Is Running Diesel Oil in Your Spyder such a good idea?

[VitoNam]

Just something else you might want to consider, there is a tendency in these internal combustion engine thingies for them to effectively 'become used to' whatever oil they've been using for a reasonable amount of time, such that if you do change the oil you run in one, you might find that there's a number of oil related issues that suddenly crop up fairly soon after said change in oil brand/spec, often expensive issues at that!!

I suspect it's got something to do with the differences in the additive package, as the base oil itself is probably pretty similar. But once you've been running an engine on one brand/type/spec oil for a while, the additive package unique to that oil has likely done all the cleaning out of whatever sludge &/or build up that it's capable of dissolving, leaving behind anything it's not capable of removing (possibly helping the now partially worn rings maintain compression, or something similar elsewhere); and it's probably also coated any bearings &/or cylinder walls etc with whatever protective material it uses as well as it can too! Then if you suddenly change to an oil that might be basically similar but may have a significantly different additive package, that new oil could just clean out a whole lot of different stuff, or maybe leave some contaminants behind that your previous oil removed; and while the new oil's protective material may be compatible with what was in the previous oil, there's also a chance that it reacts &/or combines badly with that; all of which can mean the piston rings suddenly don't work quite as well as they used to, or the cylinder walls have a lighter/heavier coating of whatever protective film is on them, or the combustion contaminants don't get dissolved & carried away/filtered out to quite the same degree; any if which might suddenly leaving you with a seriously unhappy engine, simply because you changed the oil brand/type/spec?!?

So if you've been running T6 for a while, you say about 23,000 miles, largely without any concerns, and there's no real certainty that it actually was the OIL that caused your clutch issues, maybe you might want to think carefully and consider whether it's a good idea to 'suddenly' change to a different oil... If you still feel the need to change your oil brand/type/spec regardless, it still might be worth making it a gradual change rather than a full on 'sudden' change at the next oil change - have you considered running a blend of the oils for a while, making it a gradual change - over; saaay, four oil change intervals?? You could run a 75/25 % old/new oil blend for the first oil change; 50/50 for the next; 25/75 for the third; and only making it a full 100% new oil brand/type/spec oil on the fourth oil change. Doing this could be a smart move... or maybe not! But you'll likely only know it would've been smart if you DON'T do the gradual/blended change, and your engine &/or trans gives up/spits the dummy as a result! Too late then tho, isn't it?!

Just Sayin' that it's food for thought...

Thanks for your input Peter! The oil that is in the Spyder now is the XPS 5w30 blended oil that the tech, and dealer, is required to install after the completion of the Output Shaft Recall. With that in mind, I'll most likely continue with the XPS. I can only surmise as to the ultimate outcome of the *change over* of the oil brand as time and miles are accumulated.

 

[Cobranut]

Just something else you might want to consider, there is a tendency in these internal combustion engine thingies for them to effectively 'become used to' whatever oil they've been using for a reasonable amount of time, such that if you do change the oil you run in one, you might find that there's a number of oil related issues that suddenly crop up fairly soon after said change in oil brand/spec, often expensive issues at that!!

I suspect it's got something to do with the differences in the additive package, as the base oil itself is probably pretty similar. But once you've been running an engine on one brand/type/spec oil for a while, the additive package unique to that oil has likely done all the cleaning out of whatever sludge &/or build up that it's capable of dissolving, leaving behind anything it's not capable of removing (possibly helping the now partially worn rings maintain compression, or something similar elsewhere); and it's probably also coated any bearings &/or cylinder walls etc with whatever protective material it uses as well as it can too! Then if you suddenly change to an oil that might be basically similar but may have a significantly different additive package, that new oil could just clean out a whole lot of different stuff, or maybe leave some contaminants behind that your previous oil removed; and while the new oil's protective material may be compatible with what was in the previous oil, there's also a chance that it reacts &/or combines badly with that; all of which can mean the piston rings suddenly don't work quite as well as they used to, or the cylinder walls have a lighter/heavier coating of whatever protective film is on them, or the combustion contaminants don't get dissolved & carried away/filtered out to quite the same degree; any if which might suddenly leaving you with a seriously unhappy engine, simply because you changed the oil brand/type/spec?!?

So if you've been running T6 for a while, you say about 23,000 miles, largely without any concerns, and there's no real certainty that it actually was the OIL that caused your clutch issues, maybe you might want to think carefully and consider whether it's a good idea to 'suddenly' change to a different oil... If you still feel the need to change your oil brand/type/spec regardless, it still might be worth making it a gradual change rather than a full on 'sudden' change at the next oil change - have you considered running a blend of the oils for a while, making it a gradual change - over; saaay, four oil change intervals?? You could run a 75/25 % old/new oil blend for the first oil change; 50/50 for the next; 25/75 for the third; and only making it a full 100% new oil brand/type/spec oil on the fourth oil change. Doing this could be a smart move... or maybe not! But you'll likely only know it would've been smart if you DON'T do the gradual/blended change, and your engine &/or trans gives up/spits the dummy as a result! Too late then tho, isn't it?!

Just Sayin' that it's food for thought...

That's an interesting theory, and I generally prefer to stick to the same oil in an engine over time, I think the gradual change may cause problems with conflicting additives. I'd rather get the old oil out as much as possible and make the switch in one oil change.

 

[Cobranut]

Exactly

I'm always incredulous when people think they know better than the engine manufacturer, what grade and specification of oil the manufacturer recommends for their engine and then the oil companies that spend thousands on R&D and make an oil that meets that required spec.

Knock yourself out if you think you know better

Andres

The important part is heeding the API specs recommended by the manufacturer, as those ensure compatibility with seals, bearings, and piston ring materials.

That said, manufacturers absolutely have other considerations besides performance and longevity when specifying oils.
These low viscosity oils are chosen chiefly to meet fuel economy standards.
In almost all cases, I run one step up in viscosity from the factory recommendation, and I've had several vehicles go over 300,000 miles.
If I lived in an arctic environment where temps get extremely cold, I'd likely stick to the manufacturer's recommendations, but we rarely get into single digits, and high temp protection is more important to me.

 

[JayBros]

One can think, opine, or attempt to pull alleged facts out of whatever body orifices one chooses, but the only way to determine how oil performs is through laboratory analysis.

 

[Peter Aawen]

That's an interesting theory, and I generally prefer to stick to the same oil in an engine over time, I think the gradual change may cause problems with conflicting additives. I'd rather get the old oil out as much as possible and make the switch in one oil change.

I too thought that way... until I saw the first engine killed by nothing but a change in the brand/type/spec of oil it was running!

Admittedly, that motor, and every one of the 'quite a few' that I've seen since where this has happened, had run for waaay more miles than most Spyders will ever get to see, buuut, you never know!! Since that first one, which was many years and miles ago now, I've learnt thru my own and other's hard (and expensive) lessons, that while it could be purely coincidental that engines often fail soon after changing the brand/type/spec of oil they run, it happens often enough for one to start to consider that maybe it's not actually just 'a theory', at least not for some (usually high mileage) engines that have been running the same brand/type/spec oil for a long time! I have managed to get away with changing the oil brand/type/spec in one oil change on some engines (usually reasonably low mileage engines), but not always, so I generally don't do a significant change in oil brand/type/spec in one hit these days, preferring to do a few 'less than usual scheduled interval' changes on gradually increasing blends instead, with no issues - and good oil analysis reports, considering the mileage the motors have seen. But then, I do tend to put more miles on my vehicles/engines than many do, so who knows how a low milage Spyder engine would go?!

Still, I just passed on the lesson that I learned the hard way; it's his Spyder (or yours) and his (or your) risk... Just Sayin'

 

[Mikey]

* In 2019, on my first oil change on my new 2018 F3, I started using Rotella T6.
* I used T6 on every oil and filter change (every 3-4K miles) until late last riding season when I detected a slight slip in the clutch when shifting from neutral into first gear.
* Total milage on the Spyder at the time was around 23,500 miles
* Engagement of all other gears shifted smoothly as normal.
* Before the engine removal, during the Output Shaft Recall, I informed my dealer, and their tech, of the problem.
* While the engine was out (saving much labor costs) the tech took apart the clutch and found the culprit, a broken ring in the clutch pack.
* The clutch pack was replaced.
* Can Am rejected a claim on the clutch, as I suspected they would.
* Was using T6 the culprit? It'll never be known, but I'm not going to use T6 anymore.

View attachment 212764

Well one thing my friend, no one can say you waited too long between oil changes!! Let see, isn't the suggested change, 9300 on the 1330? I don't know, I ride old iron!! Good catch on the clutch!!!!

 

[VitoNam]

Well one thing my friend, no one can say you waited too long between oil changes!! Let see, isn't the suggested change, 9300 on the 1330? I don't know, I ride old iron!! Good catch on the clutch!!!!

That's Can Am's oil change "suggestion" at 9k as we know. Since we ride (mostly two up) usually around up to 4K miles per season, here in NW Minnesota (aka 5 to 6 months per), I'd change oil every 2+ years? NO! So, I go by auto mileage change standards, however pricey it might be. Thanks Mikey re: clutch.

 

[jjc54]

That's Can Am's oil change "suggestion" at 9k as we know. Since we ride (mostly two up) usually around up to 4K miles per season, here in NW Minnesota (aka 5 to 6 months per), I'd change oil every 2+ years? NO! So, I go by auto mileage change standards, however pricey it might be. Thanks Mikey re: clutch.

Didn't know there is an auto mileage change standard. My car's recommended mileage change is 10,000 miles. It now has 230,000 miles and I have never had to add a drop. In looking at Amsoil's oil catalog they have a 25,000 mi oil that they guarantee protection.

 

[racoon]

I have a 2023 Honda Ridgeline with Honda's "Maintenance Minder" system built into the computer. When something is due to be done, it displays a message, which you can then have it display codes identifying what needs to be done.

The Owners Manual Maintenance Minder section says that if it doesn't tell you to change the oil sooner, change the oil every year.

The Operators Guide for my 2024 Spyder RT has similar language on oil and filter replacement: 1 year or 15 000 km (9,300 mi)

My Ridgeline was in for service last month, and I'm dropping off my 13 month old Spyder next week.

 

[Woodenfish]

Lake Speed Jr., The Motor Oil Geek, is probably the most knowledgeable person on earth when it comes to lubrication.
I watch his videos often, and I never fail to learn something.

I watched that video a couple days ago, and the issue is diesel oil necessarily has much higher detergent levels to keep the soot generated by diesel fuel suspended in the oil, where it can be caught by the filter, at least the larger particles.
These detergents actually compete with the base oil and other additives, reducing wear protection.

I much prefer an oil formulated for the particular application, rather than a one-size fits all.

When Lake Speed does an engine oil test comparison on a new Can Am SPYDER engine I will take note. Until then, in my use and limited experience of a few years ownership I haven’t had or noticed any operating changes using Shell Rotella T-6 in both of my RTL’s. I do change it regularly, which is every other year, and below the recommended mileage interval. There's a Big difference between SPYDERS and diesel powered trucks demands on their engine oil in my opinion. The Rotella T-6 has the right certifications for the SPYDER and many different motorcycle owners swear by it in their bikes, which got me interested in it.

 

[Dutchy]

The definition I was taught...

expert - x in mathematics identifies an unknown, spurt - a drip under pressure

So an expert is an unknown drip under pressure.

LOL I wish I used that in the ADF when I was Younger as it did relate to a few people I had dealings with

 

[wcntech]

I think the way you should look at it is, "What does the owner's manual state?" From the 2020 RT manual:

https://www.operatorsguides.brp.com/public/tmp/620072EN1.pdf

Use a 5W40 4-stroke SAE
synthetic engine oil meeting or
exceeding the following lubricant
industry specifications:
API service classification SJ,
SL, SM or SN

So, I know everyone is pointing the finger at Rotella T6 because it is labelled as a diesel oil (even though there is also a picture of a motorcycle on the label). On the back of the jug it clearly states it meets or exceeds API SN. It also meets or exceeds JASO MA/MA2 which is a spec that means it is compatible with wet clutch systems, like our Spyders have.

It may not be your preferred oil, but it is compatible and meets the specs that BRP put in their owner's manual. You don't have to use it, but for those who do, there is no saying it is not compatible.

 

[CloverHillCrawler]

I just recently sent a sample out for testing and posted up the results in another thread. I switched from the xps stock oil to Rotella T6 15W40.

Rather than theory I'll post up results. My Oil test at 35k and the oil is changed every 5k...

 

[Slickster]

Rotella isn't a 'diesel oil', it's an oil that meets the required specs of those engine builders, and those specs exceed by far what your Spyder needs. It can be and is used in lots of gas motors, and it's not an issue...