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Liquid Performance Ethanol Equilizer
- Thread starter JimH
- Start date
BajaRon
Well-known member
Dealerships say a lot of things that are not necessarily true. Things are getting better in this regard. But if your dealership is actually putting 99 octane race fuel in their Spyders. It is a very foolish thing to do, and I am sure not supported by BRP or Can-Am. Not that it will hurt anything. Just expensive and reduces the capabilities of the machine.
wingit3611
Member
I believe that CanAm's have a knock sensor in them for timing. So 99 octane means you get the highest timing out of your engine. Which you mite also be getting with 87 octane. Who know's but the seat of your pants or maybe a Dyno. I've heard that engine rebuilders say premium has a build up if not needed.????
carbonation
New member
SeaFoam is pale oil, solvent and alcohol. While I'm not a fan of adding more alcohol, it is what it is. It's a small amount, no harm. Works best in ethanol free fuels because there is nothing present to absorb moisture in those.
Pale oil wets the back of the valves so carbon and deposits have less tendency to stick, and lubricates the injector pintle and fuel pump.
Techron has a healthy dose of PEA, keeping fuel system and injectors clean, and provides some cleaning action in the combustion chamber.
Usually used periodically for clean up, I use it continuously to keep things in check.
Redline SI-1 is a great substitute if you want a boutique name and pay more.
Consider that a tanker truck that holds 8500 gallons gets less that 1 gallon of additive at the loading rack, my one ounce per gallon, with half of that being an injector and combustion chamber cleaner, I'm above top tier specs, and no matter where I get fuel, no name or branded, I've got a cleaner and lubricant on board.
Your mileage may vary, that's just what I do from what I've learned.
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wingit3611
Member
Corbonation: Thanks, I learned a lot from that.
2012 RT-L SE5 3500 miles .My question despite the debate..Can i.. if I chose for whatever esoteric reason add some cleaner solvent closer to the injectors rather than the fuel tank?Is there a good spot to get a little bit of this solvent closer to the system i want to purge/clean. Should I just put some into the fuel line going into the throttle body? I've got an erratic idle combined with a P-1171 engine code (Lean cyl 1) which is driving me a bit nutty. I'm replacing the MAP vacuum hose(but these are good) checking the throttle bodies. Otherwise it was running perfect when purchased 2 weeks ago. I drove it 40-50 miles with the check engine light as it runs fine at higher RPMs
2012 RT-L SE5 . 3500 miles. Tranny Shudders at low Rpm s Erratic idle. Engine check light Code P-1171 cyl 1 lean. Had run perfect after purchase 2weeks ago. No mods. Checking vacuum hoses will replace off of MAP sensor. Will check throttle body boots.Possible #1 injector clog. Any way to direct injector cleaner ie seaform etc closer to throttle body/injector besides as an additive to gas tank ?Planning to add Air scoops per 2013 recall heat mgt .
The tranny shuddering at low RPM feels bloody awful but is quite common on these early machines, especially with a cold engine, and yet it isn't usually damaging in any way. It usually goes away as the bike/oil warms up... So that might not be as bad an issue as you might think.... once all the other stuff is sorted. :lecturef_smilie:
The vacuum hoses are a known problem and they can look perfect until you take them off & kink them double, when it becomes obvious that they've been Wallaby Ted's older brother Roo for a loooong time, leaking air like a sieve, and will probably have been causing all sorts of erratic idle issues for all that time too!
Replace all three of them with silicone hoses & be done with it, & while you're at it in there, check & replace the throttle body boots at the same time! Save yourself from having to go back in later - you'll work out why this is important once you start replacing the vacuum hoses etc! And while it's all naked with the tupperware removed, check, clean, &/or replace everything/anything else that looks the slightest bit dodgy that you can get at too - MAF, air filter, fuel filter, purge valve, etc, etc - do anything & everything you can! :thumbup:
Additive type injector cleaners - they rarely work wonderfully once the offending injector is already gummed up - arguably, they'll work best if used from new as a preventative, and those that are successful at 'after the fact' cleaning generally take a looong time and quite a few tanks full of fuel with the appropriate level of additive mixed in to do anything, anything at all.... so if you want if fixed NOW, don't waste any more of your time &/or money on adding questionable additives anywhere in a likely futile attempt to clean them that way, just get the injector's out & have them ultrasonically cleaned.... or maybe replaced! :shocked:
Good Luck! :2thumbs:
The vacuum hoses are a known problem and they can look perfect until you take them off & kink them double, when it becomes obvious that they've been Wallaby Ted's older brother Roo for a loooong time, leaking air like a sieve, and will probably have been causing all sorts of erratic idle issues for all that time too!
Replace all three of them with silicone hoses & be done with it, & while you're at it in there, check & replace the throttle body boots at the same time! Save yourself from having to go back in later - you'll work out why this is important once you start replacing the vacuum hoses etc! And while it's all naked with the tupperware removed, check, clean, &/or replace everything/anything else that looks the slightest bit dodgy that you can get at too - MAF, air filter, fuel filter, purge valve, etc, etc - do anything & everything you can! :thumbup:Additive type injector cleaners - they rarely work wonderfully once the offending injector is already gummed up - arguably, they'll work best if used from new as a preventative, and those that are successful at 'after the fact' cleaning generally take a looong time and quite a few tanks full of fuel with the appropriate level of additive mixed in to do anything, anything at all.... so if you want if fixed NOW, don't waste any more of your time &/or money on adding questionable additives anywhere in a likely futile attempt to clean them that way, just get the injector's out & have them ultrasonically cleaned.... or maybe replaced! :shocked:
Good Luck! :2thumbs:
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BLUEKNIGHT911
Sadly Passed Oct 2024 - RIP
The tranny shuddering at low RPM feels bloody awful but is quite common on these early machines, especially with a cold engine, and yet it isn't usually damaging in any way. It usually goes away as the bike/oil warms up... So that might not be as bad an issue as you might think.... once all the other stuff is sorted. :lecturef_smilie:
The vacuum hoses are a known problem and they can look perfect until you take them off & kink them double, when it becomes obvious that they've been Wallaby Ted's older brother Roo for a loooong time, leaking air like a sieve, and will probably have been causing all sorts of erratic idle issues for all that time too!
Additive type injector cleaners - they rarely work wonderfully once the offending injector is already gummed up - arguably, they'll work best if used from new as a preventative, and those that are successful at 'after the fact' cleaning generally take a looong time and quite a few tanks full of fuel with the appropriate level of additive mixed in to do anything, anything at all.... so if you want if fixed NOW, don't waste any more of your time &/or money on adding questionable additives anywhere in a likely futile attempt to clean them that way, just get the injector's out & have them ultrasonically cleaned.... or maybe replaced! :shocked:
Good Luck! :2thumbs:
:agree: ...... Fuel injectors have improved during the past few decades ..... back in the day I owned a Porsche and the guy I had working on mine was a Porsche master mechanic .... He believed the only way to clean an injector was to remove it , soak it in solvent and use high pressure air ..... that method worked for the ones I had ..... good luck .... Mike
hyea:It's very possible that the race fuel your dealer is putting in does not have ethanol.
Using fuel without ethanol will allow a dealer to set up a bike / trike and have it all prepped for delivery. Using non ethanol fuel gives them some security that they will not have to worry about the fuel system having an issue until the bike / trike sells.
I do not think it has anything to necessarily to do with the octane. The fuel they can get from a supplier without ethanol may just happen to be race fuel with a higher octane.
carbonation
New member
I agree that keeping injectors clean is a lot easier than cleaning them up.
But injector deposits can be cleared with the right product and dosage.
Techron is very good, so is Redline SI-1.
Many FI cleaners use PBA because it's cheaper. Techron is PBA and PEA, with PEA being more effective. SI-1 has PEA as well.
You have nothing to lose by trying either, (leaning toward Redline, O'Reilley Auto Parts) for cleaning dirty injectors.
https://www.redlineoil.com/content/files/tech/SI-1%20Complete%20Fuel%20System%20Cleaner%20MSDS.pdf
https://www.redlineoil.com/Content/files/tech/SI-1_PROD_INFO.pdf
But injector deposits can be cleared with the right product and dosage.
Techron is very good, so is Redline SI-1.
Many FI cleaners use PBA because it's cheaper. Techron is PBA and PEA, with PEA being more effective. SI-1 has PEA as well.
You have nothing to lose by trying either, (leaning toward Redline, O'Reilley Auto Parts) for cleaning dirty injectors.
https://www.redlineoil.com/content/files/tech/SI-1%20Complete%20Fuel%20System%20Cleaner%20MSDS.pdf
https://www.redlineoil.com/Content/files/tech/SI-1_PROD_INFO.pdf
PMK
Active member
Tango and his dealer reside in Florida. Overall, in Florida it is very easy to purchase non ethanol Rec Gas with about 90 octane. Cost is about $3.00 per gallon. Most times non ethanol race fuel is about $10 per gallon.
PMK
Active member
Yes, replacing vacuum hoses is important. Realize too, the V twins are known to develop misfires on account of low quality spark plug leads. Likely best to replace those with aftermarket performance leads. Misfires on some engines can trigger odd ball codes.
Mazo EMS2
Active member
Definitely look over and probably replace those vac lines. As mentioned, they can look fine, but the slightest of cracks can let air in causing running problems. Pop one off and take it to your local auto parts store and replace it with the same size of course. Get the good stuff
IdahoMtnSpyder
Active member
My 2013 RT threw a throttle body code once. When I got back to my dealer he checked it out and then added Yamaha fuel injector cleaner to the gas. Since they used Yamaha branded FI cleaner I figured it must be a decent product to use. I've no idea how it compares to other brands.
carbonation
New member
Did they use Yamaha Ring Free?
That rabbit hole is deep, but if you dive far enough into MSDS sheets, comments, anecdotal recommendations, and the opinions of a million internet experts, it is basically Sea Foam and Techron mixed together.
Where might you have heard that?
IdahoMtnSpyder
Active member
I had one incident of the throttle body sticking in the fall of 2014 with a limp home failure and the engine would not drop back to idle. I'm not sure what I did but I got the error to clear up and the engine to drop to idle so I continued my travels. I stopped at a dealer in Eastern Idaho and they checked things out and cleared the code. They said to have it checked by my local dealer after I got back home.All I remember is the additive was Yamaha brand and they added it to the gas. I think they gave me the bottle and I used it in the gas until it was used up. The plan, which apparently worked, was to use the additive to clean the throttle body to prevent the throttle butterfly valve from sticking again. I believe this was the factory suggested fix before resorting to taking everything apart to clean the throttle body. I do remember having doubts about it since the fuel injection point is downstream of the butterfly valve. I didn't ride much more that fall and then sold the RT the next spring after I got my 2014 so have no idea what, if anything, has happened since.
BajaRon
Well-known member
That is surprising since no fuel additive ever passes through the throttle body. Fuel is not introduced until the injector fires, which is beyond the throttle body. I know the 2008-2012's had throttle body sticking issues because the crank case ventilation system introduced oil into the air box which then accumulated on the throttle body internal parts, gumming it up. But the only way to clear this out was to manually spray carburetor cleaner (or equivalent) onto the internal throttle body parts.