Front Sprocket Failure

[jneg2]

I have under 8000 mile on my 2015 F3S. Heard a weird noise too and took bike into Sun sorts in Ft. Myers. I told them about the red dust by the front sprocket and they said all belt driven bikes have that. Where does red oxide come from from a black belt? They said it was my belt tensioner and replaced it. I still had the noise of the sprocket (grinding like a bad bearing) when I decelerated. They said that noise is common with the spyder and I told them that if I heard that kind of noise before I would not have purchased it in the first place! I asked for the Service Manager, as you can not talk directly to the technician. He rode it and put it back in the shop. They had to heat up the sprocket to get it off and the splines were damaged, as well as the shaft. See attached pictures. Three things to think about...if you see red oxide by the front sprocket bring in you bike. Two..Ask for a service manager if you don't agree with what you are hearing. Three...buy the extended service warranty. Costs so far is over $2,500 and that does not include what they may find when they take out the shaft. I will keep you posted. I am 2 weeks without a bike now and it looks like another 2 weeks for sure.:gaah:

BRP should cover it, as it is a known issue. They covered me even though I was out of warranty.

 

[Highwayman2013]

If I were going to use Loctite it would be the one developed for this for this sort of application - 660 with 7471 primer and leave for 24hrs after assembly to allow for full cure
This what has been used here.
http://www.loctite.com.au/3320_AUE_HTML.htm?nodeid=8802627715073

 

[Freddy]

By the look of the pulley splines in the first pic it appears to me that the engagement of the splines is toooo shallow.

 

[daviszoo1]

stranded

yes we did have the same issue around 20,500 miles (2015 rt limited). in our case the bolt was loose causing the spline failure. left my wife stranded about 10 miles from the dealership. they did come out & pick up our spyder..this is the better half,s bike I still have 2 wheels...our dealer did a "good will" replacement (no cost for the sprocket). did have to cover the labor...I could not get an answer whether replacing the drive belt last season could have been a factor-(would not answer if the front sprocket needs to be removed when replacing the belt) My thought was it properly torqued? (shop told me 92 lbs of torque)..going forward I will be checking the torque myself often..cannot imagine this part failing in some bad situation...:sour:

 

[PMK]

I have under 8000 mile on my 2015 F3S. Heard a weird noise too and took bike into Sun sorts in Ft. Myers. I told them about the red dust by the front sprocket and they said all belt driven bikes have that. Where does red oxide come from from a black belt? They said it was my belt tensioner and replaced it. I still had the noise of the sprocket (grinding like a bad bearing) when I decelerated. They said that noise is common with the spyder and I told them that if I heard that kind of noise before I would not have purchased it in the first place! I asked for the Service Manager, as you can not talk directly to the technician. He rode it and put it back in the shop. They had to heat up the sprocket to get it off and the splines were damaged, as well as the shaft. See attached pictures. Three things to think about...if you see red oxide by the front sprocket bring in you bike. Two..Ask for a service manager if you don't agree with what you are hearing. Three...buy the extended service warranty. Costs so far is over $2,500 and that does not include what they may find when they take out the shaft. I will keep you posted. I am 2 weeks without a bike now and it looks like another 2 weeks for sure.:gaah:

Curious, who is your Florida dealer, assuming you live in Florida.

Before they go crazy tearing your machine apart, you want it validated by measuring that the splines on the shaft are truly worn, as most are not. Additionally, ensure the dealership has contacted BRP for the most up to date installation procedure, beyond what current shop manual states.

 

[Freddy]

Just for comparison. :bbq:

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?14189-Counter-Shaft-Pulley

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...er-shaft-pulley-again&highlight=pulley+spline

 

[jcthorne]

I have under 8000 mile on my 2015 F3S. Heard a weird noise too and took bike into Sun sorts in Ft. Myers. I told them about the red dust by the front sprocket and they said all belt driven bikes have that. Where does red oxide come from from a black belt? They said it was my belt tensioner and replaced it. I still had the noise of the sprocket (grinding like a bad bearing) when I decelerated. They said that noise is common with the spyder and I told them that if I heard that kind of noise before I would not have purchased it in the first place! I asked for the Service Manager, as you can not talk directly to the technician. He rode it and put it back in the shop. They had to heat up the sprocket to get it off and the splines were damaged, as well as the shaft. See attached pictures. Three things to think about...if you see red oxide by the front sprocket bring in you bike. Two..Ask for a service manager if you don't agree with what you are hearing. Three...buy the extended service warranty. Costs so far is over $2,500 and that does not include what they may find when they take out the shaft. I will keep you posted. I am 2 weeks without a bike now and it looks like another 2 weeks for sure.:gaah:

The output shaft looks fine in the pics. I think you only need a new pulley, properly installed. Damage to the splines on the shaft are actually not the norm as the sprocket is designed to be softer than the shaft so damage to internal parts does not happen.

 

[fantabstic]

Front Sprocket failure.

Curious, who is your Florida dealer, assuming you live in Florida.

Before they go crazy tearing your machine apart, you want it validated by measuring that the splines on the shaft are truly worn, as most are not. Additionally, ensure the dealership has contacted BRP for the most up to date installation procedure, beyond what current shop manual states.

Sun Sports Ft. Myers. They said they are working with BRP and stated that "the main shaft splines are worn down and slightly twisted at the end. We will at the very least need to replace the main shaft and the pulley. Upon removal of the counter shaft we will inspect the outer bearing for any signs of wear, and more than likely advise replacement. The engine will have to be removed to do this repair. Some initial parts have been picked, but this list will be expanded upon splitting the gearbox." Ufda!

 

[fantabstic]

The output shaft looks fine in the pics. I think you only need a new pulley, properly installed. Damage to the splines on the shaft are actually not the norm as the sprocket is designed to be softer than the shaft so damage to internal parts does not happen.

jcthorne;

They said they are working with BRP and stated that "the main shaft splines are worn down and slightly twisted at the end. We will at the very least need to replace the main shaft and the pulley. Upon removal of the counter shaft we will inspect the outer bearing for any signs of wear, and more than likely advise replacement. The engine will have to be removed to do this repair. Some initial parts have been picked, but this list will be expanded upon splitting the gearbox."

 

[jcthorne]

jcthorne;

They said they are working with BRP and stated that "the main shaft splines are worn down and slightly twisted at the end. We will at the very least need to replace the main shaft and the pulley. Upon removal of the counter shaft we will inspect the outer bearing for any signs of wear, and more than likely advise replacement. The engine will have to be removed to do this repair. Some initial parts have been picked, but this list will be expanded upon splitting the gearbox."

Sounds like they can see things in person I cannot in the pics. Good to hear they and BRP are getting your bike fixed though. Hope it does not take too long. I know first hand the frustration dealing with large warranty claims with BRP.

 

[PMK]

Sounds like they can see things in person I cannot in the pics. Good to hear they and BRP are getting your bike fixed though. Hope it does not take too long. I know first hand the frustration dealing with large warranty claims with BRP.

Agree. Like you I see no wear or twisting to the splines in the photo. Myself, I would be testing the splines via installing a new pulley. Any twisting will not allow the pulley to slide onto the splines. As you said, not there so whatever they want to do.

 

[old Timer]

For the life of me, can not understand why this problem apparently continues with Can Am. HD's, Indians and a handful of other M/C brands have belt final drive with little or no problems with their front sprockets.

Can anyone explain the difference........

 

[Road-Kill]

The difference is that the Can Am belt is twice the length.
My red dusted sprocket was replaced with a new and updated front sprocket and since then no issues.
Also note that HD and Indians are the least ridden of the major brands so sprocket failure is unlikely on an unused bike.

For the life of me, can not understand why this problem apparently continues with Can Am. HD's, Indians and a handful of other M/C brands have belt final drive with little or no problems with their front sprockets.

Can anyone explain the difference........

 

[Wildrice]

Drive Pulley Torque

Yamaha Warrior from 02 - 05 had this problem it turned out that the pulley lock nut was the problem it was fix in 06, but it usually took the shaft with it. Knowing this I check mine for filings or dust whenever I think of it, also when I got it my belt was at 240, I dropped it to 200, after reading all the posts about what it should be I went to 180, didn't think I wanted that much tension on the drive pulley, also my vib went from 55-60 to just a little bit around 70. So if a few have had this problem it would probably be a good idea to check it every so often, if you reach up behind the cover you can feel the pulley if your fingers come out with black dust better check further.

My manual shows 92 # torque for my 2015 F3's. I think CanAm must have some some strong people on the assy line--they show 166 # on the axle nut that has a cotter pin to prevent the nut from falling off. Other than the clutch pack on my motorcycles I've never seen over 90 # torque.
Darrell

 

[stmike 1800]

The difference is that the Can Am belt is twice the length.
My red dusted sprocket was replaced with a new and updated front sprocket and since then no issues.
Also note that HD and Indians are the least ridden of the major brands so sprocket failure is unlikely on an unused bike.

I have seen HD's and yamaha well over 100000 ,and never heard of sprocket failure . Of course i do not get out much .

 

[jcthorne]

The difference is that the Can Am belt is twice the length.
My red dusted sprocket was replaced with a new and updated front sprocket and since then no issues.
Also note that HD and Indians are the least ridden of the major brands so sprocket failure is unlikely on an unused bike.

There is no updated sprocket. The currently available part number is the same sprocket installed on the first 100 F3 units built. I have one and just got in a sprocket from BRP parts. Same part, same part number stamped into it. The technique advised for installation has changed to include the loctite but the sprocket has not.

 

[Road-Kill]

Motorcycle Consumer News did a survey with its very diverse population years ago and HD came in at less then 4,000 miles per bike.
BMW was the most ridden at 12,000 miles.
There are always going to be brands were people ride a "gazillion" miles but the average is what I'm talking about.
All of my friends have HDs and NONE of them ride more then 2,000 miles a year.


My dealer service department tech told me the sprocket part number has changed indicating its a new version but I don't have any other proof to offer.

I have seen HD's and yamaha well over 100000 ,and never heard of sprocket failure . Of course i do not get out much .

There is no updated sprocket. The currently available part number is the same sprocket installed on the first 100 F3 units built. I have one and just got in a sprocket from BRP parts. Same part, same part number stamped into it. The technique advised for installation has changed to include the loctite but the sprocket has not.

 

[old Timer]

I have seen HD's and yamaha well over 100000 ,and never heard of sprocket failure . Of course i do not get out much .

As have I seen lots of hi mileage belt driven bikes with out any belt/pulley issues.

 

[fantabstic]

Sounds like they can see things in person I cannot in the pics. Good to hear they and BRP are getting your bike fixed though. Hope it does not take too long. I know first hand the frustration dealing with large warranty claims with BRP.

Do you have to remove the entire engine to replace the main spline? They have not opened a case file with BRP for my extended warranty. Shouldn't a senior analyst direct them on the procedure? They said they are working with BRP but a call to the factory says not.

 

[PMK]

Do you have to remove the entire engine to replace the main spline? They have not opened a case file with BRP for my extended warranty. Shouldn't a senior analyst direct them on the procedure? They said they are working with BRP but a call to the factory says not.

Yes, they will need to first gain access then remove the entire engine / gearbox assembly. Once on the bench, the cases need to be split to allow replacing the gearbox shaft.