Looking for 'increased load' shock suggestions - 2023 F3-S

[Dennis in Lodi]

What stage of Elkas did you have on your Limited?

Stage 2 front. Stage 3 rear. I had to soften the spring tensions as far as I could up front. Even though the rear had the remote adjuster knob, I could not notice any difference in the ride when I turned it in or out. Previous threads had comments from Elka users about leaking fluid almost right out of the box and others stated they had to frequently mail them in for a rebuild because of leaks. I never had this problem. My Elks never bottomed out even while riding 2 up. I have determined that a softer and plusher ride and aftermarket shocks are not what the shock replacement industry is geared to deliver. A younger me would have loved my Elka just from the improved aggressive riding performance. Dennis

 

[AndysF3S]

Thanks Dennis, I will go with the Elka 3 for the front only because they have the compression adjustment, if I think I need to do a tweak to find the sweet spot and this is a step up over the KYB not adjustable that it came with.

The Elka 3 are 6-8 weeks behind on delivery from order date if anyone is considering them. I have all four on an Outlander quad and will be ordering the accelerated dual rate spring package only for my 22 Renegade XRS. I would like to have tried the spring package only for the F3S but unfortunately they are not available.

 

[broderp]

Your original post said you were concerned about bottoming out the rear; have you considered contacting a service dept and see if a factory automatic air ride from a higher end F3 can be installed & see what it would cost?

As others stated this is likely not a good idea in practice. Issues of the OEM aside, and after looking at the electrical connections and such from the SM, there is no way this will be cheaper and less evasive of an upgrade than aftermarket shocks. If the OEM air suspension was rock solid and an all around best in class performer over a wide range of adjustability, then to me anyway, it would potentially be worth the cost. That's just not the case.

I had Elka full set on my F3 Limited. I was looking for a more comfortable ride than stock. Right out of the box they were stiff and hard over the same bumps I was trying to smooth out. I was very specific with them on my stated goals. There reply was "its like a new pair of shoes, they have to break in. They will be fine!" Well, they were never what I was trying to do. On the good side they did improve aggressive sport riding performance. They held corners better and tracked truer over rough stuff. I got the comfort ride I was looking for with my STOCK 2021 RTL. No way I'm going to change this suspension based on my Elka experience

This is a factor not usually talked about and part of the reason I started this chain. Brand loyalty, fanboy-ism and different riding styles make soliciting answers difficult. I'll throw in that in all likelihood, the stiff ride you experienced was likely PERFECT in someone else eyes. Maybe even Elka's. And me asking for a shock that wont bottom out under my weight/ load is a loaded question because I know in all likeliness the answer will result in a harder ride. I'm looking for a comfortable but supportive ride that wont bottom out but it seems most options within the range I am willing to spend will be compromise. Thanks for your opinion.

Stage 2 front. Stage 3 rear. I had to soften the spring tensions as far as I could up front. Even though the rear had the remote adjuster knob, I could not notice any difference in the ride when I turned it in or out. Previous threads had comments from Elka users about leaking fluid almost right out of the box and others stated they had to frequently mail them in for a rebuild because of leaks. I never had this problem. My Elks never bottomed out even while riding 2 up. I have determined that a softer and plusher ride and aftermarket shocks are not what the shock replacement industry is geared to deliver. A younger me would have loved my Elka just from the improved aggressive riding performance. Dennis

Mind me asking how much you weigh? I'm curious if this would be my experience with Elka, should I go this route (soften the spring tension so much). I'm researching the Elka line and considering the Lamonster Garage kit: https://www.lamonstergarage.com/can-am-spyder-f3-f3-s-ultimate-suspension-package/ that has Stage 3 fronts and a Stage 4 rear. Since I hope to ride two-up with the wife, the remote preload was a very nice selling point I put a lot of weight on when making a buying decision. Its very off putting to hear of leaking issues as I will not have the time (or patients) to remove and replace shocks with down time during the season. I had heard of this on Elka's as well as M2 shocks, but overall, most seem happy with them.

 

[Peteoz]

Stage 2 front. Stage 3 rear. I had to soften the spring tensions as far as I could up front. Even though the rear had the remote adjuster knob, I could not notice any difference in the ride when I turned it in or out. Previous threads had comments from Elka users about leaking fluid almost right out of the box and others stated they had to frequently mail them in for a rebuild because of leaks. I never had this problem. My Elks never bottomed out even while riding 2 up. I have determined that a softer and plusher ride and aftermarket shocks are not what the shock replacement industry is geared to deliver. A younger me would have loved my Elka just from the improved aggressive riding performance. Dennis

I certainly agree with you on this one, Dennis. Both my Wilbers (F3-L) and Ikon (‘21 RT) vastly improved my clearance and control over potholes etc, but at no time did I feel a softer/plusher ride. I was quite happy with my stock ‘21 RT shocks for comfort, but they just weren’t “doing it” with our shocking roads. It’s great to hear that someone else experienced the same. I thought it must just be my imagination.

Pete

 

[troop]

Yeah ... My Wilber 640 HPA rear shock and Fox Podium 1.5/Ohlins springs were certainly not plush. I'd would call them controlled firm

 

[Dennis in Lodi]

.....
This is a factor not usually talked about and part of the reason I started this chain. Brand loyalty, fanboy-ism and different riding styles make soliciting answers difficult. I'll throw in that in all likelihood, the stiff ride you experienced was likely PERFECT in someone else eyes. Maybe even Elka's. And me asking for a shock that wont bottom out under my weight/ load is a loaded question because I know in all likeliness the answer will result in a harder ride. I'm looking for a comfortable but supportive ride that wont bottom out but it seems most options within the range I am willing to spend will be compromise. Thanks for your opinion.
....

I was kind of spoiled from years of off-road motorcycle racing. I would get triple progressive springs dialed for weight. The shock adjustment for rebound and compression really translated into true changes that could be felt under race conditions. My Enduro machines floated like a butterfly over moderate pumps and stiffened just right on the hard. I thought I could achieve that on my F3L. As a test on my F3L I had my friend turn the compression dial either all in or all out and not tell me which he did. I honestly never could tell any difference in the rear shock.

.... Mind me asking how much you weigh? ....

One up about 200 lbs. Two up about 350 lbs. Changing a rear shock was a PITA Good luck. Keeps us posted. Thanks Dennis

 

[PMK]

Spyders being short wheel travel machines, without any suspension linkage to obtain a better rising rate of the suspensions action, places a large emphasis on a proper rear spring AND the progressive increase in air pressure, of the bladder, as the rear suspension compresses.

Lighter the rider or combined rider and payload, the less need for for the air spring system.

From a design standpoint, a Spyders long swingarm combined with a rear shock placed vertical offers a minimal, if any rising rate increase to the the rear shock. In designs like this, often the spring used to resist bottoming out, or riding with excessive rider sag is firmer than ideal for the shocks initial movement.

The Spyders suspension design, in ways similar to the simple go kart style steering, is very few parts to manufacturer, but can be acceptable on account of minimal wheel travel of the suspension, but can no doubt be improved with higher performance suspension components.

 

[broderp]

I was kind of spoiled from years of off-road motorcycle racing. I would get triple progressive springs dialed for weight. The shock adjustment for rebound and compression really translated into true changes that could be felt under race conditions. My Enduro machines floated like a butterfly over moderate pumps and stiffened just right on the hard. I thought I could achieve that on my F3L. As a test on my F3L I had my friend turn the compression dial either all in or all out and not tell me which he did. I honestly never could tell any difference in the rear shock.



One up about 200 lbs. Two up about 350 lbs. Changing a rear shock was a PITA Good luck. Keeps us posted. Thanks Dennis

I'm hoping that the PITA you refer to is due to having a F3T, R, Limited or RT. I have a F3-S and it appears fairly straight forward with decent access. The more I learn about Spyder's, the more I am so happy I picked the F3S over the T or Limited I was considering. :thumbup:

 

[BamaJohn]

Having replaced the rear tire myself, I'll be timing rear shock replacement to coincide with the next rear tire replacement....don't want to do that any more often than necessary, 'cause it is definitely a PITA.
:cheers:

 

[Mikey]

Suspensions are like seats, every body's butts like a different thing, and it's hard to please everyone with one style of shock. My thoughts are that it doesn't really matter which brand you go to, but when you do it's important that when you go through the ordering stage, talk to the builder and tell them what you're looking for. If they are truly a shock fab shop, they should get close, yes it may take a little tweaking, and maybe revalving but they should get close to what you want! As much as I bitch about the air ride system on these bikes, it's the air delivery part of the system I hate the most, and the cheap shock that they shove it there. The compressors the weak link! Not dependable and when it go's, it really sucks. Lot of people fell that the bags there just to adjust ride height, I feel the bags there for the compression, and the shocks there for the rebound, hence the plush ride! When the bags out of the picture your to the murcy of that shock and thats less than a pogo stick with on spring. Ask me how I know this? Any way to all that's trying to battle this bear, good luck and spend you money wisely, and don't get flustered if you don't hit the nail on the head the first time, you have to tweak it to please your butt!!

 

[broderp]

Spyders being short wheel travel machines, without any suspension linkage to obtain a better rising rate of the suspensions action, places a large emphasis on a proper rear spring AND the progressive increase in air pressure, of the bladder, as the rear suspension compresses.

Lighter the rider or combined rider and payload, the less need for for the air spring system.

Interesting comment in that it would seem that unless this was an oversight in design, Spyder was designed from the start to utilize and air suspension and the models that don't have one are left to contend with the design as it was. I'm not a design engineer, but I can think of a better design for a suspension than a simple vertical one. I also find it interesting that the Ryker has a rear shock spacer that can be added, but the design geometry on that trike is much different.

From a design standpoint, a Spyders long swingarm combined with a rear shock placed vertical offers a minimal, if any rising rate increase to the the rear shock. In designs like this, often the spring used to resist bottoming out, or riding with excessive rider sag is firmer than ideal for the shocks initial movement.

This would almost seem like an argument for a spring system like the Elka Stage 3+ dual spring rates. Interesting..

 

[Dennis in Lodi]

I'm hoping that the PITA you refer to is due to having a F3T, R, Limited or RT. I have a F3-S and it appears fairly straight forward with decent access. The more I learn about Spyder's, the more I am so happy I picked the F3S over the T or Limited I was considering. :thumbup:

The tail needs to be lifted to create the clearance for removal. Because of the side luggage on my F3L, I had a difficult time trying to lift the tail without causing damage. The rear tire stays on the floor and the tail gets lifted just right for the bolts and holes to line up. Four hands at this moment would really help.

 

[fatboy]

i am running m2s on front and left the rear alone on my 21rtl love the ride its great for cruising or spirited riding

 

[broderp]

i am running m2s on front and left the rear alone on my 21rtl love the ride its great for cruising or spirited riding

How has your experience been when it comes to needing to make adjustments? How difficult is it to access and make adjustments once mounted? How long have you had them? M2 is on my short list to purchase for a few reasons.

 

[fatboy]

get them set and forget 50000 miles