Is Running Diesel Oil in Your Spyder such a good idea?

[BajaRon]

I know a good number of people are running diesel oil in their Spyder. And I don't know of anyone who has had any particular issues with that. Notwithstanding, is this a good idea?

Here is a video by The Motor Oil Geek that deals, in depth, with this 'misapplication', trend. And no, I don't personally enjoy this guy. But he does have good information, which I do appreciate.

If you don't want to watch this entire video, the conclusions are that a gasoline engine oil is better, sometimes much better, in a gasoline engine than even the best diesel oil, and vice-versa. This should really be no surprise if you understand how much science and research goes into these lubricants.

Have a Great Riding Season!

 

[Deanna777]

I know a good number of people are running diesel oil in their Spyder. And I don't know of anyone who has had any particular issues with that. Notwithstanding, is this a good idea?

Here is a video by The Motor Oil Geek that deals, in depth, with this 'misapplication', trend. And no, I don't personally enjoy this guy. But he does have good information, which I do appreciate.

If you don't want to watch this entire video, the conclusions are that a gasoline engine oil is better, sometimes much better, in a gasoline engine than even the best diesel oil, and vice-versa. This should really be no surprise if you understand how much science and research goes into these lubricants.

Have a Great Riding Season!

Hi BajaRon,

Question: is the Diesel Oil good for Wet Clutch systems like those in our Spyders?

Deanna

 

[TroubledJuan]

Having ridden Goldwing's for the past 30 yrs, there were guys on the different Wing Forums who talked about
using The Shell Rotella oil without any issues, and how they saved money buying it over buying motorcycle oil.
Some even found that since Goldwing's 1500 and 1800's used spin on oil filters, there were auto oil filters they
would buy instead of spending the $8 for a Wix or $10-$15 for other filters designated for the Wings.

And there was always the rebuttal of, "You spent $25k or more for a Wing and then want to cheap out on oil?"

It might all work and you might not have any issues, but IMHO, I'll stick with the Wix filter designated for the Spyder
and use 10w40 Amsoil Motorcycle oil and pay a little more...

 

[BajaRon]

Hi BajaRon,

Question: is the Diesel Oil good for Wet Clutch systems like those in our Spyders?

Deanna

The 1330 clutch is much more forgiving than the 998 system. And I know some are using diesel oil. I am no expert on the diesel oil application. I don't like experimenting with customer's bikes, and I've never wanted to use it in any of mine. Maybe others will post their experience.

The issues with diesel oil have more to do with the additive build-up, mostly in the ring lands of the pistons. But there are other issues, like wear, that can be increased with the use of a diesel oil in a gas fueled engine. These all build up over time, so it takes a while to manifest.

 

[CrazyCooter]

T4 meets JASO MA and MA 2 spec? Sure it works, but I have always questioned whether it is the best solution, despite so many using it as a universal budget solution!?

I personally prefer to run an oil specifically formulated for a given application. There is a reason why many formulators offer up specific oils for snowmobiles, scooters, dirtbikes, v-twins, etc...

If it costs a few bucks more, I can always choose to cut back on other things if my budget doesn't allow!

 

[blacklightning]

This diesel oil must be some sort of miracle cure for everything. They use it on the Vmax forum, on my Ford Lightning group, and on the newer Coyote 5.0 engines in the Mustang to get rid of the "typewriter tick". I haven't tried it on any of my vehicles, but a lot of people have, and I only hear good things.

 

[Mikey]

The Geek has some good videos out there, very informative!! Thanks Ron!!

 

[Snoking1127]

Rotella T6, it meets JASO MA and MA 2 spec for wet clutch..

 

[troop]

Rotella T6, it meets JASO MA and MA 2 spec for wet clutch..

Yeah... But terrible shearing.

 

[chipveres]

As I see the problem, the big box store will charge the price of a top-quality motor oil for Rotella T6. The motorcycle dealer will jack up the price because he can.

 

[Deanna777]

The 1330 clutch is much more forgiving than the 998 system. And I know some are using diesel oil. I am no expert on the diesel oil application. I don't like experimenting with customer's bikes, and I've never wanted to use it in any of mine. Maybe others will post their experience.

The issues with diesel oil have more to do with the additive build-up, mostly in the ring lands of the pistons. But there are other issues, like wear, that can be increased with the use of a diesel oil in a gas fueled engine. These all build up over time, so it takes a while to manifest.

Hi BajaRon,

Thanks for the info.

I use Valvoline 4 Stroke Full Synthetic Motorcycle oil 10 W-40, as it is designed specifically for motorcycles. Motorcycles place special demands on engine oil that automotive oils are not designed to handle. The Wet Clutch system, high RPM's and temps, and the metals found in motorcycles require special properties for proper performance and protection. 4 Stroke Synthetic uses the highest quality base oils and advanced additives to bring out the best in your machine. Meets or Exceeds API SF/SG/SJ Meets or Exceeds JASO MA2 Typical Properties:

KV100 (C5T) 14.1
KV40 (1C5T) 95.4
Viscosity Index 15.2
Density (LBS/GAL) 7.16
CCS (cP @ C) <6200 @ -25 C
Zinc (ppm) 1120
Phosphorous (ppm)1000
Sulfated Ash (mass %) 0.80
Noack (% loss) 6.0

The above info is for SAE 10W-40

Excellent wear and corrosion protection
Added protection against harmful deposits
Excellent Shear Stability
Excellent Film Strength

For use in 4-Stroke Motorcycles, including Cruisers and Off Road Motorcycles
Outstanding wet clutch protection for maximum power transfer and smooth shifting.

I used the above oil in my 2014 RTS-SE6 (Sold). I did not have any problems with it. The "1330" Ace engine ran smoothly.

Deanna

 

[rjinaz86323]

I have used Rotella T6 for almost a million miles in my motorcycles (Harleys and CanAm). Never an engine, transmission, or clutch issue, so I have no reason to change now.

 

[Dutchy]

I am not a expert (EX being a 'has been'; SPERT being a 'drip under pressure'... ) about this, but my understanding is that diesel oils have far more detergents than petrol oils. Like in the military when I was younger (err... a lot younger!) they used to use Oil Mineral Detergent (OMD) in the old Landrovers, so some people, being 'smart' put that in their cars, which were meant to run detergent free mineral oil, then wonder why their cars self-destructed. I think it had something to do with the OMD's detergent aspect cleaning things out of a normal engine where there was no need to do that, unlike in a diesel motor...

So IMHO, Diesel oils is for Diesels; Car oils is for Cars; and Bike oils is for Bikes - and they are each designed to do different things! It's not a 'one shoe fits the lot' thing!

 

[racoon]

expert (EX being a 'has been'; SPERT being a 'drip under pressure'...

The definition I was taught...

expert - x in mathematics identifies an unknown, spurt - a drip under pressure

So an expert is an unknown drip under pressure.

 

[Cobranut]

Lake Speed Jr., The Motor Oil Geek, is probably the most knowledgeable person on earth when it comes to lubrication.
I watch his videos often, and I never fail to learn something.

I watched that video a couple days ago, and the issue is diesel oil necessarily has much higher detergent levels to keep the soot generated by diesel fuel suspended in the oil, where it can be caught by the filter, at least the larger particles.
These detergents actually compete with the base oil and other additives, reducing wear protection.

I much prefer an oil formulated for the particular application, rather than a one-size fits all.

 

[Outtomunch]

I much prefer an oil formulated for the particular application, rather than a one-size fits all.

Exactly

I'm always incredulous when people think they know better than the engine manufacturer, what grade and specification of oil the manufacturer recommends for their engine and then the oil companies that spend thousands on R&D and make an oil that meets that required spec.

Knock yourself out if you think you know better

Andres

 

[Mikey]

At the end of the day Boy's and Girl's, do whatever makes you feel good! If you been doing it for a million years, keep doing it, as long as it works for YOU! Thank you Ron for another great oil thread!!!

 

[VitoNam]

* In 2019, on my first oil change on my new 2018 F3, I started using Rotella T6.
* I used T6 on every oil and filter change (every 3-4K miles) until late last riding season when I detected a slight slip in the clutch when shifting from neutral into first gear.
* Total milage on the Spyder at the time was around 23,500 miles
* Engagement of all other gears shifted smoothly as normal.
* Before the engine removal, during the Output Shaft Recall, I informed my dealer, and their tech, of the problem.
* While the engine was out (saving much labor costs) the tech took apart the clutch and found the culprit, a broken ring in the clutch pack.
* The clutch pack was replaced.
* Can Am rejected a claim on the clutch, as I suspected they would.
* Was using T6 the culprit? It'll never be known, but I'm not going to use T6 anymore.

 

[Albec]

This diesel oil must be some sort of miracle cure for everything. They use it on the Vmax forum, on my Ford Lightning group, and on the newer Coyote 5.0 engines in the Mustang to get rid of the "typewriter tick". I haven't tried it on any of my vehicles, but a lot of people have, and I only hear good things.

I've used Rotella since day one, in my 2003 diesel pickup truck.

Currently using T5.

 

[Peter Aawen]

* In 2019, on my first oil change on my new 2018 F3, I started using Rotella T6.
* I used T6 on every oil and filter change (every 3-4K miles) until late last riding season when I detected a slight slip in the clutch when shifting from neutral into first gear.
* Total milage on the Spyder at the time was around 23,500 miles
* Engagement of all other gears shifted smoothly as normal.
* Before the engine removal, during the Output Shaft Recall, I informed my dealer, and their tech, of the problem.
* While the engine was out (saving much labor costs) the tech took apart the clutch and found the culprit, a broken ring in the clutch pack.
* The clutch pack was replaced.
* Can Am rejected a claim on the clutch, as I suspected they would.
* Was using T6 the culprit? It'll never be known, but I'm not going to use T6 anymore.

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Just something else you might want to consider, there is a tendency in these internal combustion engine thingies for them to effectively 'become used to' whatever oil they've been using for a reasonable amount of time, such that if you do change the oil you run in one, you might find that there's a number of oil related issues that suddenly crop up fairly soon after said change in oil brand/spec, often expensive issues at that!!

I suspect it's got something to do with the differences in the additive package, as the base oil itself is probably pretty similar. But once you've been running an engine on one brand/type/spec oil for a while, the additive package unique to that oil has likely done all the cleaning out of whatever sludge &/or build up that it's capable of dissolving, leaving behind anything it's not capable of removing (possibly helping the now partially worn rings maintain compression, or something similar elsewhere); and it's probably also coated any bearings &/or cylinder walls etc with whatever protective material it uses as well as it can too! Then if you suddenly change to an oil that might be basically similar but may have a significantly different additive package, that new oil could just clean out a whole lot of different stuff, or maybe leave some contaminants behind that your previous oil removed; and while the new oil's protective material may be compatible with what was in the previous oil, there's also a chance that it reacts &/or combines badly with that; all of which can mean the piston rings suddenly don't work quite as well as they used to, or the cylinder walls have a lighter/heavier coating of whatever protective film is on them, or the combustion contaminants don't get dissolved & carried away/filtered out to quite the same degree; any of which might suddenly leave you with a seriously unhappy engine, simply because you changed the oil brand/type/spec?!?

So if you've been running T6 for a while, you say about 23,000 miles, largely without any concerns, and there's no real certainty that it actually was the OIL that caused your clutch issues, maybe you might want to think carefully and consider whether it's a good idea to 'suddenly' change to a different oil... If you still feel the need to change your oil brand/type/spec regardless, it still might be worth making it a gradual change rather than a full on 'sudden' change at the next oil change - have you considered running a blend of the oils for a while, making it a gradual change - over; saaay, four oil change intervals?? You could run a 75/25 % old/new oil blend for the first oil change; 50/50 for the next; 25/75 for the third; and only making it a full 100% new oil brand/type/spec oil on the fourth oil change. Doing this could be a smart move... or maybe not! But you'll likely only know it would've been smart if you DON'T do the gradual/blended change, and your engine &/or trans gives up/spits the dummy as a result! Too late then tho, isn't it?!

Just Sayin' that it's food for thought...