For those of you wanting the SE5..... here is a GREAT review:
http://www.can-amtalk.com/pressreleaseone.php?rptID=8
http://www.can-amtalk.com/pressreleaseone.php?rptID=8
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Great review of SE5 !
- Thread starter Danimal
- Start date
pphantom538
New member
Agreed but the wait for us to receive it is killing us.
Paul
Paul
You should go take a test drive on them.....
While I won't give up my SM5..... I want to see what the SE5 is like.
I believe the demo tour is in Michigan later this week and weekend.... so I'll try and go ryde one there.
Not at my dealer... but I think the one in Benton Harbor.
While I won't give up my SM5..... I want to see what the SE5 is like.
I believe the demo tour is in Michigan later this week and weekend.... so I'll try and go ryde one there.
Not at my dealer... but I think the one in Benton Harbor.
"Maybe I was too quick to "poo, poo" the idea in one of my other posts."
Well.. I'll see..... It still concerns me (in MY opinion) to have people who can't operate a clutch suddenly out riding motorcycles all over. I know..... not having to worry about the clutch gives them more time to concentrate on ryding.... and maybe that will be true... I just think a person should have a good 'feel' and 'understanding' of the drivetrain that is powering them down the road at 70mph.. especially when there is no 'cage' to protect them.
I have seen many BRP spokespeople and ads that say "Anyone can ride one of these", "I was so comfortable after only 10 minutes of riding", etc....
That kind of advertising scares me!
I think BRP has oversold the safety features in that they may give some a false sense of security.
The minute you are under the delusion you are 'safe' or 'comfortable' riding a motorcyle... may be your last minute to live.
Maybe if MSF training and testing were required... and they had something specific to the Spyder I would feel better about suddenly filling the roads with cagers on 3 wheeled 'automatics' .
Then again... I think 70% of the cagers on the road shouldn't be allowed to drive..... ;D
Well.. I'll see..... It still concerns me (in MY opinion) to have people who can't operate a clutch suddenly out riding motorcycles all over. I know..... not having to worry about the clutch gives them more time to concentrate on ryding.... and maybe that will be true... I just think a person should have a good 'feel' and 'understanding' of the drivetrain that is powering them down the road at 70mph.. especially when there is no 'cage' to protect them.
I have seen many BRP spokespeople and ads that say "Anyone can ride one of these", "I was so comfortable after only 10 minutes of riding", etc....
That kind of advertising scares me!
I think BRP has oversold the safety features in that they may give some a false sense of security.
The minute you are under the delusion you are 'safe' or 'comfortable' riding a motorcyle... may be your last minute to live.
Maybe if MSF training and testing were required... and they had something specific to the Spyder I would feel better about suddenly filling the roads with cagers on 3 wheeled 'automatics' .
Then again... I think 70% of the cagers on the road shouldn't be allowed to drive..... ;D
pphantom538
New member
"It still concerns me (in MY opinion) to have people who can't operate a clutch suddenly out riding motorcycles all over". The same opinion was thought when cars went automatic but I hardly think its universally shared today. I ordered an SE5 and have ridden clutches for many years. It a physical issue with shifting with the left foot which made me stop riding clutches. I agree the MSF should be mandatory but would add that any driver, motorcycle or car or pedal bike should take a safety course regularly. In short, the careless or oblivious driver on any machine is dangerous to themselves and others.
p
p
"I agree the MSF should be mandatory but would add that any driver, motorcycle or car or pedal bike should take a safety course regularly. In short, the careless or oblivious driver on any machine is dangerous to themselves and others."
:agree: :agree: :agree:
I've always thought that road tests should be manditory every 2 years. People change - and so do their abilities.
Well.... I can't go test an SE5 this weekend........ They were supposed to be in Benton Harbor Michigan... but cancelled. The other site they were hitting is farther away than I want to go just to feed my curiosity.
What I would really like to do is have one for an hour with the panels off and see just what all they have going on in there!
:agree: :agree: :agree:
I've always thought that road tests should be manditory every 2 years. People change - and so do their abilities.
Well.... I can't go test an SE5 this weekend........ They were supposed to be in Benton Harbor Michigan... but cancelled. The other site they were hitting is farther away than I want to go just to feed my curiosity.
What I would really like to do is have one for an hour with the panels off and see just what all they have going on in there!
to me...not worth the extra $1500. I kind of like that you need some skill to ride this and not anyone can just get on and ride one. I understand it has it purpose and some people need it. If you really want to ride one and can use a clutch with your foot, you think you would learn. Not trying to start anything..to each his own and maybe next year I will change my mind ;D
captainryder
New member
Proud to be a future SE5 owner....
You guys think that not learning a clutch is some handicapp with a roadster... THE SPYDER IS NOT A MOTORCYCLE. A MSF course has some good things like risk management, Positioning on a highway (though there won't be any side by side), and Impariments such as alcohol and drugs. But alot of things in the MSF don't apply!
1. You dont slow-look-press-roll when you turn. The VSS takes care of that.
2. Brakes are better than on motorcycle. There ABS.
3. Don't have to manipulate your grip, to grab a brake lever or clutch lever. ( I guess you guys think your pretty multi-talented) because you learned that trick in MSF. I got a ten speed bike and learned that stuff!
4. Counterweight / Balance is not a problem, You don't have to have everybody lean to make the turn. (But of course you guys took the MSF to learn how to take those crotch rockets fast around curves didn't you!)
I could go on about the reasons this is not a motorcycle. It's a different vehicle, a roadster. BRP doesn't want to be in the motorcycle business. While they want you to be safe, and I agree that everybody should have refresher saftey courses for MOTOR VEHICLES that use our roads, MSF has too many things that focus on motorcycles not safe riding on higways and in street traffic for motrovehicles. In fact the test for motrocycle licensing in many states, even the MSF has things that a Spyder can not do or is stupid to learn efficiency in. Take for instance. Keeping your balance while driving between two cones in a straight line at 4-5 MPH. But I bet I can accelerate, upshift, and decelerate and stop without skidding in the SE5 easier than in the SM5 and alot easier than a motorcycle as required in many motorcycle licensing test and MSF courses.
By the way, I took the written, passed 100%, and have my motorcycle license. The SE5 is an advance open road machine, (a roadster) that has small footprint (like a motorcycle, but not one) and the driver needs to be aware that it could be more potentially dangerous to the driver in an accident. So learn road skills, anticipate the potential risk of every driving situation, like stops at intersections, and wet roads, and blindspots. But don't associate clutching to reasons there will be more accidents from these clutchless vehicle drivers.
You guys think that not learning a clutch is some handicapp with a roadster... THE SPYDER IS NOT A MOTORCYCLE. A MSF course has some good things like risk management, Positioning on a highway (though there won't be any side by side), and Impariments such as alcohol and drugs. But alot of things in the MSF don't apply!
1. You dont slow-look-press-roll when you turn. The VSS takes care of that.
2. Brakes are better than on motorcycle. There ABS.
3. Don't have to manipulate your grip, to grab a brake lever or clutch lever. ( I guess you guys think your pretty multi-talented) because you learned that trick in MSF. I got a ten speed bike and learned that stuff!
4. Counterweight / Balance is not a problem, You don't have to have everybody lean to make the turn. (But of course you guys took the MSF to learn how to take those crotch rockets fast around curves didn't you!)
I could go on about the reasons this is not a motorcycle. It's a different vehicle, a roadster. BRP doesn't want to be in the motorcycle business. While they want you to be safe, and I agree that everybody should have refresher saftey courses for MOTOR VEHICLES that use our roads, MSF has too many things that focus on motorcycles not safe riding on higways and in street traffic for motrovehicles. In fact the test for motrocycle licensing in many states, even the MSF has things that a Spyder can not do or is stupid to learn efficiency in. Take for instance. Keeping your balance while driving between two cones in a straight line at 4-5 MPH. But I bet I can accelerate, upshift, and decelerate and stop without skidding in the SE5 easier than in the SM5 and alot easier than a motorcycle as required in many motorcycle licensing test and MSF courses.
By the way, I took the written, passed 100%, and have my motorcycle license. The SE5 is an advance open road machine, (a roadster) that has small footprint (like a motorcycle, but not one) and the driver needs to be aware that it could be more potentially dangerous to the driver in an accident. So learn road skills, anticipate the potential risk of every driving situation, like stops at intersections, and wet roads, and blindspots. But don't associate clutching to reasons there will be more accidents from these clutchless vehicle drivers.
captainryder said:
You have made some valid points, captainryder. As a motorcycle rider with 36 years experience, and 16 years teaching the Canada Safety Council Motorcycle Instruction Course, I agree that the handling characteristics of the Spyder are very different than those of a conventional two-wheeled motorcycle, just as a motorcycle with a sidecar handles very differently from a single-track motorcycle.
There are some elements of the motorcycle course that do translate to the Spyder, and I think you have acknowledged that (our CSC course is very similar to your MSF). Situational awareness is chief among them. You will need to maintain a "space cushion" around the Spyder just as you would a regular bike. It will be important to maintain good eye lead and a safe following distance. It will be necessary to scan ahead, identifying threats and planning for them. You are just as vulnerable and exposed on a Spyder as on a two-wheeler. That is why I shudder when I read posts (not yours - there was one today on the Can-Am Spyder Talk forum) that it may not be necessary to wear protective riding gear on the Spyder, since it won't fall over. True enough, it won't, but if you do have the unfortunate experience of colliding with another vehicle or a deer and end up launched down the road without your Spyder, you will be most appreciative of the helmet, gloves, boots and protective jacket and pants.
So, while you are absolutely correct that such skills as counter-steering and slow speed balance do not apply to the Spyder, I think there is some intrinsic value in taking the motorcycle course anyway (as you did). Spyder owners who are brand new to open vehicle riding may not fully appreciate the risks associated with this mode of transportation unless they take a safety course. :bigthumbsup:
Best regards,
Bruce
captainryder
New member
Your made my point even better than I did. I apologize for the smart-ass remarks. Safety skills, and the fact that the Spyder does have similar liabilities and risks to the driver as motorcycles do make courses like MFS and CSC invaluable. I would urge everyone to take some type of safety course, there is more that applies than doesn't.
Captain:
"You guys think that not learning a clutch is some handicapp with a roadster... THE SPYDER IS NOT A MOTORCYCLE. A MSF course has some good things like risk management, Positioning on a highway (though there won't be any side by side), and Impariments such as alcohol and drugs. But alot of things in the MSF don't apply!"
Which is why I said:
"Maybe if MSF training and testing were required... and they had something specific to the Spyder....."
Captain:
"I could go on about the reasons this is not a motorcycle. "
Could you write me a note that I can take to my DMV telling them that this isn't a motorcycle? ;D
They Spyder falls in-between a car and a motorcycle.... but leans more towards a motorcycle obviously.
Most that have bought them have previous motorcycle experience.
The Spyder is a performance machine - which takes *some* technical ability to drive.... and NO - I don't think the average cager is qualified to drive one.
Remember - the SE5 isn't an automatic.... you still have to 'think' and shift.
You still have to know how to corner and know the limits of the machine - and know what gear to be in at what point.
I also think that motorcycle riders (the good ones - not the crotch rocket morons) are better drivers when they are in a cage - because they have learned to be more aware.
Just remember - under the toy-like looks of the Spyder is a beast that can go 0-60 in 4 seconds. ANY type of vehicle that can do that should have a skilled driver behind the wheel.
"You guys think that not learning a clutch is some handicapp with a roadster... THE SPYDER IS NOT A MOTORCYCLE. A MSF course has some good things like risk management, Positioning on a highway (though there won't be any side by side), and Impariments such as alcohol and drugs. But alot of things in the MSF don't apply!"
Which is why I said:
"Maybe if MSF training and testing were required... and they had something specific to the Spyder....."
Captain:
"I could go on about the reasons this is not a motorcycle. "
Could you write me a note that I can take to my DMV telling them that this isn't a motorcycle? ;D
They Spyder falls in-between a car and a motorcycle.... but leans more towards a motorcycle obviously.
Most that have bought them have previous motorcycle experience.
The Spyder is a performance machine - which takes *some* technical ability to drive.... and NO - I don't think the average cager is qualified to drive one.
Remember - the SE5 isn't an automatic.... you still have to 'think' and shift.
You still have to know how to corner and know the limits of the machine - and know what gear to be in at what point.
I also think that motorcycle riders (the good ones - not the crotch rocket morons) are better drivers when they are in a cage - because they have learned to be more aware.
Just remember - under the toy-like looks of the Spyder is a beast that can go 0-60 in 4 seconds. ANY type of vehicle that can do that should have a skilled driver behind the wheel.
pphantom538
New member
All,
I have had comments amde by people that I drive my cage like a motorcycle. When I asked why they say that they comment on positioning in turns and lane as the reason. That's the MSF course & situational awarenessa s Bruce mentions. Safety courses should be mandatory for anyone driving anthing on public roads. I guess the biker community is just a bit smarter than the general puclic.
I have had comments amde by people that I drive my cage like a motorcycle. When I asked why they say that they comment on positioning in turns and lane as the reason. That's the MSF course & situational awarenessa s Bruce mentions. Safety courses should be mandatory for anyone driving anthing on public roads. I guess the biker community is just a bit smarter than the general puclic.
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