New Problem w Sprocket and Extended Warranty

[jimcrom]

While driving to work the other day, when I accelerated, the engine would race but the spyder wouldn't speed up. I was able to safely get it to a local store. I called Geico and they had it towed it to my dealer. (thank goodness for the towing rider on the policy)

The following is communication between Carlo, the dealer and extended warranty.

Carlo, it has been a year since I had my last problem with the Spyder and the engine. Now the transmission/main output shaft sprocket has went out. I had it towed to Clawson Motorsports (130 miles away) and have been in contact with Rob Ray. He will be able to fill you in on the details. I just received notice that the claim is being denied by the extended warranty company saying that it is normal wear & tear. Rob cannot understand their logic and decision.

Among the concerns is that I purchased my Spyder from San Luis Motorsports, when I purchased the Spyder I specifically asked about extended warranty and they sold me a third party warranty. I had asked at the time if BRP had a warranty and they told me that they work with this third party. Of course their warranty is $1600 so the profit margin is a lot higher than if San Luis Motorsports sold a BRP warranty. Next San Luis Motorsports loses their dealership which means the closest dealer goes from 80 miles to 130 miles. I have also included pictures of the engine replacement that include the failure of San Luis Motorsports to make sure that all engine bolts were tightened, San Luis Motorsports did the 600 mile check up. It was during this time that you informed me that San Luis lost their franchise. You also offered to provide me with a reimbursement because of the need for the 600 mile break in. I never submitted the paperwork. Next Clawson Motorsports failed to see the bolt when they did the next oil change at 16000 miles. It wasn't until the last oil change (19000) where I had the oil changed by Benny's Cycle Center that he saw the problem with the bolt. You couldn't miss it if you were doing an oil change, but some how it was missed three times by an authorized dealer. My only hope is that it did no lasting damage.

At this point the key issue is fixing the sprocket. I am now in the third week of not having the Spyder. The bolt issue while frustrating at this point seems to be the least of my problems. Thank-you for your time and consideration.

The following information is provided.

2008 w/19,000+ miles on it
Spyder VIN 2BXJACA198V001263

Purchased and serviced initially by:

San Luis Motorsports
6 Higuera Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93401
Phone 805-541-2200
Fax 805-541-0250

New dealer as recommended by BRP:

CLAWSON MOTORSPORTS
6334 North Blackstone, Fresno, CA 93710
Tel.: 559.435.5020

This is an email I got from Clawson after the initial denial.

Jim,

Here is the email that I sent to Greg at Western Service on 10/13/10.
Also, just talked to Greg, he has not heard back fromt the comittee that is reviewing this case, but said if he has not heard back by tomorrow evening that he will get in touch with them and get an update.

Thanks again for being patient,

Rob
559-435-5020

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Robert Ray <[email protected]>
Date: Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 6:00 PM
Subject: AF6 2001775, Claim # 9082330

To whom it may concern:

This email is in response to Claim # 9082330 being declined. This unit was brought in with a complaint that power was lost immediatly, not a "Gradual Reduction in Operating Performance" as stated in the letter declining repair. While WSC Corp is clear on "DRIVE CHAIN and/or SPROCKETS" and "Any Repair Occurring from a Gradual Reduction in Operating Performance, due to Wear and Tear" this was not the case with Mr. Cromarty's 2008 Can-Am Spyder. In this case power was lost immediatly from failure of either the internal splines on front drive pulley or from output shaft spline failure on shaft itself. Regardless of which part failed the drive pulley INTERNAL splines are not considered a wear item. Also it was noted by A.Cohn that, "front sprocket mounting bolt was tight and did not loosen easily." So there was also no chance of neglect on the customers part in not maintaining unit. In this case there is no reason besides a defective part to be blamed. We request that this Claim be re-investigated and that WSC reconsiders repairing this unit for Mr. Cromarty.

Thank you for your time.

--
Robert Ray
Service Representative
559-435-5020 ex.345
559-435-2860 fax
www.clawsonmotorsports.com

According to Carlo at BRP if this was under BRP warranty this would be covered. I guess what I am saying/asking is make sure that you get the BRP warranty and not a third party warranty or you could end up like me.

Right now I am waiting for a response from the extended warranty company.

 

[stevedfive]

I have heard many stories like yours, I will be cancelling my WSC contract and buying a BRP BEST extended service contract. Thank you for sharing.

 

[tweeder]

I don't understand the part of "neglect of the customer for not maintaining the unit". Most of us are not a certified can am spyder tech. So how are we supposed to know that somethings wrong, until it goes wrong, then we bring it in only to be denied because we didn't get it in before it "broke". I guess we better bring the bikes in once a day for a full once over so as to not be neglectful.

 

[bone crusher]

I'm very surprised that dealership sold you a non-BRP warranty...what a bunch of crooks...you end up losing two times...paying too much for a crappy warranty and not getting the help when you need it.

Can you put any heat on the other warranty company?

 

[SethO]

you are # 10 or more that has had this problem as a member. I ran into some trouble with this,it was more the dealership I was working with than brp's deal. this is what caused the reduction in belt tension.

 

[docdoru]

you are # 10 or more that has had this problem as a member. I ran into some trouble with this,it was more the dealership I was working with than brp's deal. this is what caused the reduction in belt tension.

:agree: see http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22605

 

[jimcrom]

I have attached the segment of the initial denial. I understand brake pads, tires and the like not being covered but something "inside" the engine/trans that I don't have any "control" over should be covered.

I don't understand the part of "neglect of the customer for not maintaining the unit". Most of us are not a certified can am spyder tech. So how are we supposed to know that somethings wrong, until it goes wrong, then we bring it in only to be denied because we didn't get it in before it "broke". I guess we better bring the bikes in once a day for a full once over so as to not be neglectful.

 

[jimcrom]

I am sure that the profit margin on the non BRP warranty is a lot higher. San Luis is no longer a BRP dealer. Don't know why. In this case since Western didn't build it they don't have a vested interest in the repair.

I am sure it can't be good when someone says "well I had the engine rebuilt at 12,000 miles and now the splines/trans went out at 19,000 and there was a recall regarding the steering. There is also a premium on maintenance. Yep the Spyder is a great machine.

I love my spyder but this is frustrating and I have heard people in worse situations. Carlo at BRP said if I had the BRP warranty this issue would be covered. It also doesn't help that with the shrinkage in the number of dealers due to the economy and whatever that there is not a dealer that is local. I am still thankful for the Gieco towing rider. I don't even want to think about the cost of towing to the dealer. I don't do mechanics so having service repair nearby is critical to me, it doesn't help when it goes from 80 miles (which was still too far) to 140 miles over the mountains.

I'm very surprised that dealership sold you a non-BRP warranty...what a bunch of crooks...you end up losing two times...paying too much for a crappy warranty and not getting the help when you need it.

Can you put any heat on the other warranty company?

 

[jimcrom]

I wonder if this had anything to do with the failure of my spyder.

:agree: see http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22605

 

[Dudley]

If it was never tightened, it could very well be the reason for your problem. Seems like if you had your services done by dealer and this was never addressed, you may have something to fall back on. Just my thoughts.

 

[Firefly]

Also remember that BRP decided to lower our belt tensions. This is well documented. This alone should be reason enough for BRP to cover your failure in my opinion.

BRP warranty is the BEST (pun intended) way to go.

 

[jimcrom]

I had wondered about that and raised the issue with Carlo but he was taking the position that since it was out of the BRP warranty I needed to raise that issue with Western.
Carlo did say that if I had the BRP warranty it would be covered. I just want to ride my spyder.
If it is not under warranty I still haven't heard what the cost would be to fix it.

Also remember that BRP decided to lower our belt tensions. This is well documented. This alone should be reason enough for BRP to cover your failure in my opinion.

BRP warranty is the BEST (pun intended) way to go.

 

[docdoru]

If it is not under warranty I still haven't heard what the cost would be to fix it.

opcorn:

 

[Jornie1]

Best Warranty in Florida

I was told directly by my dealer and Stephane Bertrand BRP District Sales Manager that BRP BEST warranty was not available in the state of Florida after March 19th 2010. I was also told that the only extended warranty for Can Am products was through a third party source. The 3rd party extended warranty offered to me was "Interstate National Dealer Services Of Florida Inc". It actually "looks good on paper". I'm still considering the offer. That particular extended warranty will be available to me until the original manufacturer's warranty expires.... Not withstanding any price increases while I decide.... Len

 

[jimcrom]

I wonder if Florida looks at extended warranty as a type of insurance that is regulated with a State agency and that is why it is not being offered in Florida.
I have been looking at California and the Department of Insurance. There is a fair claims handling law but the problem is going to be proving that there is a problem that should be covered and then hoping an undermanned over stressed State Agency will do something. ray:

I was told directly by my dealer and Stephane Bertrand BRP District Sales Manager that BRP BEST warranty was not available in the state of Florida after March 19th 2010. I was also told that the only extended warranty for Can Am products was through a third party source. The 3rd party extended warranty offered to me was "Interstate National Dealer Services Of Florida Inc". It actually "looks good on paper". I'm still considering the offer. That particular extended warranty will be available to me until the original manufacturer's warranty expires.... Not withstanding any price increases while I decide.... Len

 

[NancysToy]

I wonder if Florida looks at extended warranty as a type of insurance that is regulated with a State agency and that is why it is not being offered in Florida.

That is correct.

 

[BajaRon]

Sounds like the problem lies with the 3rd party warranty provider at this point. They are in business to 1-Sell warranty policiies and 2-To keep from actually paying anything out on a policy.

Professional mechanics paid to check out your machine and certify it's sound mechanical condition failed to do their job but it is the warranty company that needs to pursue this, not the customer paying for coverage.

While the front pulley is considered a 'Wear' part, it is completely ridiculous to assert that the spline is part of any wear component. This is catastrophic failure, not deteriorization due to wear.

Wear is caused by moving friction, one part moving against another, gear on gear, balls or rollers in a bearing (or in the case of a tire, rubber moving against pavement). This type of friction causes wear.

Mated machined surfaces, (spline to spline) also have friction, but it is a static, non moving, non wear friction. Every wear part on the Spyder should fail before the splines on the sprocket fail.

Unless you modify the power plant so that it exceeds the engineered capability of the sprocket splines, there should be no issue with a warranty replacement.

I’d hammer on these guys until they get it right.

 

[jimcrom]

Cost of repairs

Well I got the estimate, but was unable to upload it due to the file size limitations. But this is what was quoted.

420885480 SV SVP GASKET SET 210.99
420620612 sv SVP SHAFT-MAIN WSEAL 164.99
705500744 SV SVP SPROCKET 28 TE 58.99
293600121 (5) SD LUB 4T SEMI-SYNTH OIL QRT 47.45 CHEMICALS
201 (1) MI ACC COOLANT 50/50 BLEND 1 GAL 11.95 SHOP

Total including tax: $588.74

Replace Main/Output Shaft and needed parts
14.0 Job Hrs
$89 labor per hour
$1246 labor
$540 parts
$1786 job total
$356 original est
$1788 additional amount
$2142 revised estimate

opcorn:

 

[Firefly]

This is total BS. Really sorry for your problems.

1. BRP released a new belt tension spec.
2. BRP released a new sprocket tension spec.

This tells me that someone decided there were 2 problems.

Your situation certainly is NOT a normal wear problem.

So how many miles from the time that the sprocket was installed to the time the loose bolt was noticed?

You might want to do a detailed timeline of all your maintenance..

12/12/09 Oil change @ bobs
01/01/10 New Engine @ teds

And so on. The more detailed you can be - the better. Then I would compare your timeline to the release dates of the various updates and changed specs on belts and bolts.

So it's the 3rd party warranty company that won't pay and says this is normal wear?

It sounds like you got a new engine at some point? What was the factory warranty on that install?

You have multiple factors here and it's difficult to figure out who should be responsible for what... and then decide who (if anyone) you can go after.

 

[Arthur---Mexico]

splines and oil

I do not know what material is used for the final drive sprocket on my Spyder but it must be the same as all. If it's aluminum the drive sprocket is of inferior quality. I have cut thousands of splines in my factory and the fit is extremely important. An internal spline in an aluminum bore that fits on a male spline cut on a steel shaft is doomed to failure. Well designed gears with with bores with internal splines are made of much more resistant materials than alumininum of any grade. A well designed aluminum drive sprocket should be cast around a cast iron center that has its internal spline correctly cut into it after machining, turning it on a lathe. A gasoline engine does not produce a constant movement because of the rotary pulsing of the engine movemment. Any excessive play, clearance, between the male and female teeth; a pulsing rotary movement will play havoc on the softer component's teeth. In this case it's the aluminum internal teeth.

Now I will have to check on the tighness of the drive pulley's securing bolt on my Spyder. That bolt is suppose to hold the sprocket from slipping off the the end of the shaft it's mounted on. It's not supposed to transmit rotary movement.

Another point. Be aware of oils that are a synthetic mix. Use only 100% synthtic oil in your Spyder. Mixes can be any proportion. 1% to 99% is a mix of 99% of non synthetic oil and 1% of synthetic oil.