I like My New F3T but She Needs Some Improvments!

[Pirate looks at --]

So again

There's nothing wrong or different from my machine to any others - Like I said, I drove three (3) other bikes F3-S & F3T's and they were all the same. They all shift like a stink'in Harley, The motor rattles like its broke and there is back lash in the transmission.

It's embarrassing to hear this $25,000 refined stare of the art piece of machinery clank gears like a farm tractor - shame on BRP!

Two choices,can I assume that the same dealer prepped all three? Or operator error and you need to adjust your shift point. Remember, this machine does not rev like the ST you have ridden in the past?

 

[IdleUp]

Gee my 2012 shifts smoothly, I have ridden a few F3's and RT's with the SE6 and they shift just fine. Stop letting off the throttle! Oh and get he front pulley checked.

Thanks for the reply but unless you've enjoyed the total silence of a standard shift on a Spyder, you have nothing to reference to regarding a smooth or quiet shift something the SE6 is not capable of . . . .

 

[Bob Denman]

Is there any way that you can post a video of all of this clunking, thunking, and hammering? :dontknow: nojoke

 

[Pirate looks at --]

Well

Thanks for the reply but unless you've enjoyed the total silence of a standard shift on a Spyder, you have nothing to reference to regarding a smooth or quiet shift something the SE6 is not capable of . . . .

I have experienced the total silence a smoothness of the SE5 and SE6 for about 35000 miles, so we have a point of reference that YOU don't. I would get that thing fixed!:banghead:

 

[IdleUp]

I'm not trying to be negative or disrespectful, the bike has some beautiful workmanship, rides great, steers great, but any way you slice it, all these F3 bikes engines are over the top noisey and all the auto's shift terribly. I have a number of fiends who I ride with who own the same bikes so this pertains to all auto shift Spyders.

Evidently, the Genius Technicians at BRP need to understand that in order to downshift a manual transmission or in fact any standard shift transmission smoothly, you have to accomplish the following:

1) The clutch must disengage. (completely)

2) The engine must increase in speed to mesh the new lower gear rpm.

3) The shift must immediately take place and the clutch re-engaged.

This sequence of events is not happening with the Spyder auto shift. Regretfully, as the Spyder begins to downshift, the processor momentarily adds throttle at the wrong time, this error is physically evident to the rider by the momentary increase in "Speed" on each downshift as you coast to a stop. Bottom line, while the auto shift works to a degree, BRP has failed to simulate the timing of throttle - clutch and shifting, and therefore fails replicate what happens when an experienced rider shifts to lower gears when approaching a stop.

Most of the problem is due to the fact the auto-shift blips the throttle "Before" the clutch is disengaged rather than after the clutch is dis-engaged so it never sync's the rpm correctly. Another problem is the clutch never completely disengages properly during shifts like it does when the bike comes to a stop.

To be perfectly honest with you - I can shift a standard shift Spyder smoother "without using a clutch" better then BRP has managed with a SE6 clutch!

This exact problem was evident way back when I drove one of the first release 08-09 of the SE5 in Virginia. What I and others felt then, is what we're feeling now with the newer SE6 transmission.

Thanks - Mike

 

[Bob Denman]

It sounds as if your bike's ECM needs some "Finishing School" touches. nojoke
Let your dealer take it for a ride, and see what he has to say about it.

 

[Pirate looks at --]

Sorry

I'm not trying to be negative or disrespectful, the bike has some beautiful workmanship, rides great, steers great, but any way you slice it, all these F3 bikes engines are over the top noisey and all the auto's shift terribly. I have a number of fiends who I ride with who own the same bikes so this pertains to all auto shift Spyders.

Evidently, the Genius Technicians at BRP need to understand that in order to downshift a manual transmission or in fact any standard shift transmission smoothly, you have to accomplish the following:

1) The clutch must disengage. (completely)

2) The engine must increase in speed to mesh the new lower gear rpm.

3) The shift must immediately take place and the clutch re-engaged.

This sequence of events is not happening with the Spyder auto shift. Regretfully, as the Spyder begins to downshift, the processor momentarily adds throttle at the wrong time, this error is physically evident to the rider by the momentary increase in "Speed" on each downshift as you coast to a stop. Bottom line, while the auto shift works to a degree, BRP has failed to simulate the timing of throttle - clutch and shifting, and therefore fails replicate what happens when an experienced rider shifts to lower gears when approaching a stop.

Most of the problem is due to the fact the auto-shift blips the throttle "Before" the clutch is disengaged rather than after the clutch is dis-engaged so it never sync's the rpm correctly. Another problem is the clutch never completely disengages properly during shifts like it does when the bike comes to a stop.

To be perfectly honest with you - I can shift a standard shift Spyder smoother "without using a clutch" better then BRP has managed with a SE6 clutch!

This exact problem was evident way back when I drove one of the first release 08-09 of the SE5 in Virginia. What I and others felt then, is what we're feeling now with the newer SE6 transmission.

Thanks - Mike

Wow Mike, sorry you are having these issues. Just can't replicate it on either my 2013 RT or my 2016 F3. But then as I have stated I do the shifting on our machines and these things just don't happen. The F3,and F3 T are available in 2016 with the SM6 maybe you can make a trade with the dealer? Good luck though.

 

[scott16119]

Wow, what are the odds? Apparently you drove 3 defective Spyders in a row. Of all the complaints I've read about on here the poor shifting of the electric shift machines isn't one of them.

 

[IdleUp]

Ok so all you guys are saying when you slow down and the bike starts to grab lower gears and when the processor increases the throttle, none of your machines monumentally speed up? Or is it possible your just not aware of it - because since the SE5 I have never seen one not do that!

Thanks

 

[Peteoz]

Ok so all you guys are saying when you slow down and the bike starts to grab lower gears and when the processor increases the throttle, none of your machines monumentally speed up? Or is it possible your just not aware of it - because since the SE5 I have never seen one not do that!

Thanks

I agree with you Idleup, but I am an absolute newbie and have no experience to compare to, so I am no expert.

I do remember on the test ride of the F3-L, wondering what was happening as I slowed approaching a corner. It seemed to me that there was a slight increase in speed each downshift, and it was quite disconcerting (especially as I was reaching for the clutch and shift lever at that time, and getting ready to counter steer )

I doesn't really bother me now as I have accepted it as part of the Spyder's behaviour, but I would have to say that I have experienced what you are saying.

Pete

 

[Bob Denman]

Ok so all you guys are saying when you slow down and the bike starts to grab lower gears and when the processor increases the throttle, none of your machines monumentally speed up? Or is it possible your just not aware of it - because since the SE5 I have never seen one not do that!

Thanks

My 2010 used to do that; my 2014 has NEVER done it... :thumbup:
Come ride my bike: it'll make you a believer! nojoke

 

[Trbayth]

Ok so all you guys are saying when you slow down and the bike starts to grab lower gears and when the processor increases the throttle, none of your machines monumentally speed up? Or is it possible your just not aware of it - because since the SE5 I have never seen one not do that!

Thanks

I've noticed it. I learned quickly to not let the bike auto-downshift.

Honestly Mike you're :banghead: The Kool-Aide is strong here.

Still have a blast riding my Spyder once I learned to accept its idiosyncrasies.

 

[IdleUp]

LOL You guys are great for not getting pissed off at me - I hate to be so direct but "They all shift the same" If you haven't noticed it then you're fine!

I've sort of named the problem the "SE6 Bump & Klunk"!

I'm glad a few guys showed up and acknowledged the problem as well so I don't look like a jerk here. In my visits to other dealers the F3- S&T were the same, then at my selling dealer I drove one of the salesman's F3S it was the same with thousands of miles on it. I have not driven the RT(S) but I would bet $100 they are exactly the same. I'm (almost) certain BRP does not build different processors (shift sequences) for different bikes, they all bump & Clunk the throttle exactly the same.

The problem is; the shift processor and its associated "electronic throttle" is faster then the "Slow" clutch mechanics, and the result is you get yourself a nice Klunk. Bottom line, riders can down shift better then the all the genius pencil heads at BRP. If the auto-shifter worked properly you would feel absolutely nothing when the engine revs to a lower gear. The only way they will fix this is to install a dedicated "high-pressure pump" used just to the engagement of the clutch.

_____________________________________________


Regarding the noisey-ass motor we all know this rattle is not from the pistons going up and down, its either the drive train or a timing chain design problem. I'm not saying its going to fail, but there is definitely a design flaw in the motor. When you hear noise in an engine there is metal to metal somewhere!

While I'll accept the fact that some motorcycle motors rattle more than others, the Spyder motor rattle is un-acceptable. Even on a cold start at 70 degrees with the oil at thick viscosity the noise is immediately there. If you think your motor is quiet then visit a dealer and start up a few Honda's - even the 6 cyl is dead quiet and got 3 more cylinders.

If you think the motor is quiet try the following:

1) Wear a Nazi helmet with no ear protection.

2) As you're ride along at 40-50 mph try spreading your legs - the noise is so bad you won't be able to talk to your wife!


Regards - Mike

 

[Pirate looks at --]

Ok so all you guys are saying when you slow down and the bike starts to grab lower gears and when the processor increases the throttle, none of your machines monumentally speed up? Or is it possible your just not aware of it - because since the SE5 I have never seen one not do that!

Thanks

I don't let the bike grab the gears, I DOWN SHIFT THE GEARS! SORRY FOR YELLING BUT I HAVE SAID THIS OVER AND OVER!!!!! And no it does not!

 

[Highwayman2013]

Thanks for the reply but unless you've enjoyed the total silence of a standard shift on a Spyder, you have nothing to reference to regarding a smooth or quiet shift something the SE6 is not capable of . . . .

I have ridden an SM5 but not an SM6. I have ridden Honda Gold Wings that clunk, Kawasaki Vulcans that really clunk, Suzuki V Stroms that don't clunk. Some clunk, some don't. At High RPM my SE5 shifts up and down damn smooth. If this is such a big deal get something else.

 

[IdleUp]

I have ridden an SM5 but not an SM6. I have ridden Honda Gold Wings that clunk, Kawasaki Vulcans that really clunk, Suzuki V Stroms that don't clunk. Some clunk, some don't. At High RPM my SE5 shifts up and down damn smooth. If this is such a big deal get something else.

You just can't hear - believe me its klunkin . . Lol

 

[Capt. Bob]

LOL You guys are great for not getting pissed off at me - I hate to be so direct but "They all shift the same" If you haven't noticed it then you're fine!


Regarding the noisey-ass motor we all know this rattle is not from the pistons going up and down, its either the drive train or a timing chain design problem. I'm not saying its going to fail, but there is definitely a design flaw in the motor. When you hear noise in an engine there is metal to metal somewhere!

While I'll accept the fact that some motorcycle motors rattle more than others, the Spyder motor rattle is un-acceptable. Even on a cold start at 70 degrees with the oil at thick viscosity the noise is immediately there. If you think your motor is quiet then visit a dealer and start up a few Honda's - even the 6 cyl is dead quiet and got 3 more cylinders.

If you think the motor is quiet try the following:

1) Wear a Nazi helmet with no ear protection.

2) As you're ride along at 40-50 mph try spreading your legs - the noise is so bad you won't be able to talk to your wife!


Regards - Mike

Mike, I am not pissed at you and don't know you. Just wondering why you are whining louder than your supposed 1330 and not just moving on to another machine? I can't address the shift issues because I have an F3-S SM6 which shifts wonderfully with no apparent "clunks" from driveline lash. I have owned almost 100 bikes/trikes including a Goldwing and the 1330 seems like an absolutely wonderful engine to me with smooth power and torque. All mechanical engine designs have different sounds that emanate from them and so as long as the machine is functioning reliably, I greatly enjoy the different sounds that different engines/drive trains make. If you have ever owned a Ducati with desmo valves and a dry clutch, you know what clattery sounds can emanate from a bike that sounds like it is going to come apart on the first day of its existence:shocked: However, the mechanical sounds of a Duc are an acquired taste and those of us who have owned them have usually grown to love all that mechanical sound. I guess your expectations were not met with your new trike and so it sounds like you might be much happier with something else rather than railing at the engineers that designed and built it? Going on a fan site and railing against the product that we come here to share our enjoyment with each other doesn't seem like the venue to do a lot of ventilation because your feelings may hurt others enjoyment and won't really change anything in terms of engineering designs.

 

[Bob Denman]

You just can't hear - believe me its klunkin . . Lol

But mine doesn't... nojoke

This is rapidly de-evolving into the 2013 RT threads, where folks who had the problem; swore that ALL of the bikes had the problem. :banghead:

 

[IdleUp]

Mike, I am not pissed at you and don't know you. Just wondering why you are whining louder than your supposed 1330 and not just moving on to another machine? I can't address the shift issues because I have an F3-S SM6 which shifts wonderfully with no apparent "clunks" from driveline lash. I have owned almost 100 bikes/trikes including a Goldwing and the 1330 seems like an absolutely wonderful engine to me with smooth power and torque. All mechanical engine designs have different sounds that emanate from them and so as long as the machine is functioning reliably, I greatly enjoy the different sounds that different engines/drive trains make. If you have ever owned a Ducati with desmo valves and a dry clutch, you know what clattery sounds can emanate from a bike that sounds like it is going to come apart on the first day of its existence:shocked: However, the mechanical sounds of a Duc are an acquired taste and those of us who have owned them have usually grown to love all that mechanical sound. I guess your expectations were not met with your new trike and so it sounds like you might be much happier with something else rather than railing at the engineers that designed and built it? Going on a fan site and railing against the product that we come here to share our enjoyment with each other doesn't seem like the venue to do a lot of ventilation because your feelings may hurt others enjoyment and won't really change anything in terms of engineering designs.

Like I said if you can't feel the Klunk's or hear the noise, you're good to go . . . . don't worry about it!

However, just because an owner refuses to accept the fact there is something wrong with his perfect bike and does not want to acknowledge it - does not fix the shifting problem nor make it any quieter. If riders just mum up and never bitch about problems on bikes, manufactures will never improve them.

I know a lot of owners don't want to hear this about their perfect bikes but anyway you look at it - while the auto-shift does shift gears up and down, its still considered "Broke' and in need of improvement. Secondly, the Spyder engine makes excessive "un-needed" noise for a touring bike!

Thanks!!

 

[Bob Denman]

In the F3 area: IdleUp is talking about how much he likes his Slingshot...
Perhaps he's just pulling our chains, and acting like a...