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My friend (87 years old) having lighting problems on his '08 Spyder---needs schematic

D

Deseret Rider

New member
Can anybody give me a link to a wiring diagram so I can help him solve his turn signal problem--(Neither side will work) -All fuses and bulbs are good---we can't find a 'flasher' unit? (Don't see one listed on the fuse box lid and can't otherwise identify one anywhere). I have some electrical savyy but no schematic to follow and I do not have any Can Am experience so any help or advise would be much appreciated Lynn
PS---reply here or by PM----thanks in advance.
 
Bummer..!!

The flasher unit is built into the instrument cluster and I don't know that you can fix it or change it without the whole cluster being changed. Hopefully it is elsewhere . Do the emergency flashers wirk..?? Fronts, backs, left or right..?? :dontknow:
 
Deseret Rider said:
Can anybody give me a link to a wiring diagram so I can help him solve his turn signal problem--(Neither side will work) -All fuses and bulbs are good---we can't find a 'flasher' unit? (Don't see one listed on the fuse box lid and can't otherwise identify one anywhere). I have some electrical savyy but no schematic to follow and I do not have any Can Am experience so any help or advise would be much appreciated Lynn
PS---reply here or by PM----thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

The reason you can't find a flasher, there isn't one. The computer in the gauge cluster turns the turn/hazard lights on/off and controls the flash.

It would be interesting to know if you tried the hazard 4 ways and if they work? Also does the guage cluster indicator lights work?

The fuse is F9 and should be 10 amp. It also powers the clock. Does the clock work?
 
Followup to my original

Thanks fellows for the help---truth is that I didn't know that there was no flasher nor did I know that the emergency units ---or the clock---would be on the same circuit (I probably should have known). I see on the wiring schematic that Jos sent me that all of those are fed by the same main 40 amp fuse so I am expecting that when I check tomorrow I will find that all of those are in-operable along with the turn signals. If that turns out to be the case then I will suspect that the 40 amp main fuse that feeds several of the smaller fuses must be blown---and---if that turns out to be the case then I'll look for a short circuit downstream which may have caused the main to blow---if it is, in fact, blown. However I am not terribly confident in my theory because I know the 10 amp fuse feeding the turn signal is not blown (but that may because my friend had already replaced all those smaller fuses fed by the 40 amp main before he ask me to help???) I may be on the wrong track here but your comments have given me some ideas of places to start----thanks-----I'll get back to report my progress (if any LOL). Lynn
 
ADDITIONAL LIGHTS

Does He have any additional lights or has He had other work done ....even mirror extensions ( recently )......Mike :thumbup:
 
Update to original (2)

BLUEKNIGHT911 said:
Does He have any additional lights or has He had other work done ....even mirror extensions ( recently )......Mike :thumbup:
Click to expand...


He had business up town today so we didn't get to work on it-----but will do so tomorrow. The only thing I know about what's gone before is------he said that a couple weeks ago he lost his turn signal lights but they came back on by themselves as he was trying to find a problem---- I'm pretty sure the machine is stock---no extra lights or mirror extensions. I'll have more information after I get a chance to see what's working and what's not----tomorrow. Thanks for asking
 
Trying again to post the picture of the wiring diagram of the turn signal switch



It seems I can't get the actual picture to post here----hopefully you might be able to see it at the link shown above?
 
The turn signal switch

I may have lost the post explaining the switch----to summarize:
The turn signal switch is a simple mechanical devise---right? we don't want to take it apart yet so our theory is that we can test it by looking for continuity between wires exiting the switch as follows:

1. With the switch held in the LEFT turn position we should see continuity between these three wires:
Wh/GR , Gr/ Br and Yellow/ Pink

2. With the switch held in the RIGHT turn position we should see continuity between the following three wires:
Wh/Yellow, Gr/ Br and Yellow Pink

We assume that if we are losing the circuit within the switch then those continuities will not show up????????

If we do read continuity as above then can we assume that our problem is NOT in the switch and we should look elsewhere?
 
Deseret Rider said:
I may have lost the post explaining the switch----to summarize: The turn signal switch is a simple mechanical devise---right? we don't want to take it apart yet so our theory is that we can test it by looking for continuity between wires exiting the switch as follows: 1. With the switch held in the LEFT turn position we should see continuity between these three wires: Wh/GR , Gr/ Br and Yellow/ Pink 2. With the switch held in the RIGHT turn position we should see continuity between the following three wires: Wh/Yellow, Gr/ Br and Yellow Pink We assume that if we are losing the circuit within the switch then those continuities will not show up???????? If we do read continuity as above then can we assume that our problem is NOT in the switch and we should look elsewhere?
Click to expand...

Why is it that you do not mention 'black' for 1 & 2 above? It appears to be the common tie point (ground). Maybe start at a loose ground after checking continuity in the switch.
 
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The way it's laid out in the diagram is confusing. You need to test continuity from the ground line. The ground line is position A (Black) in the MSL connector.

Left, Black to WH/GN (MSL A to G)
Right, Black to WH/YL (MSL A to H)
Cancel/Resume, Black to GN/BR (MSL A to J)

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Ah Yes! The Ground !

billybovine said:
The way it's laid out in the diagram is confusing. You need to test continuity from the ground line. The ground line is position A (Black) in the MSL connector.

Left, Black to WH/GN (MSL A to G)
Right, Black to WH/YL (MSL A to H)
Cancel/Resume, Black to GN/BR (MSL A to J)

attachment.php
Click to expand...
Good point! I had not mentioned the Black wire (ground) because the way I was reading the diagram it looked like the black wire did not exit the switch--and my focus was on testing the continuity of wires exiting the switch to determine whether the switch was operating correctly----but you guys have me thinking about the Black wire ground---------Hmmmm?
 
The horn does honk

billybovine said:
If the horn works the ground is good to the chassis.
Click to expand...


The horn does honk-----

Looking at the diagram I posted-----see that the MSL 3/4 unit shows a Yellow with Pink wire coming out of the switch into the loom----but there is no Yellow with Pink wire in that loom???? I am not clear on what the purpose of that wire really is ----but it appears that it is grounded when the turn signal switch is activated. And---since the horn does honk can I eliminate the Yellow with Pink wire as being a problem? I don't understand what the 'cluster' is for----is it an electronic devise of some kind? And now I surmise that the turn signal switch must receive it's 'hot' from the the Grey (GY-20) feed coming it to the cluster ???? I have been assuming that the TS switch would transfer the 'hot' to either the White/Green wire or the White/Yellow wire depending on the direction the switch is held? If that is, in fact, what should happen then the appropriate turn light should come on because each of the TS bulbs is grounded through BK1 (assuming that BK1 is, in fact grounded?------does BK1 ground through a relay perhaps? I'll check to verify that the ground lug on the bulb holder is ---or is not---grounded and perhaps answer my own question.

In summary----where I am at now is:
I will check the bulb holder to ground
I will check continuity of the grey wire through the switch to White / Green and also to White to Yellow with the switch held both ways-----

Then if all that checks out I guess I'll be back for more advise----either that or his roadster may mysteriously catch fire---LOL
 
Since I don't have a complete wiring diagram in front of me, is it possible that the cluster is where the electrical/electronic making/breaking is done for the flashing? In any case, since you know you have a good ground, I would leave a probe there, and then use what we called the hop scotch method (for continuity as long as you are working the negative side; once on the positive and negative side, then switch to voltage). So, one probe on the negative (ground) and the other probe would be moved to the next connection point, and so on.

Also, make sure that the ground wire is okay from the horn to the turn signal switch.
 
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I think you have the mistaken belief that the turn signal switches have something electrical to do with the turn signal lights. Right now you're mumbling what the hell is this guy talking about. :roflblack:

The turn signal switch is nothing but an input into a microprocessor. Same as pressing a key on a computer keyboard. What happens with that input is programming. The turn signal lights are nothing but an output from the microprocessor. The microprocessor is in the gauge cluster.

So when you slide the turn signal switch to the left. It momentarily closes a circuit to the processor. Programing takes over, opens and closes the left turn signal circuit, how fast. when to stop, ect. I am not sure but I think there is circuit protection built in too.

So this make it very easy to diagnose. No flasher. No relays. Simple on/off switches. Simplified wiring.

Does the hazard flasher system work? With the button? Then try with the engine running and putting it in reverse?

If both no the problem is likely in the light circuit itself. Not with the switches. Short circuit, bad fuse, bad ground broken wire.
 
You might want to ask your friend if the display panel was removed from the spyder. It is a shot in the dark. But, a long time ago, the site administrator had an electrical problem (don't remember if it was the signal lights) that he traced back to the plug connection behind the display. He had bent one of the pins when inserting the plug into the receptacle, when reinserting the display panel. Also, one other member here said that there was corrosion on his pins.

Good luck in finding the problem.
 
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billybovine said:
I think you have the mistaken belief that the turn signal switches have something electrical to do with the turn signal lights. Right now you're mumbling what the hell is this guy talking about. :roflblack:

The turn signal switch is nothing but an input into a microprocessor. Same as pressing a key on a computer keyboard. What happens with that input is programming. The turn signal lights are nothing but an output from the microprocessor. The microprocessor is in the gauge cluster.

So when you slide the turn signal switch to the left. It momentarily closes a circuit to the processor. Programing takes over, opens and closes the left turn signal circuit, how fast. when to stop, ect. I am not sure but I think there is circuit protection built in too.

So this make it very easy to diagnose. No flasher. No relays. Simple on/off switches. Simplified wiring.

Does the hazard flasher system work? With the button? Then try with the engine running and putting it in reverse?

If both no the problem is likely in the light circuit itself. Not with the switches. Short circuit, bad fuse, bad ground broken wire.
Click to expand...


"So this make it very easy to diagnose." You got that right Billybovine I very easily diagnosed the problem--when I push the TS switch and the TS light does not come on and pulse then I quickly figured out that the turn signals did not work. I guess I've exhausted my expertise though---what I know about electrics is 30 year old technology and the world has moved on. Where I ended up today was to verify that the switch was working ----I got voltage out on both the left and right wires but it never got to the lights themselves. So your explanation makes sense to me now---somewhere in that processor/programming the signal from the switch is lost. Unfortunately I wasn't much help to Floyd who will now have to take it to a dealership---the nearest about 130 miles away. I'm sure they can diagnose the problem and fix it with a simple R&R of a plug in part and get him back on the road for just a few hundred dollars. Thirty years ago I could fix a turn signal light problem for about a buck 35------- I'll be fair though and report back one more time with the dealer solution when and if he gets it repaired.
 
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