Need a New battery - what type: Lead Acid, AGM, Gel?

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Lithium cannot safely provide the amperage necessary to start an engine.

Why do you say that? There are quite a few powersports and automobile batteries on the market. I would say don't buy an economy version. They need to have a special charging management system built into them since a vehicle charging system isn't designed for Lion batteries. There are a number of jump starters that use Lion batteries. It looks like good Lion powersports batteries cost $200 to $500. I don't think they could possibly be so much better than AGM batteries to justify that kind of cost.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums...tery-won-t-start!-Ideas&p=1610961#post1610961

I just answered your post on this ..... Mike :thumbup:

 

[UtahPete]

Why do you say that? There are quite a few powersports and automobile batteries on the market. I would say don't buy an economy version. They need to have a special charging management system built into them since a vehicle charging system isn't designed for Lion batteries. There are a number of jump starters that use Lion batteries. It looks like good Lion powersports batteries cost $200 to $500. I don't think they could possibly be so much better than AGM batteries to justify that kind of cost.

Lithium batteries are designed to provide a long, slow discharge and quick recharge. They're great for RV house batteries, trolling motors and such. They tend to overheat and even catch fire when called on to provide a high discharge amperage. A lithium battery safely rated at the discharge rate needed for a starter motor would be much larger than the space available in the Spyder battery compartment.

That is my understanding based on my research. I don't claim to be an expert on the topic.

 

[Joel The Biker]

Lithium cannot safely provide the amperage necessary to start an engine.

I have a lithium battery in my Spyder and it works fine. There is no special charging system/alternator needed on a vehicle to maintain a lithium battery. The only special charger you need is a lithium battery maintainer for storage. I use Battery Tender brand maintainer that has a selection for lithium.

 

[UtahPete]

I have a lithium battery in my Spyder and it works fine. There is no special charging system/alternator needed on a vehicle to maintain a lithium battery. The only special charger you need is a lithium battery maintainer for storage. I use Battery Tender brand maintainer that has a selection for lithium.

Joel, can you provide the brand and model of that battery? It's good to know there is a lithium option for those who want one.

 

[RayBJ]

I had a Li-Ion battery in my 1200 Trophy SE and it was fine above 40 degrees. But at 28 degrees it needed warm-up time and cranked slower than normal.
I put one with more CCA than oem in my RT (1300) and it struggled to start even at 50 degrees. It was fully charged, voltage was normal but it couldn't handle the load. Sent it back and now live with the oem anchor.

 

[BajaRon]

Do not use a standard Lead Acid. I put a Lithium in mine! Love it! Much easier to deal with, just for starters. Weighed about 3 lbs. But most use an AGM. They work well.

 

[UtahPete]

Lithium batteries are designed to provide a long, slow discharge and quick recharge. They're great for RV house batteries, trolling motors and such. They tend to overheat and even catch fire when called on to provide a high discharge amperage. A lithium battery safely rated at the discharge rate needed for a starter motor would be much larger than the space available in the Spyder battery compartment.

That is my understanding based on my research. I don't claim to be an expert on the topic.

After some googling around, it appears lithium powersports batteries are readily available. So, I was wrong and stand corrected.

Update; 6/6/22; I just ordered a Shorai. The drawbacks to LiFePO4 batteries (useless in cold weather and shorter amp-hours) for powersports are not an issue for me as I don't willingly ride in cold weather. The lighter weight, faster charging time and smaller profile are all major pros.

 

[EdMat]

When its cold you may need to turn it on and let the lights burn for a bit to warm up a lithium based battery before it has enuff ump to start.

 

[BertRemington]

I recommend the Shorai LFX36L3-BS12

Shortly after I purchased my used 2014 RT-S (77K miles, third owner) I installed a Shorai LFX36L3-BS12 https://shoraipower.com/battery?type=175&make=380732&model=380733&year=380733 weighing 4.5lbs (vice 17.5) with 540CCA (vice 350). I also installed a voltmeter to ensure the battery and alternator were performing properly. Boring -- 14.4 running, 13.2 resting, 12 something starting. I'm replacing the voltmeter with a clock. The only installation issue is bending the holdown tangs flat to avoid shorts.

The battery comes with adapters for side/front or top lug connections (top pictured). See those dinky machine screws -- they are used to lock the alignment of the adapter to your preferred orientation (if you look closely at the above picture you can see the holes in the brass post). You also get enough adhesive spacing pads to build a cat bed with the leftovers.

When I had a single battery I used the top adapters but switched to side adapters when I added the second battery. I never had the slightest hesitation or slow crank down into the 40s with the single battery but the low price for a second battery tempted me into adding it.

You'll notice the negative terminal has two cables (so does the positive terminal but it's not so obvious). While the batteries are connected in parallel the connection to the Spyder is separated between batteries to help balance them (ie, negative from frunk, positive from chassis).

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

When I had a single battery I used the top adapters but switched to side adapters when I added the second battery. I never had the slightest hesitation or slow crank down into the 40s with the single battery but the low price for a second battery tempted me into adding it.

What particular reason, other than price, prompted you to add a second battery? Are they identical or not? If not, they really need to be. You could have problems if they're not the same, particularly if one battery starts to die sooner than the other, or they don't absorb a charge reasonably equally, or they tend to discharge at different rates.

 

[BertRemington]

Well besides low price there is diminished good sense, more is better, etc etc and then for a reason you will see again in the near future -- Because I Can!

The batteries are the same model from relatively close production runs and I did put the negative and positive Spyder connections on different batteries to help (but not guarantee) balancing. And while I removed the analog voltmeter I'm installing a digital voltmeter which hopefully help me spot any deterioration.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

And while I removed the analog voltmeter I'm installing a digital voltmeter which hopefully help me spot any deterioration.

I'm skeptical. Even a near dead battery from an ampacity standpoint will show full voltage. But there is one way to keep a watch that is a load test without using a load tester. With a new, or near new, fully charged battery, open and hold the throttle wide open and then push the start button. Holding the throttle wide open keeps the engine from starting. Crank the engine for maybe 15 seconds and note what the voltage is on your digital voltmeter. You don't want to crank the starter too long or it'll get hot and maybe even burn out. After several months or a year repeat the process (same cranking time each test) and compare the voltage readings. How much the voltage drops from one test to another will give you an idea of how well the battery is holding up.

 

[Mikey]

I had already mentioned them in s different thread :roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:..... Mike

Your slipping Mike!!!!:2thumbs:

 

[JeffandLori]

As far as the 3 lbs weight savings, here in America, it would be more cost effective if thee operator of the vehicle lost the 3 lbs.

 

[K80Shooter]

What particular reason, other than price, prompted you to add a second battery? Are they identical or not? If not, they really need to be. You could have problems if they're not the same, particularly if one battery starts to die sooner than the other, or they don't absorb a charge reasonably equally, or they tend to discharge at different rates.

When running more than one battery your best battery is no better than your worst battery. In the repair field if I had to replace one battery, I always replaced them all. Thats the way the battery manufacturers tell you to do. And yes, they should always be the same with the same specs.

And while I'm at it, a lot of folks like to mention using lock washers but they "never" mention what size you need. It's a 6mm.

 

[BertRemington]

Idaho -- thanks for the load test guidance. It's getting down in the 40s again so I'll do a load test baseline.

Jeff -- you are so so right! I'll get the same advice from my PCP later this month. And she's going to tell me to take better care of my pipes too. Season's Greetings.

 

[Joel The Biker]

Joel, can you provide the brand and model of that battery? It's good to know there is a lithium option for those who want one.

https://www.amazon.com/New-BikeMaster-Lithium-Ion-Motorcycle-Battery/dp/B08W4XWY44?pd_rd_w=noW4G&pf_rd_p=5bc65336-a8b0-4888-9e70-4d4ce2f6bd59&pf_rd_r=7HNCPQQ2N1KTN7TB2PRN&pd_rd_r=d060f483-85fc-42a9-852c-36a48e93fc0a&pd_rd_wg=mgfnU&pd_rd_i=B08W4XWY44&psc=1&ref_=pd_bap_d_rp_74_i

Bikemaster Lithium

 

[HarrisburgPa-Rider$$$]

Antigravity Batteries ATX20-HD Heavy Duty Lithium Ion Battery with Dual Polarity and

Have anyone ever used this kind of battery Antigravity Batteries ATX20-HD Heavy Duty Lithium Ion Battery with Dual Polarity and Battery Management System (BMS) - 900 CCA 5.18 Pounds 30Ah - AG-ATX20-HD -> inside your Can Am Spyder? I have a 2016 RT LIMITED,

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

View attachment 194069Have anyone ever used this kind of battery �� Antigravity Batteries ATX20-HD Heavy Duty Lithium Ion Battery with Dual Polarity and Battery Management System (BMS) - 900 CCA 5.18 Pounds 30Ah - AG-ATX20-HD -> inside your Can Am Spyder? I have a 2016 RT LIMITED,View attachment 194068

900 CCA is impressive, but even 1/2 that would be more than OEM .... can you use it - sure, but make sure it will fit ..... PS at three X's the cost of a Yuasa, I won't be buying it ..... and does it need a special charger .???? .... thanks ... Mike :thumbup: