new lazer alingment

[Zygos]

Freedom Cycle Concord NH has one

we need one in the northeast. how much and where to buy one,

 

[MouthPiece]

Where in east central FL can we get this done

I believe, but don't hold me to this, Ormand Beach or North Daytona.

Chris PS: [Edit: I stand corrected. Edgewater, Flarda. (Just south of New Smyrna or north of Mims)] http://www.microalignment.com/Recognizing_Problem.htm

 

[FLAspydergirl]

freedom Cycle

we need one in the northeast. how much and where to buy one,

Zygos is correct Freedom Cycle, Concord NH just received their True Laser Track Spyder Laser System Monday July 29th, ask for Andy and tell him you saw info on Spyder lovers forum. As business owners they want feedback as to where riders heard about this process and these dealers are really pioneers to buy a product that has yet to be endorsed by the factory..we at True Laser track feel blessed that Lamonster and these dealers have seen the benefit and are more than willing to give Spyder riders a more relaxed ride !!

 

[FLAspydergirl]

Laser Spyder alignment

Can a user purchase this?
The web page here:
http://www.truelasertrack.com/

Suggests a user can? Checking some of the pricing for cars etc, it seems reasonable price and someone could make that back doing local alignments for people.

Bob

Finless, my first suggestion is to ask your local Spyder dealer to purchase system they will get their investment back in just 15 alignments or less BUT there is no reason an individual cannot purchase the system...if that person had a lot of friends or a club that he could service it would eventually pay for itself BUT that person needs to have a pretty good understanding of chassis setup and geometry...Mike Loescher the inventor thinks the process is so simple but to me as a bystander the process seems to make my head spin!

 

[FLAspydergirl]

laser align has to be LOADED

Thanks, Lamont! That is good information. How long have they been using this process?

Old Dog and fellow Spyder riders, using lasers to align at the factory is a “given” they should be using Some type of laser at the factory….the problem comes in at the local dealer level. What we are seeing is ALL of the 2013 models have BUMP STEER. The older models do not seem to have these problems but when the 2013 series was created the geometry got changed which created BUMP STEER. Bump Steer is the relationship between the lower control arm and the tie rod angles, if they are not parallel when the suspension moves it turns the wheel( by itself without the driver doing it) … “the result” it changes the “toe” which gives a scary ride.

In english what this means is the Spyder has to be aligned with the weight of the rider ON IT…so the buyer/rider had better be sitting on the Spyder when it is laser aligned.

So all in all…laser alignment by True Laser Track would only benefit CanAm at the dealer level….really not at the factory.

With that being said if the Spyder Motorcycle is resold to a Lighter "weight" driver it has to be re-aligned. The weight of the driver is crucial to exact laser alignment. This is where good records come in to play. All Spyder alignments that are done in Edgewater leave here with scrub sheets before and after

 

[OldDog]

Great explanation!

Old Dog and fellow Spyder riders, using lasers to align at the factory is a “given” they should be using Some type of laser at the factory….the problem comes in at the local dealer level. What we are seeing is ALL of the 2013 models have BUMP STEER. The older models do not seem to have these problems but when the 2013 series was created the geometry got changed which created BUMP STEER. Bump Steer is the relationship between the lower control arm and the tie rod angles, if they are not parallel when the suspension moves it turns the wheel( by itself without the driver doing it) … “the result” it changes the “toe” which gives a scary ride.

In english what this means is the Spyder has to be aligned with the weight of the rider ON IT…so the buyer/rider had better be sitting on the Spyder when it is laser aligned.

So all in all…laser alignment by True Laser Track would only benefit CanAm at the dealer level….really not at the factory.

With that being said if the Spyder Motorcycle is resold to a Lighter "weight" driver it has to be re-aligned. The weight of the driver is crucial to exact laser alignment. This is where good records come in to play. All Spyder alignments that are done in Edgewater leave here with scrub sheets before and after

Thank you so much! This will clear up a lot of the confusion regarding alignment and the loosy goosy feeling on the 2013 models. This has been an enlightening and educational thread. This raises another question. Should every dealer be required to have an alignment system, and should alignment be part of the purchase price of the new Spyder? The bike must be aligned to the weight range of the individual rider, evidently.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

EVERYTHING IS A COMPROMISE

Old Dog and fellow Spyder riders, using lasers to align at the factory is a “given” they should be using Some type of laser at the factory….the problem comes in at the local dealer level. What we are seeing is ALL of the 2013 models have BUMP STEER. The older models do not seem to have these problems but when the 2013 series was created the geometry got changed which created BUMP STEER. Bump Steer is the relationship between the lower control arm and the tie rod angles, if they are not parallel when the suspension moves it turns the wheel( by itself without the driver doing it) … “the result” it changes the “toe” which gives a scary ride.

In english what this means is the Spyder has to be aligned with the weight of the rider ON IT…so the buyer/rider had better be sitting on the Spyder when it is laser aligned.

So all in all…laser alignment by True Laser Track would only benefit CanAm at the dealer level….really not at the factory.

With that being said if the Spyder Motorcycle is resold to a Lighter "weight" driver it has to be re-aligned. The weight of the driver is crucial to exact laser alignment. This is where good records come in to play. All Spyder alignments that are done in Edgewater leave here with scrub sheets before and after

The above heading is a fact of life....and BRP could /should put a 200 lb weight on the Spyder and then do the alignment.....In the racing world the car is set-up for a SPECIFIC DRIVER and his/her dimensions......In the real world this is not practical...it is doable to compensate for all changes ,....However I estimate the cost for that alone would be 5 times the original cost of the Spyder.....So this is not happening.....I absolutely agree that a PERFECTLY ALIGNED Spyder is the IDEAL however if the usual operator looses 10 lbs the alignment is NO LONGER PERFECT......But in real terms does it have to be ? ? ?....Does putting a passenger or your Spyder so mess up the alignment that you are now in DANGER or your tires are going to WEAR out 10,000 miles sooner....I don't think so...As soon as I can locate someone that has one of your LASERS I will have my 08 GS done. My 2011 RSS is already darn near perfect (LUCKY ME ) so I don't want that touched............I do have a question ?????....The perfect LASER ALIGNMENT is perfect while it's NOT MOVING......WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE SUSPENSION GOES UP AND DOWN....................ANSWER ............THE ALIGNMENT CHANGES..............IMHO....Mike....PS Thanks for coming to market with a great product, and I'm being totally honest :thumbup:

 

[FLAlaserman]

damn close to perfect

The above heading is a fact of life....and BRP could /should put a 200 lb weight on the Spyder and then do the alignment.....In the racing world the car is set-up for a SPECIFIC DRIVER and his/her dimensions......In the real world this is not practical...it is doable to compensate for all changes ,....However I estimate the cost for that alone would be 5 times the original cost of the Spyder.....So this is not happening.....I absolutely agree that a PERFECTLY ALIGNED Spyder is the IDEAL however if the usual operator looses 10 lbs the alignment is NO LONGER PERFECT......But in real terms does it have to be ? ? ?....Does putting a passenger or your Spyder so mess up the alignment that you are now in DANGER or your tires are going to WEAR out 10,000 miles sooner....I don't think so...As soon as I can locate someone that has one of your LASERS I will have my 08 GS done. My 2011 RSS is already darn near perfect (LUCKY ME ) so I don't want that touched............I do have a question ?????....The perfect LASER ALIGNMENT is perfect while it's NOT MOVING......WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE SUSPENSION GOES UP AND DOWN....................ANSWER ............THE ALIGNMENT CHANGES..............IMHO....Mike....PS Thanks for coming to market with a great product, and I'm being totally honest :thumbup:

BlueKnight:You seem to have a lot of racing knowledge, and yes in the racing world we do computer scale the race car to the specific drivers weight and YES that is not possible at the race shop that builds the race cars…they just get them CLOSE…once you purchase that race car THEN YOU start tweaking it…and that is where we cross our T’s and dot our I’s. In the 20 years that we have had the race school ,all of my 14 race cars handled different and yet each one was built the same, with the same tires and same set up…how could this be? It was contact patch….the small patch of rubber that hits the race track and by inventing the True Laser Track system I was able to cut down the tire scrub per lap…less drag more speed. On the race track that means taking the checkered flag and increase tire wear means less pit stops . That was the key..we beat the stopwatch.

BlueKnight, keep in mind we still have drag… just LESS…I laser aligned a 2011 RSS Saturday with old toe at .094 it dragged the tires 270 inches in one mile with new toe at .021 he now will drag the tires 60 inches in one mile .

So yes the factory COULD put 200Ilbs on the Spyder to get it CLOSE but the final tweaking is going to be up to the dealer OR someone that knows what the heck they are doing. A rider losing 10 pounds is NOT going to change the laser alignment but a rider losing 100 pounds will, and I am not saying it will be a dangerous ride what I am saying is take advantage of saving money by going back to your dealer and spent $100 getting your Spyder re aligned…it is peace of mind…..it is saving tires and fuel mileage.

If you are a perfect freak just buy the Laser System and re check your Spyder every week but if you are a normal rider once a year maybe? Or when you hit a pot hole…this is just another TOOL to help maintain a smooth and safe ride..it is not perfect but it is damn close…

 

[FLAlaserman]

dealers should have laser alignment system

Thank you so much! This will clear up a lot of the confusion regarding alignment and the loosy goosy feeling on the 2013 models. This has been an enlightening and educational thread. This raises another question. Should every dealer be required to have an alignment system, and should alignment be part of the purchase price of the new Spyder? The bike must be aligned to the weight range of the individual rider, evidently.

Old Dog:

My wife I attended our first 2013 Spyder owners event in Maggie Valley and was amazed to find out that most riders where miffed at their dealers for not having more involvement in solving Spyder issues ie darting, heat issues etc. Everyone we talked to said the dealer would just brush them off.

I do not know the profit margin between BRP and the dealer BUT as a business owner I seek out any tool that will make my job easier and have positive results with my customer. The TLT system is made in the USA and guaranteed for life…so why would a dealer not have one? I dunno.

I do everything in my power to have happy customers, in fact I am a private race coach where I travel to a drivers track and work with them and their race car with the GUARANTEE to make the race car faster or they don’t pay….now that is a pretty cocky statement but I know my stuff and I have always been paid. Here at FinishlineRacingSchool we earned our reputation the hard way…one student at a time and we value each and everyone of them.

With that being said YES if I where a Spyder dealer I would defiantly have a True Laser Track Spyder alignment system and I would make it a free initial alignment for my new customer.

This system was not invented for the Spyder it was adapted to it, with the intention of making my wife’s Spyder ride better. If mama is not happy no one is happy…and after the laser alignment she is happy and has a “safer” feeling ride.

 

[FLAlaserman]

The above heading is a fact of life....and BRP could /should put a 200 lb weight on the Spyder and then do the alignment.....In the racing world the car is set-up for a SPECIFIC DRIVER and his/her dimensions......In the real world this is not practical...it is doable to compensate for all changes ,....However I estimate the cost for that alone would be 5 times the original cost of the Spyder.....So this is not happening.....I absolutely agree that a PERFECTLY ALIGNED Spyder is the IDEAL however if the usual operator looses 10 lbs the alignment is NO LONGER PERFECT......But in real terms does it have to be ? ? ?....Does putting a passenger or your Spyder so mess up the alignment that you are now in DANGER or your tires are going to WEAR out 10,000 miles sooner....I don't think so...As soon as I can locate someone that has one of your LASERS I will have my 08 GS done. My 2011 RSS is already darn near perfect (LUCKY ME ) so I don't want that touched............I do have a question ?????....The perfect LASER ALIGNMENT is perfect while it's NOT MOVING......WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE SUSPENSION GOES UP AND DOWN....................ANSWER ............THE ALIGNMENT CHANGES..............IMHO....Mike....PS Thanks for coming to market with a great product, and I'm being totally honest :thumbup:

BlueKnight:

Again you are correct , the alignment changes when you hit the road , as the suspension goes up and down the “toe” changes .

Here at the race school we have corrected the problem by getting zero bump in the right front and .012 bump out in the left front which allows us to turn the corner on a ½ mile circle track along with ackerman. That is on a race car, there is NO WAY to get zero bump in a Spyder with out redesigning the front end / geometry, so what is the answer ? Get the toe set as close as possible, and get the front end running straight with the rear wheel.

We joke about “ the string” but that is how race car mechanics check TOE…to me it is a bit like Fred Flintstone…that’s why we say it is time to throw the string away


Again like I mentioned in my last response, the only way to get the toe CLOSE enough is by using the TLT laser technology. Not only are we using this technology on race cars, now on Spyders we can also adjust toe on tractor trailers and any kind of street vehicles.

The old way the factory has the Spyder dealers do alignments not only takes forever time wise It does not work and the customer is not happy because the ride is still scary.

So please go get your 2008 done and don’t be afraid to have your 2011 RS checked you might be surprised. My wife has a 2010 RS and when we bought it it was toed OUT .090 it should be toed IN .010. So just for the hell of it have it checked and as always all Spyder riders are welcome to call here anytime. I hope I can help.

Mike Loescher

 

[Lamonster]

The above heading is a fact of life....and BRP could /should put a 200 lb weight on the Spyder and then do the alignment....

BRP uses a hydraulic jig to load the suspension before doing the alinement with the laser. It's a little more complex than a 200 lb weight.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

WEIGHT TESTING

BRP uses a hydraulic jig to load the suspension before doing the alinement with the laser. It's a little more complex than a 200 lb weight.

Thanks LaMont for this bit of info...........things like this are only known by a very few people .........thanks for sharing......Mike...:thumbup:

 

[Ronbo]

Bradford marine

I want to let fellow Spyder riders know that they have a new machine out that is better and more accurate at lining up the spyders. I have had my spyder for two years and I have been fighting with the steering and I have has it back to my dealer and was told nothing is wrong with it. Well two weeks ago I went to a bike rally in Johnstown pa and they always have the canam dealers there and I talked to one while I was there and told him about the problem with the steering and he told me about the new lazar machine he was getting and said to make appointment and it would check my alignment so I did and Saturday they put the machine on my spyder and come to find out the back wheel was 5/8 inch off so my bike was riding side ways and that was why I was having so much trouble with the steering. He was getting ready to check one of his new spyders to see if they we're off to. If you want to see if the alignment is off ask your dealer to check it for you if they have this machine . I am glad I talked to this dealer now my spyder runs good so far. If you live near Windber pa here is the dealer that I used they are supper nice and very knowledgeable of the:clap: Canam spyder: Truimph of Windber Can-am

1-814-467-4830

Bradford mmarine do you have new lazer alignment machine yet?

 

[Sny]

Is there a list of dealers who have the TLT system yet?

 

[SpyRyd]

Is there a list of dealers who have the TLT system yet?

Yep, see post #45.

 

[Lamonster]

BRP uses a hydraulic jig to load the suspension before doing the alinement with the laser. It's a little more complex than a 200 lb weight.

Here's some more pics of the factory setup.

 

[effgjamis]

I bought this tool after talking with the owner/inventor of it at the Owners event. The thing that sold me on it was it based on contact patch of the tires and not frame alinement. I'm going to be doing BajaRons Spyder and mine this week to see if it's off seeing we did both of these the old way. I plan on doing alinements here along with suspension upgrades and tuning here at Lamonster Garage to help pay for this tool. I think this will help with front tire wear too if it's scrubbing of the tires because the tires are not alined with the rear that are causing it. I'm not an expert on this but I plan on being one. :doorag:

I wonder about your opinion after you have adjusted both your and Ron's alignment.
I have not seen your results. Of course I may have missed it, you know senior moments and eyes.

 

[bill pitman]

Jig...

I like the handlebar jig!

Bill