handbrake/brake issue

[SethO]

I have my 09se5 with a handbrake setup and when I use it I have to pump it to get full brake engagement otherwise it goes to the bar. I bled the brakes and it did not help. we didn't add brake fluid but it was full, was wondering if there is a adjustment on the footbrake itself? it doesn't make sence that the brake would work if you pump it but and it works unless there is air in the lines? I did have the brakes 1/4 on for 20 miles when I bought it, there is about 250 miles on it now, do the brake pads wear that poorly on the spyders? also where is the best place to buy a shop mannual?

 

[spyryder]

I have my 09se5 with a handbrake setup and when I use it I have to pump it to get full brake engagement otherwise it goes to the bar. I bled the brakes and it did not help. we didn't add brake fluid but it was full, was wondering if there is a adjustment on the footbrake itself? it doesn't make sence that the brake would work if you pump it but and it works unless there is air in the lines? I did have the brakes 1/4 on for 20 miles when I bought it, there is about 250 miles on it now, do the brake pads wear that poorly on the spyders? also where is the best place to buy a shop mannual?

Try adjusting your parking brake....it makes a difference on your pedal travel.

 

[SethO]

I will, is the adjustment on the parking brake side or on the real brake side, wish I would have brought my owners manual to work

 

[fastfraser]

I have my 09se5 with a handbrake setup and when I use it I have to pump it to get full brake engagement otherwise it goes to the bar. I bled the brakes and it did not help. we didn't add brake fluid but it was full, was wondering if there is a adjustment on the footbrake itself? it doesn't make sence that the brake would work if you pump it but and it works unless there is air in the lines? I did have the brakes 1/4 on for 20 miles when I bought it, there is about 250 miles on it now, do the brake pads wear that poorly on the spyders? also where is the best place to buy a shop mannual?

Bought one on EBAY 18 bucks comes with all kinds of extra info. In a DVD format.:2thumbs:

 

[LittleJohn]

I have my 09se5 with a handbrake setup and when I use it I have to pump it to get full brake engagement otherwise it goes to the bar. I bled the brakes and it did not help. we didn't add brake fluid but it was full, was wondering if there is a adjustment on the footbrake itself? it doesn't make sence that the brake would work if you pump it but and it works unless there is air in the lines? I did have the brakes 1/4 on for 20 miles when I bought it, there is about 250 miles on it now, do the brake pads wear that poorly on the spyders? also where is the best place to buy a shop mannual?

How big is your master cylinder piston and how big is the slave your using to push the brake master? Sounds to me like your slave is a little too big for the master you chose, or the master is too small for the slave you chose. Has it done this since you insalled it? or just started?

 

[NancysToy]

Another possibility is excessive play in the mechanical portion of your system, possibly where the clevis attaches to the brake at the slave cylinder. I still worry about incorrect positioning at the slave end, and inadequate leverale, requiring long slave piston travel as a result. Little John is right on the money about cylinder sizes, a little error makes a bik difference.
-Scotty

 

[Lamonster]

The bore of the slave and the master have to be the same or else they won't work without pumping. Chances are the bore on the slave is bigger than the master. It's hard to find two that match. It's a Pi r squared thing.

 

[trikester]

The bore of the slave and the master have to be the same or else they won't work without pumping. Chances are the bore on the slave is bigger than the master. It's hard to find two that match. It's a Pi r squared thing.

See the postings by NEXUS and myself on our installations. Size does matter, especially equal bore size.

Frank

 

[SethO]

I may be a little off here but its a cable system so it would be the stock master/slave system I am wrong here? I want to go with a full hydro system. I bought a full throttle inc handbrake adaptor for my zx12r with landing gear, they sell them for stunters and stuff, with that you tapped out a section of the master and ran it up to a mod'ed hand brake that was flipped upside down, massively overcharged me and took for F????ing ever to ship.Could I not place that setup on this one?

 

[NancysToy]

I may be a little off here but its a cable system so it would be the stock master/slave system I am wrong here? I want to go with a full hydro system. I bought a full throttle inc handbrake adaptor for my zx12r with landing gear, they sell them for stunters and stuff, with that you tapped out a section of the master and ran it up to a mod'ed hand brake that was flipped upside down, massively overcharged me and took for F????ing ever to ship.Could I not place that setup on this one?

If you are having to pump up a cable sytem, you have a different kind of problem. First, check the standard brake system to see that it is working properly...no air in system, reservoirs, full, no leaks. It should work properly using the pedal. If that is OK, you have either a play or a leverage problem...or both. Too much play in the system, probably where it attaches to the original brake, could cause issues, or compound a leverage problem. More likely, you have insufficient leverage. The amount the hand brake cable moves at the top, after any free play is taken up, is all the movement you have available. You can't reliably use over half this distance (to the point the hand lever hits the bars). The place you attach at the bottom needs to move no further than that halved distance, from rest to full brake application. If it needs more than the working distance at the handlebars, you will have to pump the brakes. You will have to move the attachment point. Now if you have a cable working a slave cylinder of some sort, you have a hybrid system, and there may be different considerations. Need more detail of your arrangement to analyze this any further. Wish I were closer so I could help out in person.
-Scotty

 

[LittleJohn]

If you are having to pump up a cable sytem, you have a different kind of problem. First, check the standard brake system to see that it is working properly...no air in system, reservoirs, full, no leaks. It should work properly using the pedal. If that is OK, you have either a play or a leverage problem...or both. Too much play in the system, probably where it attaches to the original brake, could cause issues, or compound a leverage problem. More likely, you have insufficient leverage. The amount the hand brake cable moves at the top, after any free play is taken up, is all the movement you have available. You can't reliably use over half this distance (to the point the hand lever hits the bars). The place you attach at the bottom needs to move no further than that halved distance, from rest to full brake application. If it needs more than the working distance at the handlebars, you will have to pump the brakes. You will have to move the attachment point. Now if you have a cable working a slave cylinder of some sort, you have a hybrid system, and there may be different considerations. Need more detail of your arrangement to analyze this any further. Wish I were closer so I could help out in person.
-Scotty

:agree:
Give us as many details of your current system as you can. Pics if possible. Also details of system you might want to install that you discussed (plz keep them seperate, us old guys get confused easily LOL)

Im sure we'll help as much as we can over this wonderful internet thing.:sour:

 

[SethO]

here are some pics of the system, the first handle I had it did not have enough travel, I needed at least 18mm to fully engage the brake. and I got a handle that gives me more, if I adjust it more the brakes are engaged, which is how I burned my rotors with the old handle. blead the brakes, am going to blead them with a vacum pump to see if there is air somewere else, it is a moutian bike handle, 4 wheeler cable, then to a welded bracket, wish I had a better pic will get another one soon. rode to day at 32 degress for about 40 miles ( cold to say the least) and still have to pump it to stop fast. as far as I know the foot brake works to stop it, is there that much cable play?

 

[wingnut]

here are some pics of the system, the first handle I had it did not have enough travel, I needed at least 18mm to fully engage the brake. and I got a handle that gives me more, if I adjust it more the brakes are engaged, which is how I burned my rotors with the old handle. blead the brakes, am going to blead them with a vacum pump to see if there is air somewere else, it is a moutian bike handle, 4 wheeler cable, then to a welded bracket, wish I had a better pic will get another one soon. rode to day at 32 degress for about 40 miles ( cold to say the least) and still have to pump it to stop fast. as far as I know the foot brake works to stop it, is there that much cable play?

im missing somthing here

 

[LittleJohn]

here are some pics of the system, the first handle I had it did not have enough travel, I needed at least 18mm to fully engage the brake. and I got a handle that gives me more, if I adjust it more the brakes are engaged, which is how I burned my rotors with the old handle. blead the brakes, am going to blead them with a vacum pump to see if there is air somewere else, it is a moutian bike handle, 4 wheeler cable, then to a welded bracket, wish I had a better pic will get another one soon. rode to day at 32 degress for about 40 miles ( cold to say the least) and still have to pump it to stop fast. as far as I know the foot brake works to stop it, is there that much cable play?

I dont see where you have the lever mounted? It surely sounds like your not getting enough travel on the cable, or the housing is flexing and not allowing proper travel. The first thing Id try is to secure the cable at least every 4 to 5 inches to prevent it moving / flexing with zip ties. If that doesnt work, we'll shoot at the next culprit.

 

[ataDude]

One other thing I noticed in your first picture... the hard cable mount sure looks thin. Is it flexing?

.

 

[SethO]

I will secure the cable and try that, I don't think the metal on the mount is flexing. I dont have a pic of the left handlebar whe it is mounted but will get one.

 

[trikester]

Sorry, I thought you were using a master/slave hydraulic method. Please ignore my earlier posting.

 

[SethO]

here are some better pics, only the top of the cable isn't zip tied.
got the new exhaust and ti was kinda a bitch to put on, putting the air filter in too, workin nights for 4 days sucks

Seth

 

[ataDude]

Now that I've seen this pic, take the "flexing" of the bracket off the table. That part looks good!

.

here are some better pics, only the top of the cable isn't zip tied.
got the new exhaust and ti was kinda a bitch to put on, putting the air filter in too, workin nights for 4 days sucks

Seth

 

[LittleJohn]

here are some better pics, only the top of the cable isn't zip tied.
got the new exhaust and ti was kinda a bitch to put on, putting the air filter in too, workin nights for 4 days sucks

Seth

Thanks Seth. If you have the cable secured and there is no flex, i can think of only two things that are making your system not work roperly.
1) The cable does not have enough "throw" or travel in it to pull the brake far enough. This may be cured by changing the attach point closer to the pivot point, or changing the handle to one that pulls farther.

2) The cable is either stretching too much (too small diameter) or something else in the system is "giving/flexing"

3) I know, i said 2, but it could be a combination of 1 and 2.

Without looking at it inch by inch, this is the best I can do for you over the net at this point.