential cylinder compression tester or a leakdown tester. Both inspect by inflating the cylinder with air via the spark plug hole.

Consider too, any issues with the scavenge pump may allow oil to remain in the dry sump
 
Consider too, any issues with the scavenge pump may allow oil to remain in the dry sump

Can you elaborate, assume i dont know what the scavenge pump is, and how that could cause the smoke. PLEASE

And how do i test the the pump is working? im assuming by a little bit of google search that the scavenge pump is a pump that pumps the oil out of the oil res?

edit: just watched a video how to do a leakdown test and the guy mentioned that if smoke comes out the throttle body it can be worn valves, sorry i forgot to mention that that did happen as well. Would you agree to that? i will do a leakdown test as well, just hoping a local parts store rents them im tired of buying tools im only gonna use once or twice haha.
 
It won't be valves or their seats - more likely damaged rings when assembled thusly.

Thanks @pegasus1300 that trick saved me some money and worked like a charm.
 
Can you elaborate, assume i dont know what the scavenge pump is, and how that could cause the smoke. PLEASE

And how do i test the the pump is working? im assuming by a little bit of google search that the scavenge pump is a pump that pumps the oil out of the oil res?

edit: just watched a video how to do a leakdown test and the guy mentioned that if smoke comes out the throttle body it can be worn valves, sorry i forgot to mention that that did happen as well. Would you agree to that? i will do a leakdown test as well, just hoping a local parts store rents them im tired of buying tools im only gonna use once or twice haha.

The Rotax engines in the Spyders are dry sump designs, unlike most cars or trucks that are wet sump design. In a dry sump engine, the scavenge pump will take oil that has lubricated the engine and return it to the oil tank, where the primary oil pump is able to circulate it through the engine again. This is why, checking oil levels on a dry sump engine must be done after the engine has run a few minutes. These few minutes pump the oil, which will over time back drain into the engine / out of the reservoir and indicate low on oil level until started and oil is scavenged.

Other than visually inspecting, I am not aware of a test for the s avenge pump. If the oil is not removed from the dry sump areas, it could work its way past the piston / rings.

Not sure if leak down equipment is loaned or rented. Used correctly, you can quickly sort through some possible concerns.

Is there any chance you are simply seeing spooge that accumulated in the exhaust from the previous damage simply being burned off the exhaust interior parts.

Another possibility is that maybe it is not oil, but coolant.

Not being there to actually see and smell the exhaust makes it simply best guesses.
 
It won't be valves or their seats - more likely damaged rings when assembled thusly.

Thanks @pegasus1300 that trick saved me some money and worked like a charm.

The problem is no longer coming from the cylinder i repaired but the other cylinder i didnt touch.
 
The Rotax engines in the Spyders are dry sump designs, unlike most cars or trucks that are wet sump design. In a dry sump engine, the scavenge pump will take oil that has lubricated the engine and return it to the oil tank, where the primary oil pump is able to circulate it through the engine again. This is why, checking oil levels on a dry sump engine must be done after the engine has run a few minutes. These few minutes pump the oil, which will over time back drain into the engine / out of the reservoir and indicate low on oil level until started and oil is scavenged.

Other than visually inspecting, I am not aware of a test for the s avenge pump. If the oil is not removed from the dry sump areas, it could work its way past the piston / rings.

Not sure if leak down equipment is loaned or rented. Used correctly, you can quickly sort through some possible concerns.

Is there any chance you are simply seeing spooge that accumulated in the exhaust from the previous damage simply being burned off the exhaust interior parts.

Another possibility is that maybe it is not oil, but coolant.

Not being there to actually see and smell the exhaust makes it simply best guesses.

I assumed it could be spooge at first but the quickly determined it not to be. i believe its oil and not coolant however i dont know for sure. The leakdown test should tell me once im able to perform it though.
 
Sorry to say but! That engine should have been disassembled, rods, crank, pistons, pins and bearings inspected and or replaced as necessary. Cylinders deglazed at minimum, new rings and clean and magnaflux heads and lap valves minimum. Tagging a valve like that can bend rods, crush bearings, crack cylinders, valve guides etc!!
 
Sorry to say but! That engine should have been disassembled, rods, crank, pistons, pins and bearings inspected and or replaced as necessary. Cylinders deglazed at minimum, new rings and clean and magnaflux heads and lap valves minimum. Tagging a valve like that can bend rods, crush bearings, crack cylinders, valve guides etc!!

Yes and no. I do have my concerns about him posting there was metal in the filter. But going forward with a good attitude, these moto engines tend to differ in some ways than car engines. Yes they function the same, but most times on a valve impact incident, the reciprocating parts and bearings fair very well. Granted the head and valves take a beating. He replaced the head assembly. These heads being aluminum can not be magnafluxed like an iron head on a car. Like an aircraft engine head sometimes specialty shops can repair them, but in this case he got a replacement. As for deglazing the cylinder walls, Nikasil is a pretty tough surface and holds up well without glazing, add to this, you should use a diamond hone when working with Nikasil, as a conventional stone is too soft and can polish the cylinder walls making things worse.

Granted the engine may be coming out and seeing a full teardown or simpler replacement. So much of this topic reverts to speculation by us posting since we are not there to work on it ourselves. I am optimistic it will run and run well, just have my reservations about the metal contamination in the oil. From the initial time I read this topic, and even today, I still wonder if the previous owner simply over revved the engine and the valve made contact with the piston dome. Add to this, the same original owner may have run the oil low or had a habit or revving it, and trashed a bottom end bearing.

Again, I remain optimistic for this guy getting it running well, and hopefully the metal debris is simply break in residue or normal wear material. Myself, I did not see the debris and honestly do not know.
 
I assumed it could be spooge at first but the quickly determined it not to be. i believe its oil and not coolant however i dont know for sure. The leakdown test should tell me once im able to perform it though.

Coolant has a very distinctive smell. Especially if it has gone through the combustion cycle. You should be able to detect this smell in the exhaust gases if, indeed, it is coolant coming out the back.Oil also, to a lesser extent, will have a distinctive smell when burned. And if there is enough of it, it can leave a good bit of residue on cooler surfaces.

I wish you luck with this endeavor. A noble effort to be sure! It's sometimes rewarding to roll the dice. It is noteworthy that the original offending cylinder is working well. And that it is the 'New' cylinder giving you issues.

I think it very unlikely that the scavenger pumps (I believe that there are more than 1) are defective. If you have a scavenge issue, I would be more inclined to look for some kind of blockage or restriction. There is a metal mesh screen at the bottom of the reservoir. I would definitely take a look at that.
 
Coolant has a very distinctive smell. Especially if it has gone through the combustion cycle. You should be able to detect this smell in the exhaust gases if, indeed, it is coolant coming out the back.Oil also, to a lesser extent, will have a distinctive smell when burned. And if there is enough of it, it can leave a good bit of residue on cooler surfaces.

I wish you luck with this endeavor. A noble effort to be sure! It's sometimes rewarding to roll the dice. It is noteworthy that the original offending cylinder is working well. And that it is the 'New' cylinder giving you issues.

I think it very unlikely that the scavenger pumps (I believe that there are more than 1) are defective. If you have a scavenge issue, I would be more inclined to look for some kind of blockage or restriction. There is a metal mesh screen at the bottom of the reservoir. I would definitely take a look at that.

Tend to agree. However, see if it will run on two cylinders first, but cautiously. If metal contaminated the suction screens to the oil pumps, it may be more than just a scavenge pump.
 
@pmk and everyone else. I Purchased the cylinder leak tester and all seemed well with both cylinders. I then started it and ran it again and smoke started coming out almost after a few moments then I removed I remove the Y connector in back of the exhaust and started it again but this time no smoke.

When Started with exhaust y pipe remove I didn’t see any smoke. Could there just be that much build up in the muffler that’s causing smoke and any other issues?

When I removed both spark plugs the untouched cylinder was wet and black, cleaned it up and started it again and let it warm up and removed the spark plug and it remained clean. Any thoughts?
 
Yes and no. I do have my concerns about him posting there was metal in the filter. But going forward with a good attitude, these moto engines tend to differ in some ways than car engines. Yes they function the same, but most times on a valve impact incident, the reciprocating parts and bearings fair very well. Granted the head and valves take a beating. He replaced the head assembly. These heads being aluminum can not be magnafluxed like an iron head on a car. Like an aircraft engine head sometimes specialty shops can repair them, but in this case he got a replacement. As for deglazing the cylinder walls, Nikasil is a pretty tough surface and holds up well without glazing, add to this, you should use a diamond hone when working with Nikasil, as a conventional stone is too soft and can polish the cylinder walls making things worse.

Granted the engine may be coming out and seeing a full teardown or simpler replacement. So much of this topic reverts to speculation by us posting since we are not there to work on it ourselves. I am optimistic it will run and run well, just have my reservations about the metal contamination in the oil. From the initial time I read this topic, and even today, I still wonder if the previous owner simply over revved the engine and the valve made contact with the piston dome. Add to this, the same original owner may have run the oil low or had a habit or revving it, and trashed a bottom end bearing.

Again, I remain optimistic for this guy getting it running well, and hopefully the metal debris is simply break in residue or normal wear material. Myself, I did not see the debris and honestly do not know.

Actually you can do aluminum, just a slightly different process with dye and a powder material.
Yes, I believe a diamond hone is all that can be used, and it is very thin and could require a trip to Millenium. I think the main problem is not knowing the extent of damage and putting a lot of labor and money into it and still having problems. To break a cam main takes some energy! If it were me I would inspect everything and replace as necessary and freshen the rest. But that's me! Years of racing and no time to do over leads me in that direction. I wish the OP the best outcome in his project.
 
@pmk and everyone else. I Purchased the cylinder leak tester and all seemed well with both cylinders. I then started it and ran it again and smoke started coming out almost after a few moments then I removed I remove the Y connector in back of the exhaust and started it again but this time no smoke.

When Started with exhaust y pipe remove I didn’t see any smoke. Could there just be that much build up in the muffler that’s causing smoke and any other issues?

When I removed both spark plugs the untouched cylinder was wet and black, cleaned it up and started it again and let it warm up and removed the spark plug and it remained clean. Any thoughts?

This sounds possible, the rear cylinder wasn't running and then the front. could be a lot of fuel/oil in the pre-muffler, the one under the bike. If both cylinders are running let it burn off the oil.
 
This sounds possible, the rear cylinder wasn't running and then the front. could be a lot of fuel/oil in the pre-muffler, the one under the bike. If both cylinders are running let it burn off the oil.

Is there a way to reset the check engine, and limp home mode?
 
@pmk and everyone else. I Purchased the cylinder leak tester and all seemed well with both cylinders. I then started it and ran it again and smoke started coming out almost after a few moments then I removed I remove the Y connector in back of the exhaust and started it again but this time no smoke.

When Started with exhaust y pipe remove I didn’t see any smoke. Could there just be that much build up in the muffler that’s causing smoke and any other issues?

When I removed both spark plugs the untouched cylinder was wet and black, cleaned it up and started it again and let it warm up and removed the spark plug and it remained clean. Any thoughts?

You mentioned earlier no spooge, but based on this post I quoted possibly it is a spooge issue. My opinion, remove the midpipe and rear muffler. Cap the ends and give it a flush out by filling it with solvent, and draining. After it dries out a bit, reinstall and run the bike for short intervals until the solvent evaporates.

Want to add, what you did with the plugs sounds good. I would consider keeping an eye on them until the exhaust despooges and dries out. After that, if it seems good, give it an easy test ride near home.

Sounds like you will have it dialed in shortly. Make sure you replace those two vacuum hoses too.
 
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