New Toy Hauler for Darth & Psycho

[Phil]

I spent a lot of time researching, and many of you helped answer my incessent questions . Thanks to everyone's help, here is the result. The pics focus on the camera system. There are 3 cameras, on the back and one on each side. In the cab, it is a VERY simple plug in to the lighter 12v outlet. Once the cameras are paired, away we go! I'll be posing the pics gradually....

 

[Chupaca]

Very nice..!!

but where is Darth and Phsyco..?? what do they say..?? :roflblack::roflblack: it is very nice...:2thumbs:

 

[Kwalsh]

Nice trailer

That's a sweet trailer but it seems heavy for that car? What's the weight of it?

 

[Ben Burped]

Excellent

Dude, you never fail to amaze me. The cameras are well thought out. The trailer is also very nice. Thank you for all that you share with us on spyderlovers.

 

[Phil]

That's a sweet trailer but it seems heavy for that car? What's the weight of it?

I've had quite a number of people ask same question. The trailer is 2700. Add 2 RTs at 950 each and you get about 4600lb. The vehicle is a Hyundai Santa Fe Limited with factory towing package good for 5000lb. I was just looking for the manual (can't find it right now) and I swear that the rating increases to 6500lb if the trailer has electric brakes. I added the controller and the trailer has electric brakes.

I pulled it from Indianapolis to Tyler (empty) and there was plenty of power IF I kept the speed to about 65. At 70-75, it would shift down and RPM would go to 5000 on steep hills.

I'm going to put both Darth & Psycho in, tie them down, and give it a test run in a week or so. IF there is any issue, my son-in-law is reay to loan us their big diesel truck

 

[jaherbst]

I've had quite a number of people ask same question. The trailer is 2700. Add 2 RTs at 950 each and you get about 4600lb. The vehicle is a Hyundai Santa Fe Limited with factory towing package good for 5000lb. I was just looking for the manual (can't find it right now) and I swear that the rating increases to 6500lb if the trailer has electric brakes. I added the controller and the trailer has electric brakes.

I pulled it from Indianapolis to Tyler (empty) and there was plenty of power IF I kept the speed to about 65. At 70-75, it would shift down and RPM would go to 5000 on steep hills.

I'm going to put both Darth & Psycho in, tie them down, and give it a test run in a week or so. IF there is any issue, my son-in-law is reay to loan us their big diesel truck

What is the little white box in the V-nose with the pipe for?

Jack

 

[Phil]

What is the little white box in the V-nose with the pipe for?

Jack

Battery. The normal backup battery for the electric brakes (break away) is much smaller. I wanted one that runs all of the lights, cameras, chargers, etc. if for about 1-2 hours without being connected to the vehicle. This one will definately do that. The pipe is a vent to the outside for any possible battery gasses. Or.... it's a small vacuum cleaner.

 

[lionking]

Trailer

Could you tell me about the cameras. What set up are they. Do they come in a set? Great idea. I want one for my trailer!!!! :yes:

 

[Phil]

Could you tell me about the cameras. What set up are they. Do they come in a set? Great idea. I want one for my trailer!!!! :yes:

I went through a couple of suppliers, but landed on these guys-
http://www.rearviewsafety.com/products/wireless-systems/wireless-backup-camera-system.html
It handles up to 4 cameras, wirelessly. The installation simplicity is flawless. The in vehicle monitor has one wire- a cigarette lighter plug. Others had loads of extra stuff to make it wireless. It was a jumble of wires in the vehicle.

You can get the monitor and the backup cam for about $350. Each side cam is $150.

 

[MisterP]

I've had quite a number of people ask same question. The trailer is 2700. Add 2 RTs at 950 each and you get about 4600lb. The vehicle is a Hyundai Santa Fe Limited with factory towing package good for 5000lb. I was just looking for the manual (can't find it right now) and I swear that the rating increases to 6500lb if the trailer has electric brakes. I added the controller and the trailer has electric brakes.

I pulled it from Indianapolis to Tyler (empty) and there was plenty of power IF I kept the speed to about 65. At 70-75, it would shift down and RPM would go to 5000 on steep hills.

I'm going to put both Darth & Psycho in, tie them down, and give it a test run in a week or so. IF there is any issue, my son-in-law is reay to loan us their big diesel truck

Electric brakes do not increase the towing capacity of a vehicle. Without electric brakes, your Hyundai is only rated to tow 2000 lbs. That is the difference the brakes have.

We are all adults here, and I am not lecturing you. But, an important part of towing anything is doing the math. Why? Because, if you ever have an accident with your trailer attached, some lawyer is going to do the crunching I am about to do. You are potentially liable if they prove you towed over the rated capacity of the equipment. It's no different than failing to hook up the safety chains, you are the owner of the vehicle.

A quick search for a 2015 Hyundai Santa Fe Limited shows its empty weight to be about 4000 lbs. There is a slight variation for FWD vs AWD.

The important number is the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). Once again, slight variation for type of drive. So, that means you have about 1500 lbs. for you and the family, gas, oil, all the stuff you carry in the car, and wait - you have a trailer attached, so you have to add the tongue weight of the trailer hooked to the back of your car. The 2015 shows a fuel capacity of 18.8 gallons. 18.8x6=112.8. Subtract that from the 1500 lbs available, and you have 1387. Let's say about 1300 lbs to take into account the car battery, oil, and radiator fluid.

Tongue weight can only be confirmed on a truck scale, but a reasonable rule of thumb is 10-15 percent of the loaded trailer weight. That's the trailer, your two rides, the nice camera and big backup battery and so forth. Let's assume you are correct at 4600 lbs. I think that is low, but I'm not there. Your tongue weight is going to be at least 500 lbs. I could stop here, because on most vehicles I have had, the receiver tongue weight rating is 10 percent of the rated tow capacity. There is also a number for your Hyundai that is harder to find, but out there. That is the rear axle rated capacity, and I'm pretty sure you have exceeded it.

Taking the 500 from 1300, you have 800 lbs., or probably less, for you and the family, and the stuff you carry on your trip. Move it to the trailer? Won't work, because I suspect you used published empty weights for your rides, and they are a bit heavier than that. I suspect you will already be over 5000 lbs. for the trailer without adding anything else.

You may never have an accident with this setup, as we all hope we won't. But you will wear out your Hyundai a lot sooner towing this much trailer. Your comments about how it shifted are a clue to that. I do hope you installed a good proportional brake controller, like a Tekonsha Prodigy 3. Set the boost to at least level 2 for the trailer to help stop you. Also test the controller so it activates first when you hit the brakes. You don't want your trailer pushing you to a stop.

 

[jaherbst]

Battery. The normal backup battery for the electric brakes (break away) is much smaller. I wanted one that runs all of the lights, cameras, chargers, etc. if for about 1-2 hours without being connected to the vehicle. This one will definately do that. The pipe is a vent to the outside for any possible battery gasses. Or.... it's a small vacuum cleaner.

Thanks Phil, great idea. I have a LOOK VISION that is all finished inside. We can compare trailers at the Holiday Inn!

Jack

 

[HedonismBot]

I'm confused. It clearly says in the screen capture you posted that the maximum trailer weight for the Limited with electric brakes is 5k lbs. It also expressly says that in the description just above the two images as well. He has electric brakes and should fall below the 5k threshold. Where's the problem again?

You're saying that you must subtract the gross weight of the vehicle from the trailer's weight to determine what you can tow? That's definitely not the language Hyundai is using when it says when prepped right the Limited can tow "up to 5,000 lbs." It doesn't say up to 5,000 but minus the weight of the car being loaded with people and gear. It implies that independently of the vehicle, one can tow up to 5,000lbs if you meet said requirements. They're either lying or being incredibly obtuse. I wouldn't think their lawyers would let that slide.

 

[ARtraveler]

Very nice looking trailer. That one should "get er done." :2thumbs:

 

[MisterP]

I'm confused. It clearly says in the screen capture you posted that the maximum trailer weight for the Limited with electric brakes is 5k lbs. It also expressly says that in the description just above the two images as well. He has electric brakes and should fall below the 5k threshold. Where's the problem again?

You're saying that you must subtract the gross weight of the vehicle from the trailer's weight to determine what you can tow? That's definitely not the language Hyundai is using when it says when prepped right the Limited can tow "up to 5,000 lbs." It doesn't say up to 5,000 but minus the weight of the car being loaded with people and gear. It implies that independently of the vehicle, one can tow up to 5,000lbs if you meet said requirements. They're either lying or being incredibly obtuse. I wouldn't think their lawyers would let that slide.

I didn't say that. All vehicles have a gross vehicle weight capacity. It might be on a placard on the driver's door, or published in the owner's manual.

I said you have to subtract the tongue weight for the trailer, estimated at 500 lbs. or greater, from the GVWR, minus the empty weight of the car. This gives you the remaining capacity of people, luggage, fluids and so forth.

I also didn't say or imply anyone is lying, I am stating the facts about how to calculate the real towing capacity of any vehicle versus the manufacturer's stated capacity. It doesn't take much to exceed it.

Do your own search for discussions on the topic, I would expect those interested in the subject to do that. I am only stating my experience from owning a variety of trailers and tow vehicles.

A good description of towing criteria and definitions can be found at http://www.rvguide.com/reviews/the-abcs-of-towing-1186.html

 

[Phil]

Thanks Mr. P

I'm the first to admit that I welcome all of the help. On trailering, I am not an expert.

1- I did find the Santa Fe manual later, after the post and it pretty much states what the image that Mr. P shows. 5000 is THE trailer limit WITH brakes. Period. And as the manual states it like the image- 'MAXIMUM TRAILER WEIGHT'. I get that the tongue weight needs to be part of the weight included in the GVWR calculation.

2- Thanks for the controller tip. One of the FIRST things I did after connecting the trailer was to pull into a nearly empty parking lot and adjust the controller. I got to about 20mph, pressed the slider and adjusted the wheel. Mine looks like this: http://www.southwestwheel.com/store...87&SEName=tekonsha-primus-iq-brake-controller ... (the one you suggested) and it is VERY simple to adjust. I do have it set where I can feel the trailer braking ahead of the Santa Fe.

3- Tongue weight- The Santa Fe manual agrees with the 10% of load going on the tongue. So I'm guessing they rated it at 500lbs down force. I can say that empty, I can lift the tongue of the trailer a little bit. It's heavy, mind you, but liftable. When it settled on the hitch for the first time, the Santa Fe went down about 2" max. When I was working with the manufacturer on the design, I sent them the total Spyder RT specs including CanAm's approved trailering method. The mfg tells me they have placed the axles so that the tongue will correctly balance out with the 10% or less for both RTs being loaded, nose first. I have a friend with an industrial scale (up to 1000lb). I'm going to try to borrow it, and put it under the front tongue prop to get unloaded and loaded tongue weights.

4- When I was on flat terrain, some buffeting wind, at 65mph, the Santa Fe would even shift up to overdrive for extended periods. It would NOT do this at 75mph. I can count the times that it shifted down (where the RPM went to 5k) in the entire trip and that was 6 times. After I figured out the pattern, I lowered my speed to 60-65 (also recommended in the Santa Fe manual). The engine temp never budged from it's normal position. I also looked at the engine oil and while it is not clear (we now have about 6500 miles on this vehicle, 800 of which are with the trailer), it did not have a burned smell. I looked for the transmission stick to look at its fluid and never found it. We will be doing a maximum of 4 trailering trips / year at about 1600 total miles, per trip.

5- Proof will be in the trying. In about a week I'll be loading it up and giving it a solid test run. AND remember that I still have the offer of the big truck from our son-in-law which I may still do.

I'm NOT a fan of accidents due to mechanical failure (or anything else for that matter). I can see wearing out the Santa Fe sooner than if I didn't tow at all or with just 2000lbs. All of what you say makes sense and thank you for taking your time to help keep my wife and I safe!

 

[MisterP]

Good feedback, thanks for reading my post. I am not criticizing anyone, just trying to educate from years of towing.

Most trailer tires are speed rated for 65 mph (it will say ST along with the tire size on the side). I would not suggest exceeding that for long periods. They are not built the same as car tires, and can come apart at higher speeds. One description can be found at http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=219

I am not familiar with the Tekonsha Primas controller, but the description seems to indicate it operates the same as the Prodigy 2 or 3 I have owned. Tekonsha controllers are nice because they don't have to be level to the road to operate correctly, one of the few on the market that works that way. It is important to line them up facing the front of the vehicle, since the accelerometer inside works correctly if facing directly at the front of the vehicle (or lined up in the direction you are traveling, if you prefer).

One suggestion - consider turning off the Hyundai overdrive if you can. I have a button on the end of the shifter for the Ford Expedition I own. I have learned to not use overdrive, and at 64 mph I tow, the Ford is running about 2300 rpm. It only shifts down on overpasses here in FL, which cuts down on the wear and tear on the transmission. Offering that FWIW.

 

[millers1]

Nice trailer and camera setup. I'd love to see some pix of how you tie the bikes down to those rails.
Maybe I missed it.. what's the dimensions of that trailer?

 

[Phil]

Nice trailer and camera setup. I'd love to see some pix of how you tie the bikes down to those rails.
Maybe I missed it.. what's the dimensions of that trailer?

I'll get some pics when I load and tie down.
SPECS- 18' long (needed for the 2 RTs) ; 6'11" exterior box width; 8'6" axle width; 6' interior width; 5'6" interior ceiling; eTrack width- 5' 6" (RT is 5'2"); 7 additional floor mounted D rings (5klbs capacity); Axle center = 62%; 2"x3" 11ga main tubes; Dexter E-Z lube Torsion Axles; Spring loaded ramp door; Radial tires; Z-Tech undercoated frame; 2 rear drop down jacks; Mfg= Bravo.

 

[900Dave]

First, nice trailer.

Second, borrow the truck or get another vehicle. If you are not over capacity you are definately pushing its limits. I am in no way telling you what to do. But I tow a lot, my heaviest trailer is close to 15000 lbs and I have never had an issue. But the first thing I did was buy a vehicle that was well over the capacity of what I wanted to tow.

Enjoy, and be safe.

 

[jaherbst]

First, nice trailer.

Second, borrow the truck or get another vehicle. If you are not over capacity you are definately pushing its limits. I am in no way telling you what to do. But I tow a lot, my heaviest trailer is close to 15000 lbs and I have never had an issue. But the first thing I did was buy a vehicle that was well over the capacity of what I wanted to tow.

Enjoy, and be safe.

Got to agree with that. Very extensive experience with towing trailers behind numerous vehicles.

First problem is when you are pushing the limits of the vehicle your are really straining the transmission. Never tow in high gear/overdrive when close to these limits. Constantly shifting back an forth will ruin the transmission in short order.

Biggest problem you are going to face is summer and hills. I assume you have a transmission cooler- Separate radiator to cool trans. fluid.

I presently have three trailers for various purposes. A good rule of thumb is never exceed the max towing weight of the trailer by 2/3. That leaves you a 30% pad for hills, summer heat etc. The manufacturers really stretch the envelope to sell vehicles. There ratings are based on this. Well I could go on and on from all the lessons I have learned through the years the hard way and it was said in a earlier post That you are stretching the limits. Towing trailers is not an exact science even if your sales person would like you to believe it is. Remember that 30% pad below maximum and you will be very very happy. Don't mean to lecture, just trying to help you prevent a large problem.

I have towed across Texas many times and there is a lot of heat and hills. Remember the slower you go the better off you will be for now. Besides it will save you a lot of gas as you will find out.

Jack