Interesting - does your battery die unless you keep it on a tender?

[finless]

I was studying my 2010-2012 service manual today for something else and ran across this!

I have seen reports here and there where people's battery die in a short period of time if they do not keep it on a tender or charger..

Makes me wonder if this might be the issue!
If you ever had extra keys programmed from the dealer and you have this battery issue, you might have been left in key programming mode!

 

[Bob Denman]

:shocked: You're reading the entire service manual?!? :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown::bowdown::bowdown::bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

Seriously; You may well have found a reason for all of the short battery lives that get reported in here! :clap: :thumbup:

 

[Larry rt]

Would be interesting to hear from those that had battery issues. If they had second keys made.
I only use tender during winter storage, my brother doesn't use any. Neither one has battery issues.

 

[Motorcycledave]

BOB you are the man!!!!

 

[Chupaca]

Curious..!!

How does the DESS know how many keys you have..?? :dontknow: but I guess if it is stuck in a loop for a couple of weeks :hun: it would run your battery down. Thanks for reading on...:bowdown:

 

[Grandpot]

?

This brings up the question, does the Spyder have more parasitic drain than a car or is the short time due to the battery being smaller? I'll stick an ampmeter on it tonight when I get home.

 

[LoveMyRyde]

Second Key

I was studying my 2010-2012 service manual today for something else and ran across this!

I have seen reports here and there where people's battery die in a short period of time if they do not keep it on a tender or charger..

Makes me wonder if this might be the issue!
If you ever had extra keys programmed from the dealer and you have this battery issue, you might have been left in key programming mode!

Excuse my ignorance here but I'm about to have a second key made. How do I make sure this doesn't happen to me?:dontknow:

 

[billybovine]

Really very simple to know if the DESS is still in programming mode. The engine will only run for 2 minutes at a time. Also it does not go into programing mode on it's own. A master key is needed and happens after a failed attempt to program more keys.

 

[finless]

Really very simple to know if the DESS is still in programming mode. The engine will only run for 2 minutes at a time. Also it does not go into programing mode on it's own. A master key is needed and happens after a failed attempt to program more keys.

Well.... Now that I got my master key, I went to program 2 more keys and HOLY COW is the service manual so wrong in many areas!!!!

Billy, I hate to tell you this but the run for two minute thing is BS.
I was EASILY able to program only one key. It left it in programming mod and sure as hell, with the key off it draws on the battery a lot more! The bad part is it will run for over 2 minutes.
So you cannot count on this to know if you got left in programming mode.

Seriously, the service manual is wrong all over the place with this master key programming procedure!!!

I have to think that BRP must have issued a TSB or TST on Bossweb about this. Dealers probably screwed this up many times.

I got stuck with only one working key.
I called Shawn Smoak and another guy locally that service Spyders. What I got was "Yes the old models were a pain in the rear to program, keep trying".
Well I gave up trying per the service manual and starting trying different processes until I hit it.

Bottom line this might in fact be the reason some people cannot park for more than a week or so without their battery going dead.

Don't believe me... Watch this video I shot showing all the issues. It's long winded but shows how wrong the service manual is and the issues you can have and shows how to do it properly!

Disclaimer. This is on my 2011 RTS with latest BRP software updates by BUDS from the dealer. I do not know if 2010, 2012 and 2013 also have this issue!

Key points:
1) The manual says wait for "next key" to appear. That never happens. It's NEW KEY
2) The manual doesn't tell you to press mode after turning off the key the first time. You have to!
3) The manual says you must program at least 2 keys minimum. Not true. You can program only one and get success screen.
4) The manual says if you do not program 2 keys the following will happen
- The motor will start but only run for 2 minutes this shut of. This is NOT TRUE!
- It will cause the battery to drain faster thus killing it in 1-2 weeks. THIS IS TRUE!
5) Manual says after 4th key is programmed you will get a "success" on the screen. This does not happen. On the 4th key it just boots normally.


If your Spyder cannot be parked for more than 2 weeks without the battery going dead, I seriously would go to the dealer and have him reprogram all your keys properly. Maybe show them this video so they don't screw it up! The service manual is seriously wrong! Oh an not the first time I found incorrect info in the service manual.
I swear we need access to Bossweb to get updates to it.

Here is the video.... Hope it helps someone.

Bob

 

[billybovine]

It is obvious that the service manual is incomplete and incorrect as you point out. Good video pointing out how some are having problems because of the badly written manual.

Some points I would like to share.
First the master key is for 2008 to 2013 models. Not 2010 to 2012 as stated in the video.
The 2013 service manual does include the step of press and hold the mode button for 3 seconds.
The manual is clearly wrong, even in the 2013 manual that at least 2 keys must be programmed. As per your video you can end programming at 1.
The phrase "NEXT KEY" instead of "NEW KEY" is still used in the 2013 manual.
I believe you are making an assumption that you're still in programming mode after one key. I think once "SUCCESS" is displayed. Programing mode has ended. The 2013 service manual has as a last verification step step to start the engine and let run. If it runs for more than 2 minutes it is no longer in programming mode.

 

[finless]

It is obvious that the service manual is incomplete and incorrect as you point out. Good video pointing out how some are having problems because of the badly written manual.

Some points I would like to share.
First the master key is for 2008 to 2013 models. Not 2010 to 2012 as stated in the video.
The 2013 service manual does include the step of press and hold the mode button for 3 seconds.
The manual is clearly wrong, even in the 2013 manual that at least 2 keys must be programmed. As per your video you can end programming at 1.
The phrase "NEXT KEY" instead of "NEW KEY" is still used in the 2013 manual.
I believe you are making an assumption that you're still in programming mode after one key. I think once "SUCCESS" is displayed. Programing mode has ended. The 2013 service manual has as a last verification step step to start the engine and let run. If it runs for more than 2 minutes it is no longer in programming mode.

After programming only one key and getting success, I checked AMP draw on the battery while off and it is about .3 AMPs higher then after programming 2 keys.

So even getting success appears to leave it in programming mode.

Also after only doing one key, funny noises are heard when you turn the key on. Something I have never heard before like it's opening and closing the TB or something. Once 2 are programmed I don't hear that anymore!

Bob

 

[billybovine]

After programming only one key and getting success, I checked AMP draw on the battery while off and it is about .3 AMPs higher then after programming 2 keys.

So even getting success appears to leave it in programming mode.

Also after only doing one key, funny noises are heard when you turn the key on. Something I have never heard before like it's opening and closing the TB or something. Once 2 are programmed I don't hear that anymore!

Bob

Remember that the current draw will be higher for 40 minutes after turning the key off. That is because the ECM is still powered up holding the throttle bodies shut.

 

[finless]

Remember that the current draw will be higher for 40 minutes after turning the key off. That is because the ECM is still powered up holding the throttle bodies shut.

Yep and I checked after doing 1, then checked after doing 2. There was no wait for 40 minutes.

Bob

 

[finless]

.
First the master key is for 2008 to 2013 models. Not 2010 to 2012 as stated in the video.

Question. Since the dash, mode and all that is different on a RSS/RS/ST do you know the procedure on them?
Some locals are asking if I can do keys on a RS or ST but they do not have a service manual explaining the process.

Bob

 

[billybovine]

Question. Since the dash, mode and all that is different on a RSS/RS/ST do you know the procedure on them?
Some locals are asking if I can do keys on a RS or ST but they do not have a service manual explaining the process.

Bob

It is the same procedure with the same mistakes in the 2008 to 2010 RS manual as what I can see from the pictures you posted from the 2011 RT manual. The 2013 manual covers all 3 models RS, ST and RT. There is no mention of a different procedure between them.

 

[finless]

It is the same procedure with the same mistakes in the 2008 to 2010 RS manual as what I can see from the pictures you posted from the 2011 RT manual. The 2013 manual covers all 3 models RS, ST and RT. There is no mention of a different procedure between them.

But wait.... The RS has a different cluster dash system so chances are no need to press mode on the RS? Maybe this is probably where you just turn off the key and insert the master?
Does the ST has the same cluster as the RT or is it like the RS?

Bob

 

[billybovine]

But wait.... The RS has a different cluster dash system so chances are no need to press mode on the RS? Maybe this is probably where you just turn off the key and insert the master?
Does the ST has the same cluster as the RT or is it like the RS?

Bob

Good point the RS may not need the mode button held for 3 seconds. Also may say next key instead of new key.

Electrically the 2013 ST and RT are almost identical. All the same components like the gage cluster display. Only some of the minor parts are different like taillights.