Making the 2013 Spyder RT-S "Perfect"

[stewartj239]

AutoTune O2 Bung Locations:

For the front header, the bung closest to the header at the very top is the OEM bung. The one closest to my hand is where I had them put the AutoTune bung. It is within the recommended 13" distance from the header and is in wide open space inside the tupperware.



The rear header was the tricky one. The bung closest to the header is the OEM bung. The bung to the right on the down tube is the AutoTune bung. This is literally the only spot that this can go. The header is wedged between the back of the engine and the gas tank. The way they are placed, the frame rail will run between them. Notice that the AutoTune bung is turned forward because if it isn't, then you won't be able to get the bodywork put back on the bike as the O2 sensor will stick out too far.

 

[stewartj239]

Here is a quick comparison between the catalytic converter and the bypass pipe. The cat weighs 12 pounds and the converter weighs 6 pounds. Remember that the cat sits right underneath the gas tank, so getting rid of it will not only reduce heat, but increase HP.

 

[stewartj239]

Total Weight Savings:

Now that I've got all of the aftermarket parts back and weighed, here are the measurements.

OEM Muffler = 20 lbs.
Akraprovic = 10 lbs.

OEM Cat = 12 lbs.
Cat Bypass = 6 lbs.

OEM Airbox = 11 lbs.
KewlMetal = 2 lbs.

Total Weight Savings = 25 lbs.

 

[spacetiger]

I always wondered if you could tap into the wires and use the oem O-2 sensors to feed both the stock and autotune systems? Do you know if the OEM O-2 sensor a wideband O-2 sensor?

Jerry

 

[stewartj239]

Do you know if the OEM O-2 sensor a wideband O-2 sensor?

I do not know.

I always wondered if you could tap into the wires and use the oem O-2 sensors to feed both the stock and autotune systems?

I do know the answer to this one though. The PCV comes with an O2 Optimizer module that plugs in-line to the OEM O2 sensors. The AutoTune comes with its set of O2 sensors, which is why the bungs need to be welded in. Both sets of sensors are used, but not simultaneously so that they don't battle each other. Dyno Jet sent me an explanation about how it works and how it controls them. I can post it if you want.

 

[stewartj239]

Final AutoTune O2 Sensor Locations:

I got the entire exhaust system installed and thought it would be good to show the AutoTune O2 sensor locations. Here is a shot of the front cylinder header pipe. The O2 sensor to the left is the OEM O2 sensor. The sensor to the right that is standing vertical is the AutoTune O2 sensor.



If you are going with the AutoTune AT300 that has a sensor on each header pipe, then this photo shows what I think is the best / only spot for the AutoTune O2 sensor on the rear header pipe. You can see that I had it welded in at a 45 degree angle toward the front of the bike. This is the only way it will clear the engine case, parking brake and side panel once it is installed.



Here is another shot of that sensor on the rear header pipe. In the background, you can see the OEM O2 sensor. This header pipe runs between the engine and gas tank and there is literally no other spot in there where you could get the AutoTune sensor installed.

 

[stewartj239]

Here are a couple more photos of the main header pipe. I think the ceramic coating looks great and has a nice, clean look to it.



Finally, here is a shot from underneath the bike that shows the cat bypass. This was pretty tough going on as the tolerances are extremely tight. It took some finessing to get it installed. Look above the Y-pipe and you can see all of the open space that was once consumed by the catalytic converter.



The Akrapovic silencer is installed as well, but I forgot to take photos of it. I'll post those once I start putting the bodywork back on.

 

[spacetiger]

I do not know.



I do know the answer to this one though. The PCV comes with an O2 Optimizer module that plugs in-line to the OEM O2 sensors. The AutoTune comes with its set of O2 sensors, which is why the bungs need to be welded in. Both sets of sensors are used, but not simultaneously so that they don't battle each other. Dyno Jet sent me an explanation about how it works and how it controls them. I can post it if you want.

Can you post them?

I am wondering if the autotune comes with the O-2 sensors because they need them and you may not have them in your exhaust system. If you can tap into the stock sensors because they are wide-band sensors, you would not need to weld on bungs; just tap into the wiring as the O-2 sensor can send the same signal to both units.

Jerry

Edit: the installation looks good, very clean. My only wish was for you to have wraped the pipes since you had them out. It would never be easier than that time.

Question: Are you going to leave the bodywork off until you get the bike running?

 

[spyderyderjim]

You don't wrap a ceramic coated exhaust pipe, it will overheat the metal

Can you post them?

I am wondering if the autotune comes with the O-2 sensors because they need them and you may not have them in your exhaust system. If you can tap into the stock sensors because they are wide-band sensors, you would not need to weld on bungs; just tap into the wiring as the O-2 sensor can send the same signal to both units.

Jerry

Edit: the installation looks good, very clean. My only wish was for you to have wraped the pipes since you had them out. It would never be easier than that time.

Question: Are you going to leave the bodywork off until you get the bike running?

Ceramic coated exhaust pipes replace the hot rod wrap.
Ceramic is much better at reducing exhaust heat.
[h=4]What are the major benefits of coatings?[/h]Depending on the environment that they are used in, coatings can provide multiple benefits for the part. In most cases, coatings are used to improve thermal management and increase engine efficiency.
Jim K

 

[Ramjet]

what I am trying to understand is this;

if the factory ECU is the "master" controller but then it's signals are then sent out HSED on the factory base software and the feedback of the factory sensors does the Power Commander then take that signal and adjust it again based on its base Map and feedback from its sensors?


if this is the case how can that not result in the two not fighting each other constantly?

because the factory base Map is most likely setup differently than the Power Commander?

 

[stewartj239]

Can you post them?

I am wondering if the autotune comes with the O-2 sensors because they need them and you may not have them in your exhaust system. If you can tap into the stock sensors because they are wide-band sensors, you would not need to weld on bungs; just tap into the wiring as the O-2 sensor can send the same signal to both units.

Jerry

Here are the quotes from the Dyno Jet tech support:

"The Power Commander adds/subtract fuel over/under the ECU."

"The Auto-tune should be inactive in the stock closed loop range. This is done by specifying a Target AFR of zero (0) in the RPMs and throttle positions that the vehicle is in closed loop. The Target AFR tables of our Spyder RT predeveloped map files should reflect this. You should see a huge section of the Target AFR table at lower cruising RPMs and throttle positions has all zeroes (0’s) specified. This is the closed loop range in which the stock O2 sensors are active. You do not want your stock O2 sensors and your Auto-tune O2 sensors active at the same time. They can essentially “fight” with each other."

"The stock closed loop range is tuned by a combination of a blanket fuel change in the closed loop range of the fuel tables in the Power Commander map file and the O2 Optimizer settings."

"With the O2 Optimizers set to zero (0), the clean air injection system blocked off, and a blanket fuel change of 8-12 in the Power Commander map the stock closed loop RPMs and throttle positions should run at an AFR of about 13.6 – 13.9. This is what we found will give the best performance. If you wish to change the AFR in this range, you can do so with a combination of Power Commander manual fuel increases and O2 Optimizer setting modifications. I would not recommend adjusting the O2 Optimizers settings more than +/- 20, if at all."

 

[stewartj239]

My only wish was for you to have wraped the pipes since you had them out. It would never be easier than that time.

spyderyderjim is correct. You do either or, not both.

Question: Are you going to leave the bodywork off until you get the bike running?

Absolutely! With all of the work that was done, I may not have something hooked back up or wired correctly. I need the hear the bike and run well before the bodywork goes back on.

 

[stewartj239]

what I am trying to understand is this;

if the factory ECU is the "master" controller but then it's signals are then sent out HSED on the factory base software and the feedback of the factory sensors does the Power Commander then take that signal and adjust it again based on its base Map and feedback from its sensors?


if this is the case how can that not result in the two not fighting each other constantly?

because the factory base Map is most likely setup differently than the Power Commander?

The stock ECM knows nothing about the PCV. The PCV knows everything about the stock ECM. This is nothing new. DynoJet has been around a long time and they have these setups in just about every bike made. If it didn't work, we'd know about it. You need to have some faith

Here is a good intro video:

http://www.powercommander.com/power...rcommander_video_install_guides.aspx#ytplayer

 

[spacetiger]

I understand the coating is for the temp control. The wrap does 2 things, temp and noise suppression. The reason for the wrap at this time is noise control as you have addressed the temp part. The cost to do the wrap is very small and will never be easier when the pipes are off.

But, at this stage, the pipes are back on, so it is a moot point.

Jerry

 

[stewartj239]

I understand the coating is for the temp control. The wrap does 2 things, temp and noise suppression. The reason for the wrap at this time is noise control as you have addressed the temp part. The cost to do the wrap is very small and will never be easier when the pipes are off.

But, at this stage, the pipes are back on, so it is a moot point.

Jerry

I did research this a while back. Doing both keeps too much heat in the pipe, the wrap traps moisture and the wrap can scratch the ceramic. The general consensus was that you do either or. In addition, doing both is overkill for the Spyder, especially when I don't really have a heat issue to begin with.

 

[Ramjet]

well sorry I am skeptical about the persons selling me the goods seeing they benefit the most from that sale. That said I am keeping and open mind and interested your expereince with this setup.

I also agree to do both will cause more issues like Stewart says one or the other. I choose wrap and will share the heat gun at the rear header at idle with the Tupperware off then again once I wrap same spot. I will use the IR heat gun shoot the spot once the fan comes on then once a I wrap I will do the procedure again and share the data.

 

[stewartj239]

well sorry I am skeptical about the persons selling me the goods seeing they benefit the most from that sale. That said I am keeping and open mind and interested your expereince with this setup.

To put your mind at ease, why not post your questions to Dyno Jet tech support? They are fantastic and they will fully answer any question you give them about any of their products. Honestly, it is the only way that you will get the answers you're looking for.

http://www.powercommander.com/powercommander/Contact/powercommander_technical_support.aspx

 

[Ramjet]

I talked with three different mfg of aftermarket FM systems got two that gave me the same answer and one who didn't PC seems to be a little more bold about what they can do. the other two were honest to the point that I we agreed putting there systems on the a Spyder was a waste of money.

that's why I am curious as to your'e firsthand experience. thus waiting for the report back once you have things running and some time on it.

 

[stewartj239]

I talked with three different mfg of aftermarket FM systems got two that gave me the same answer and one who didn't PC seems to be a little more bold about what they can do. the other two were honest to the point that I we agreed putting there systems on the a Spyder was a waste of money.

that's why I am curious as to your'e firsthand experience. thus waiting for the report back once you have things running and some time on it.

Sounds good. I will definitely provide the feedback.

Just an FYI, the two main reasons why I installed a PCV / AutoTune were:

1. With the heat problems reported on the 2013, I was convinced that it was due to lean jetting. Even though I did NOT experience the problems with melted parts, I know that in general, bikes run lean from the factory and I wanted that corrected.
2. With all of the modifications with the airbox, cat removal and silencer, the OEM ECU would never be able to adjust to that much change.

As stated before, the PCV solved the lean / surging problems on my VFR800, so I do have some past history with it.

 

[Ramjet]

I appreciate the feedback

I am staying with the stock muffler but did remove the cat and went with the Kewl Metal air filter. just got my top vent body panels from Veritka Trikes they are out standing fit and primed finish. I dropped them off for hydrographic dipping today but they will force allot of air into the engine compartment and out the bottom past the y pipe.