so i am driving along and it is about 3000 Km since i changed my oil .bike has been running great until now with 4000km on the clock .then i slow down for a traffic light and it doesnt downshift (auto tranny) .i manage to get it going in 3rd gear and by manually downshifting i only get stuck in 3rd and 2nd at a few intersections and i get it 120km to home .from what i have read here on the forum , dirty fiters have an effect on shifting , so i change the oil and filters and use the brp full synthetic .but i only had 4 litres and it doesnt completly solve the problem .so i buy some amsoil and add some more and it works better but sometimes it wont get out of reverse for 30 seconds or so .i start thinking about these problems and the common denominator is oil level .after 3000 km i have used up about .3 L according to other threads i have read on all the spyder forums .and that is when shifting problems start .with too little oil , auto downshifting goes wonky .and you check the oil level exactly the way the manual says and it is in spec .but for proper auto downshifting the oil level needs to be higher , where it was when you changed the oil .but i got it up a little too high and then it gets stuck in reverse for about 10 seconds .once the oil is up to operating temperature ,that problem disappears .so i changede the oil again , this time i used amsoil 10w40 , put in the exact amount and everything works perfect .and i have a litre in the frunk for when i use a bit and i need to top it up .
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Fun with oil
- Thread starter wftb
- Start date
SpyderAnn01
Active member
I'm sorry but I don't do metrics so bear with me here. My Spyder uses 1 quart of oil every 3,000 miles. Mine is a manual and I have never had any problems with shifting in or out of gears. I also use Amsoil. And welcome to spyderlovers.com.
bone crusher
Alignment Specialist
You need to find out why you are burning oil like this...topping it off isn't going to fix the reason as to why you are losing oil and damaging you bike...get it to the dealer and have them check it out, IMHO...
The Semi Auto's are very sensitive to oil levels , The manuals are not.
billybovine
Active member
It sounds like you have the same or similar problem as me. 0.3 Liters in 3000 kms used is not excessive. This is what I found with mine so far: The problem comes and goes. It does not matter if it is hot or cold. It does not matter what the oil level is, tried at add line, full line and a little over full. Does not matter what kind of oil used, BRP, Mobil 1 or Aimsoil. Changing the oil and filters is a huge improvement but is only a temporary fix at best. The problems returned after 300 to 400 kms and get worse over time. When I took it to the dealer to fix it, they changed the GPS sensor because that is what BUDS said, but that did not fix anything. When I complained that it was not fixed, they suggest it was the oil (Aimsoil at that time). They also suggested it was the Smooth Spyder Tensioner so I took it off, no improvement. I took a video as evidence after I brought it home from the dealer.
http://s1242.photobucket.com/albums/gg529/billybovine/?action=view¤t=VID_00000004.mp4
To remove as many excuses for the dealer not to fix it as possible, the tensioner was removed, the oil and filters changed. The new oil used BRP full synthetic. During the oil change I removed and measured the pressure regulator spring. The service manual stated it should be 110 mm long and mine was only 105 mm so I stretched it. I over did it a bit and ended up 112 mm long. To my surprise the shifting trouble did not return after a couple hundred kms. But did after about 2000 kms but was not serious until it was close to its oil change of 5000 kms.
It is currently at the dealer and they have had it more than a week. Let’s see what they can do this time.
http://s1242.photobucket.com/albums/gg529/billybovine/?action=view¤t=VID_00000004.mp4
To remove as many excuses for the dealer not to fix it as possible, the tensioner was removed, the oil and filters changed. The new oil used BRP full synthetic. During the oil change I removed and measured the pressure regulator spring. The service manual stated it should be 110 mm long and mine was only 105 mm so I stretched it. I over did it a bit and ended up 112 mm long. To my surprise the shifting trouble did not return after a couple hundred kms. But did after about 2000 kms but was not serious until it was close to its oil change of 5000 kms.
It is currently at the dealer and they have had it more than a week. Let’s see what they can do this time.
BajaRon
Well-known member
What oil filters are you using? The reason I ask is that it may be the BRP trans filter is not flowing enough oil. HiFlo filters flow about 18% more oil than most OEM filters (according to HiFlo). I can't say this is true for any particular OEM filter but I have not heard of this problem with anyone using the HiFlo trans filters.
It may be that some Spyders are more sensitive to oil flow than others. Just shooting in the dark here. But it is known that lack of oil flow to the trans can cause shifting and other issues. Makes a lot more sense than blaming Amsoil (or any properly spec'ed oil) or a belt tensioner (WHAT!?>!)
It is unfortunate that dealerships (some) will point the finger at completely unrelated components trying to give the customer an answer that gets them off the hook. Next they will be telling you that it's because you're riding during a full moon!
I once had a dealership tell me that my DPS was acting up because I had added a cruise control unit and they were going to remove it and charge me the labor time. Give me a break! The DPS was dead BEFORE I added the cruise control! And the new DPS works just fine with the same cruise control unit they were going to charge me to remove!
Of course the HiFlo engine filter also flows 18% more oil than the average OEM part as well.
Hope you get this resolved. And let us know what the actual cause ends up being.
billybovine
Active member
Oil filters
Ron, it appears you are commenting on my post yet you quoted wftb. I will answer your question about the filters. I use Hi-flo filters that I bought from you this spring. The dealer did not ask about filters (except "Do I change them every oil change.") or they may have blamed the filters as well. I strongly suspect a oil pressure issue because the shift rod will move almost immediately but does not seem to have enough power to move far enough. I have suggested (several times) that they do a shift oil pressure test as outlined in the service manual, but they seem unwilling to do that for some reason so far.
It is human nature to place blame somewhere else and it is my job to steer the dealer past that.
What oil filters are you using? The reason I ask is that it may be the BRP trans filter is not flowing enough oil. HiFlo filters flow about 18% more oil than most OEM filters (according to HiFlo). I can't say this is true for any particular OEM filter but I have not heard of this problem with anyone using the HiFlo trans filters.
It may be that some Spyders are more sensitive to oil flow than others. Just shooting in the dark here. But it is known that lack of oil flow to the trans can cause shifting and other issues. Makes a lot more sense than blaming Amsoil (or any properly spec'ed oil) or a belt tensioner (WHAT!?>!)
It is unfortunate that dealerships (some) will point the finger at completely unrelated components trying to give the customer an answer that gets them off the hook. Next they will be telling you that it's because you're riding during a full moon!
I once had a dealership tell me that my DPS was acting up because I had added a cruise control unit and they were going to remove it and charge me the labor time. Give me a break! The DPS was dead BEFORE I added the cruise control! And the new DPS works just fine with the same cruise control unit they were going to charge me to remove!
Of course the HiFlo engine filter also flows 18% more oil than the average OEM part as well.
Hope you get this resolved. And let us know what the actual cause ends up being.
Ron, it appears you are commenting on my post yet you quoted wftb. I will answer your question about the filters. I use Hi-flo filters that I bought from you this spring. The dealer did not ask about filters (except "Do I change them every oil change.") or they may have blamed the filters as well. I strongly suspect a oil pressure issue because the shift rod will move almost immediately but does not seem to have enough power to move far enough. I have suggested (several times) that they do a shift oil pressure test as outlined in the service manual, but they seem unwilling to do that for some reason so far.
It is human nature to place blame somewhere else and it is my job to steer the dealer past that.
thanks for the comments/replies everyone .i have put on about 500 km since changing to amsoil and the only problem i have now is it still takes about 10 seconds to get out of reverse when i back it out of the garage in the morning after first turning it on .i press the + paddle and it just blips the throttle a couple of times and then after hitting the paddle some more it shifts into neutral and then first .it does not do this when it is warm .when i back in to my parking spot at work , it goes right in to neutral with no drama at all .as far as excessive oil usage is concerned , .3 litre over 3000KM is not excessive .it is about the same as using a quart of oil in 9000 miles .considering that these are fairly hi revving hot running engines , not bad at all .the filters i am using are BRP , but i dont have the newer longer oil filter yet .it seems like there are many different ways for these problems to happen but for my bike , oil level seems to be critical so i will keep an eye on that and hope for the best .i bought my spyder with only 200 KM on it but 3 years old so there is no warranty , so i avoid trips to the dealer .the nearest one is 150KM away so it isnt just to save money , it is a matter of convenience .
ulflyer
Active member
BajaRon: Good info about Hiflo flowing 18% more oil than OEM's. Suspect thats why BRP increased the length of their transmission filters. Woulda thot they'd have contracted with Hiflo and saved a lot of money on providing the longer filter cover. Since I've used Hiflo from 600 miles to current 15500 with no transmission issues, I'll continue to use up the supply I have on hand. By then, Hiflow will prob come out with their new version to fit the longer cap.
BajaRon
Well-known member
Probably a mix and match of statements that I replied to on this one.
Though it can be a flow issue there are other possibilities, as you mention here.
"It is human nature to place blame somewhere else and it is my job to steer the dealer past that." This may be true in your case but it should never be so. A good dealership will be telling the customer what needs to be done according to the book, and happy to do it, not the other way around. But I understand that you, as the owner, have to do what needs to be done to get your ride fixed.
The one's I hate are those that tell you 'Nothing is wrong, just ride it'.
I hope these issues get corrected soon. Please let us know what the final diagnosis turns out to be.
HiFlo makes a great product and does not charge a premium price for it. One of the biggest hurdles with HiFlo filters with some customers is that they don't cost enough! Of course I am always willing to charge more if it makes the customer feel better! :roflblack:
And I think you hit the nail on the head. I wish BRP would get their filters from HiFlo (though that would put me out of the filter business). On the other hand, I'm not against a larger filter surface area either. I am going to check with HiFlo today and see if they have made any progress with the new filter dimension.
Last edited:
billybovine
Active member
It's Back
I got my Spyder back from the dealer on Friday. They installed a new pressure regulator spring in the HCM, changed the oil and filters. The transmission filter was the new larger one. The service manager was not there when I got there so I had a chance to talk to the mechanic. He said the new spring when compared to the one he took out was definitely longer and had a stiffer feel to it. He still had the old spring on the bench so we measured it and it had shortened back down to 106 mm long from the 112 mm I had stretched it to. The mechanic felt that the new spring should improve things, but no pressure test was done. The service manager showed up and in my discussions with him he felt that the oil filter was going to fix all the shifting problems and they just changed the spring because I asked them to. So far it is shifting great but I have not put many miles on it and I will not be convinced it is truly fix until it is time for the next oil change. The most noticeable change is when I back out of the driveway onto the street and I press and hold the shift paddle, I am surprised how fast it does the double shift from reverse to first.
I got my Spyder back from the dealer on Friday. They installed a new pressure regulator spring in the HCM, changed the oil and filters. The transmission filter was the new larger one. The service manager was not there when I got there so I had a chance to talk to the mechanic. He said the new spring when compared to the one he took out was definitely longer and had a stiffer feel to it. He still had the old spring on the bench so we measured it and it had shortened back down to 106 mm long from the 112 mm I had stretched it to. The mechanic felt that the new spring should improve things, but no pressure test was done. The service manager showed up and in my discussions with him he felt that the oil filter was going to fix all the shifting problems and they just changed the spring because I asked them to. So far it is shifting great but I have not put many miles on it and I will not be convinced it is truly fix until it is time for the next oil change. The most noticeable change is when I back out of the driveway onto the street and I press and hold the shift paddle, I am surprised how fast it does the double shift from reverse to first.
BajaRon
Well-known member
Too bad they did not do a pressure test. It's fine to think you've got the issue resolved but verification by testing the system is a much better way to go.
billybovine
Active member
i agree
I would prefer a logical step by step measure and test approach, instead of throwing stuff at it until something sticks. If it comes back, I am going to buy a gauge and measure it myself.
I would prefer a logical step by step measure and test approach, instead of throwing stuff at it until something sticks. If it comes back, I am going to buy a gauge and measure it myself.
MikeinGA
New member
What oil filters are you using? The reason I ask is that it may be the BRP trans filter is not flowing enough oil. HiFlo filters flow about 18% more oil than most OEM filters (according to HiFlo). I can't say this is true for any particular OEM filter but I have not heard of this problem with anyone using the HiFlo trans filters.
It may be that some Spyders are more sensitive to oil flow than others. Just shooting in the dark here. But it is known that lack of oil flow to the trans can cause shifting and other issues. Makes a lot more sense than blaming Amsoil (or any properly spec'ed oil) or a belt tensioner (WHAT!?>!)
It is unfortunate that dealerships (some) will point the finger at completely unrelated components trying to give the customer an answer that gets them off the hook. Next they will be telling you that it's because you're riding during a full moon!
I once had a dealership tell me that my DPS was acting up because I had added a cruise control unit and they were going to remove it and charge me the labor time. Give me a break! The DPS was dead BEFORE I added the cruise control! And the new DPS works just fine with the same cruise control unit they were going to charge me to remove!
Of course the HiFlo engine filter also flows 18% more oil than the average OEM part as well.
Hope you get this resolved. And let us know what the actual cause ends up being.
I use the HiFlo for both my filters on my SE5. They are better filters than the EOM filters. The guy that was on my crew when I raced was the fuel,oil, and filter expert. I gave him two sets of filters one OEM filter set and other was Hiflo. He told me that the HiFlo was better and would last longer. That's like the sparkplugs and wires that Ron sells are much better than EOM. I think they changed the filters to put people like Ron out of the oil filter business. That's IMHO.
Mike
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