In Regards to Laser or Regualr Alignment

[OwnerOfHarriet]

Just curious -- as I have dealt with automotive alignments extensively

If the alignment is done, and then later on the rear tire is removed for repair/changing -- does that upset the alignment and it needs to be redone? --

 

[DrewNJ]

No.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

ALIGNMENT

As far as most knowledgeable Spyder owner's are concerned the only accurate alignment out there is the " Lazar " one.......Now some dealersa do have this But most don't because it is not authorized by BRP.....and it is not the way BRP does it........However the one done thru " OUTLAW / ROLO " system was developed in NASCAR and is extremely accurate ...the one from BRP is really only a S.W.A.G.........:yikes: :roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:........Mikeguyver :thumbup:................Make sure you get the right one , you won't be disappointed :yes:

 

[BikerDoc]

As far as most knowledgeable Spyder owner's are concerned the only accurate alignment out there is the " Lazar " one.......Now some dealersa do have this But most don't because it is not authorized by BRP.....and it is not the way BRP does it........However the one done thru " OUTLAW / ROLO " system was developed in NASCAR and is extremely accurate ...the one from BRP is really only a S.W.A.G.........:yikes: :roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:........Mikeguyver :thumbup:................Make sure you get the right one , you won't be disappointed :yes:

BRP has endorsed the Rolo laser alignment system and has recommended that its dealers use it.. My dealer does only rolo laser alignments

 

[scarecrow]

what dealer are you using?

 

[finless]

No.

Why do you say no?
In fact I asked this a couple days ago. The answer is yes.
Since the alignment is done aligning to the rear axel (which moves), then it can be effected. Especially if you adjust the rear axel to do belt tracking adjustment!

Bob

 

[BikerDoc]

what dealer are you using?

Central Florida Powersports, Kissimmee, Fl

 

[Chupaca]

It's new..!!

developed for NASCAR still makes it a car system. Four wheels to work with. So if you true it up to a movable object then reajust that object how does it stay true..?? If you true it up to an unaligned object would it not make the whole machine off. Now we can't deny that it is a fast accurate system and has had great results from whats reported. By all means worth having it done by those that start by truing the back wheel first and correcting the sensors. But would like to see if it stays true after a tire change....:dontknow:

 

[finless]

developed for NASCAR still makes it a car system. Four wheels to work with. So if you true it up to a movable object then reajust that object how does it stay true..?? If you true it up to an unaligned object would it not make the whole machine off. Now we can't deny that it is a fast accurate system and has had great results from whats reported. By all means worth having it done by those that start by truing the back wheel first and correcting the sensors. But would like to see if it stays true after a tire change....:dontknow:

If you have done your own belt tracking adjustment before then you know there is slop in the axel adjusters. e.g. you get it tracking and when you tighten the axel nuts the tracking changes so you have to fiddle around with this slop in the adjusters. Since this is the case then just loosening the axel nuts in theory could cause the axel to not be in the same position it was when the laser jigs were used.

Now if you fiddle with it and get the belt tracking back on target WITHOUT moving the adjusters, then I suppose in theory it is possible alignment will not be changed. But I just don't know. I also do not know how much movement of the rear axel changes the alignment and by how much?

Bottom line, one of the laser alignment guys said about 2 days ago any changes to the rear axel (like doing a belt tracking adjustment) will effect the alignment that was done. This makes sense to me because the laser process is getting all 3 tire "road patches" aligned together and it is not aligning to the frame in any way.

Bob

 

[Magdave]

Why do you say no?
In fact I asked this a couple days ago. The answer is yes.
Since the alignment is done aligning to the rear axel (which moves), then it can be effected. Especially if you adjust the rear axel to do belt tracking adjustment!

Bob

The answer Bob is Maybe. The toe in in the front is not affected and that is what is out on most of the bikes. If the rear is put back on with very close to the same belt position then no change over all, that is the key. Measure the belt position (precisely ) prior to any rear tire work and return it to the same position and all should be pretty close to the original laser alignment. The only effect is scrub numbers which will remain much better than BRP sent them out the door with.:thumbup:

 

[finless]

Measure the belt position (precisely ) prior to any rear tire work and return it to the same position and all should be pretty close to the original laser alignment.

How is this "precise measurement" done? A feeler guage between the belt the the sprocket flange?

Bob

 

[Magdave]

How is this "precise measurement" done? A feeler guage between the belt the the sprocket flange?

Bob

A good metal machinist ruler from the out side edge should suffice. Your idea would work too. JMHO

 

[DrewNJ]

Why do you say no?
In fact I asked this a couple days ago. The answer is yes.
Since the alignment is done aligning to the rear axel (which moves), then it can be effected. Especially if you adjust the rear axel to do belt tracking adjustment!

Bob

Why would you mess with the belt tracking/rear wheel alignment when pulling the rear wheel to change the tire?...which is what the OP was asking.

 

[Gray Ghost]

I am the guy that said it would need to be readjusted. Here are the reasons why I said that.

1. I watched Mike Jr at Destination Spyder this year change out a rear tire on a Spyder that had be aligned. After it was done (and he did everything possible to get it back to the same position) it was put back on the lasers. It needed to be realigned.

2. While out on the road I had to have the rear tire removed and replaced. The dealer lined up the belt and adjusted it properly. When I checked it afterwards with the lasers, the left side was toed out 1.5" overall, while the right side was toed in 1" overall. I did not check the sensors before making the adjustments, but did have to reset them after the adjustment.

When you are looking at the measurements over 150", even a slight bit off from the original position of the axle is going to make a difference. In my case I could feel the difference after the rear tire was replaced, the bike was definitely pulling to the left.

 

[DrewNJ]

If you have done your own belt tracking adjustment before then you know there is slop in the axel adjusters. e.g. you get it tracking and when you tighten the axel nuts the tracking changes so you have to fiddle around with this slop in the adjusters. Since this is the case then just loosening the axel nuts in theory could cause the axel to not be in the same position it was when the laser jigs were used.

Now if you fiddle with it and get the belt tracking back on target WITHOUT moving the adjusters, then I suppose in theory it is possible alignment will not be changed. But I just don't know. I also do not know how much movement of the rear axel changes the alignment and by how much?

Bottom line, one of the laser alignment guys said about 2 days ago any changes to the rear axel (like doing a belt tracking adjustment) will effect the alignment that was done. This makes sense to me because the laser process is getting all 3 tire "road patches" aligned together and it is not aligning to the frame in any way.

Bob

Once the tracking is initially set with the adjusters don't touch them during a tire change.
Yes there is some "slop" or "play" but work your adjustments ONLY with the axle nuts. If you leave the adjusters alone and get the wheel installed and tracking correctly with only the nuts, your golden.

 

[DrewNJ]

Also, don't over think the alignment stuff guys... The roads you ride on are not perfectly level or flat either and your alignment changes as the suspension cycles. Also, alignment specs can be personal preference too. Some people like the feel of more/less toe than others...

 

[Gray Ghost]

If you leave the adjusters alone and get the wheel installed and tracking correctly with only the nuts, your golden.

If you don't get the axle back in exactly the same position relative to the swingarm, the lasers are going to show that you are no longer aligned to the same standard as you were before.

 

[Magdave]

I am the guy that said it would need to be readjusted. Here are the reasons why I said that.

1. I watched Mike Jr at Destination Spyder this year change out a rear tire on a Spyder that had be aligned. After it was done (and he did everything possible to get it back to the same position) it was put back on the lasers. It needed to be realigned.

2. While out on the road I had to have the rear tire removed and replaced. The dealer lined up the belt and adjusted it properly. When I checked it afterwards with the lasers, the left side was toed out 1.5" overall, while the right side was toed in 1" overall. I did not check the sensors before making the adjustments, but did have to reset them after the adjustment.

When you are looking at the measurements over 150", even a slight bit off from the original position of the axle is going to make a difference. In my case I could feel the difference after the rear tire was replaced, the bike was definitely pulling to the left.

Sorry but changing the rear tire has no relationship to the front geometry and that is where the toe is. If it is set correctly then taking rear tire off changes nothing on the front end and front toe has no relationship to the rear tire. If the measurements you quoted are true using the rear tire as a reference then the rear tire needed adjusted to the left just a touch and the belt would move inward. It probably would not need much. Draw the picture both front tire point slightly left moving the rear slightly left would bring all 3 into alignment instead of readjusting the front all over again. It wasn't so much pulling to the left as the rear was going right making it seem that way(crabbing). JMHO but I ran and calibrated alignment machines that aligned 200k cars a year.:thumbup:

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Now some dealersa do have this But most don't because it is not authorized by BRP.....and it is not the way BRP does it........

From this thread: http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...RP-CALLED-and-We-Answered&p=782616#post782616

We have been advised by BRP Canada that Tuesday 3/25/14 they issued a service bulletin named
ROADSTER ALIGNMENT SPECIFICATIONS

I think the bulletin # is 2014-6 or 2014-9. The local dealer downloaded it and I read it.

 

[spyderbirds]

Rear wheel and alignments

OK have to jump in on this thread.

The least scientific and accurate thing about the laser alignment is the positioning of the handlebars straight ahead and then the resultant alignment of front wheels to rear rim.

When we do an alignment we do our best to position the handlebars straight. this is an arbitrary thing. one person may say move it left, another move it right... then the front toe in is set equally spaced in regards to the rear rim.

Unless your belt alignment was way out of whack to start. i.e. needing a lot of rear wheel adjuster movement to get proper tracking. The alignment will not be changed much when your belt is again tracking correctly. And any change will not be to total toe in or out but to the skew between front and rear wheels.

I recently replaced bearings in the rear wheel on an RT. While it was apart I disassembled and cleaned the adjusters. Hence the need to re do the belt alignment once put back together. I tried three times to adjust the belt with rear wheel jacked up. Three times I thought I had it tracking correctly and once taken for a test drive found more adjustment needed. Once I finally got belt tracking where it needed to be. Alignment was well within tolerance.

Just our two cents worth take it or leave it.