Front End Side to Side Waggle

[Easy Rider]

Easy Rider, Did you get your issues taken care of or are you still getting the "twitchy" feeling?
What have you done personally to correct the issues other than time in the saddle?

Based on the "collective wisdom" found on here......I am about to schedule a laser alignment, and stiffer sway bar.

If you could ride one that is set up correctly you would know how it handles correctly. Yes it's different but when you get the feeling it on rails you know it's rite. I also am new to it and found that tire inflation put mine on rails. Had new for me it's improper inflation.

So far, all I really have done is make sure that the front tires have equal pressure and raised the pressure a few pounds to try and make the sidewalls a bit stiffer. It seems to have helped some......but of course I have more time in the seat now too.

Are you saying that tire inflation is the ONLY thing you changed ? And which way did you go ?
Or was it off and you just went back to the recommended settings ??

 

[Easy Rider]

and it's never seemed to "wiggle waggle" at all.

What was your previous experience on 2 wheels ?

Some people don't notice it at all, especially those who did NOT ride a 2-wheeler it seems.

 

[Easy Rider]

There is no waggle problem, the bike goes straight down the road with little to no input. IF its working properly. MANY are not.

The real problems are the bikes leave the dealership not aligned and wearing awful tires, not balanced and improper air pressures.

Do you REALLY not understand that you are contradicting yourself ?? Well you ARE.

There is no problem.......except when there IS......which is quite often apparently.

 

[Easy Rider]

It was a huge difference and I don't see how anyone could say that it is not "true" in the vernacular or the mechanical.

What exactly is that supposed to mean ?

The only argument I have is with those people who insist on continuing to say "there is no problem"......because there IS in a lot of cases.

The fact that it can be fixed does NOT erase the problem from existence.

 

[BajaRon]

You can believe whatever you want but your single personal experience really does not PROVE anything as it relates to anybody else.

You can NOT dismiss all of the owners who come here and have problems with the feeling of "dodging and weaving" at speed, some of whom have a lot of miles and some who have tried to fix it and can't.

SOME PEOPLE ARE MORE SENSITIVE TO THE DIFFERENT GEOMETRY THAN OTHERS.

What you two are saying is insulting; it smacks of "you don't know what you are talking about."
It is all in your head and you could get over it........if you just WOULD.

The difference is there and it is REAL.
To deny it does nobody any favors.

I understand your frustration. But no one is attempting to 'Dismiss' your experience or tell you, you don't know what you're talking about. Especially JC. He's a knowledgeable and very nice guy who does a lot to help improve the Spyder so the owner can enjoy it.

For those of us who have experienced a properly set up Spyder, it is so good that we want others to have the same opportunity. It's more than trying to sell more product. Personally, I really get a kick when someone calls or emails saying how much they enjoy their sway bar, shock adjusters or whatever.

People do have differing sensibilities and expectations. It is not unreasonable to have high exceptions for such an expensive machine. And the learning curve can be frustrating. Especially if you've come off a lifetime of riding 2 wheels. But the journey is worth it. The machine is sound and virtually every complaint has been address by someone in the aftermarket arena.

There are a lot of variables. But the bottom line is. Whatever your experience. The Spyder is inherently a very stable platform.

In my case it made me a bit angry when I was told the Spyder was stable. That it was my riding style that made the Spyder feel twitchy. Like I didn't know what I was doing after all those years in the saddle of a 2 wheeler! But, fact of the matter, they were right and I ended up thanking them for their input which I initially rejected. They were not trying to dismiss me or tell me I didn't know what I was experiencing. They were trying to help me get over the hump so I could really enjoy my new ride.

Hang in there! It gets a lot better! :thumbup:

 

[Easy Rider]

In my case it made me a bit angry when I was told the Spyder was stable. That it was my riding style that made the Spyder feel twitchy.

No doubt that was most of the problem......as it was in my case.

In a previous post, I noted that there are several riding techniques and skills that need to be "refreshed" to help get over the unstable feeling as much as possible.

Get over that "death grip" on the bars. This one is most often mentioned but the others aren't.

Keep your head UP and look DOWN the road.....not at the pavement right in front and not at the lines or curbs.
Regardless of what you ride, the machine will GO where you are LOOKING.
This is sometimes called "target fixation".

On curves, this means NOT looking at the shoulders but looking through the curve at where you want to go.
Once you get more than a few hours in the seat, your body will MAKE it go where you are looking.......smoothly.
And that includes off the road in the ditch.......if you are looking there. :yikes:

Lastly, don't anticipate curves. Consciously turning too soon is what scares the crap out of many new riders.
Once you get relatively comfortable on the machine, let it "roll" into a curve and don't consciously try to make it turn.
You should find that most of the turning happens more or less automatically and not a lot of effort is required.

And lastly, I don't remember seeing much of anybody mention LEANING.
If you don't get into the habit of leaning into a turn, a 3-wheeled machine will try to "throw" you off to the outside, especially if there is a bump involved in the middle of the turn. This can cause a sudden unwanted steering input that you blame on the machine when it really is the rider.

I KNOW all of those things; knew them for a LONG time and even on 2 wheels still had to consciously practice them regularly.
I am doing the same thing on the Spyder......all the time at first.
It has helped a LOT.
But it has not completely eliminated the feeling that it is trying to veer into the ditch when an unexpected pavement wave or a strong gust of wind hits.

There are a LOT of factors that enter into this.
Just don't try and tell me that there IS NO PROBLEM. :thumbup:

There is no waggle problem,

 

[DGoebel]

What was your previous experience on 2 wheels ?

Some people don't notice it at all, especially those who did NOT ride a 2-wheeler it seems.

About 45 years, from mini-bikes with techumseh engines, Suzuki TM motocross, KZ650 cafe'd out, Yamaha street cruisers, touring bikes, one buddies chopper (not for me), and so so many more, including even a Yamaha Majesty 400 scooter. Rarely kept any bike for over 3 years, just for variety's sake.
But after my crotch rocket rice burner days, I've always had a very relaxed grip, having traversed California, Nevada multiple times and then all of Germany north to south one day, when stationed there in the 80's. I think my MX riding makes me "grip" the bike saddle more than most, and use my (now excessive) body weight for maneuvers and cruising.

I've also been riding sleds since there were only Ski-doo's, and ATV's some.

A death grip on the grips just means your hands will fatigue before the rest of you, doesn't make you safer.

 

[BoilerAnimal]

Last June my wife and I rode four hours to get our Spyder Squared Away by Joe and Anne, site sponsors here. On the ride there I was constantly fighting to go straight down the road and it was actually pretty tiring to do something that should have been relaxing and fun.

After having our Spyder laser aligned, I couldn't believe the improvement. I could ride and actually take my hands off the bars and it would go down the road straight as an arrow. All the twitch was gone. I experimented with tire pressure and have settled on 18 PSI for the front and 19 PSI for the rear. I still have the Kendas on the front and a Yokohama on the rear, with plans to replace the Kendas soon.

One thing I would say is that if you have a proper alignment and equal tire pressure in the front tires but still feel your Spyder is twitchy is to pay attention to what you are doing while riding.

By virtue of having three wheels, our Spyders are subject to being pitched side to side by an uneven road surface. As you ride and the road dips, the bike will be moved slightly. If you have a tight grip on the bars, your body will tend to stay in the same position, which WILL cause a slight movement of the handlebars. When this occurs, the Spyder will respond by going in this new direction, causing you to correct for it. If you over correct because you are startled by this, you will have a ride that is one constant back and forth battle to ride in a straight line. Add gusts of wind or turbulence from a passing vehicle, and you will be fighting a never ending battle.

That's why it is important to have a loose grip while riding. Also, it's important to be relaxed enough to allow your body to maintain an upright position, which will decrease the input to the handlebars by uneven road surfaces or wind gusts.

Try being relaxed as possible and just put the palms of your hands against the bar. I just let my fingers curl naturally over the bar without gripping it. If something happens that requires a firm grip, it is very quick and easy to do.

Try it. I think you will like it.

 

[EVH]

I've had 2 spyder f3's aligned by Joe and Anne. They are both very kind and knowledgeable people about spyders. Makes a huge difference in how my f3 drives.


Eddie.

 

[DJMac]

Old habits die hard

I understand your frustration. But no one is attempting to 'Dismiss' your experience or tell you, you don't know what you're talking about. Especially JC. He's a knowledgeable and very nice guy who does a lot to help improve the Spyder so the owner can enjoy it.

For those of us who have experienced a properly set up Spyder, it is so good that we want others to have the same opportunity. It's more than trying to sell more product. Personally, I really get a kick when someone calls or emails saying how much they enjoy their sway bar, shock adjusters or whatever.

People do have differing sensibilities and expectations. It is not unreasonable to have high exceptions for such an expensive machine. And the learning curve can be frustrating. Especially if you've come off a lifetime of riding 2 wheels. But the journey is worth it. The machine is sound and virtually every complaint has been address by someone in the aftermarket arena.

There are a lot of variables. But the bottom line is. Whatever your experience. The Spyder is inherently a very stable platform.

In my case it made me a bit angry when I was told the Spyder was stable. That it was my riding style that made the Spyder feel twitchy. Like I didn't know what I was doing after all those years in the saddle of a 2 wheeler! But, fact of the matter, they were right and I ended up thanking them for their input which I initially rejected. They were not trying to dismiss me or tell me I didn't know what I was experiencing. They were trying to help me get over the hump so I could really enjoy my new ride.

Hang in there! It gets a lot better! :thumbup:

I got my 2017 Spyder RT six months ago, and before that put in over 50 years on 2-wheelers. Even on a dresser I preferred to lean on the handle bars, but that's not good when riding a Sypder. Instead, stay loose and light on the bars. I also found that "underflating" the tires helped reduce a "nervous ride" to a comfortable ride. In summary, it wasn't the alignment or the sway bar or the shocks. It was me with a little help from tire pressure.

 

[mebgardner]

Enlightening. Instructive. Thank You, All!

 

[mebgardner]

I've only had a motorcycle license since July 2017, so I am a newbie in more than just the Spyder world. Got my permit in April 2017 and hubby bought me a 2014 Suzuki Boulevard as a learner bike (new, with only a couple miles on the odometer). I rode it from April 2017 to June 2018 - traded it in at just a hair over 3,500 miles.

Dealer is 2+ hours from our house. I was warned about the shimmy and told to "relax your hands when you feel it". We had just rode the bikes down to pick her up, so I was hopping directly from 2+ hours on a two-wheel ride to a three-wheel ride. Several times on that trip home I had to stretch my fingers to the sky while keeping my palms on the grips. This did help immensely. Hubby (my toy budget) took her for a spin when we got home and commented he noticed the shimmy to and that it went away when he relaxed his hands. It took me probably 500-1,000 miles to break that "death grip" hold that causes the shimmy. I'm not sure I would consider it a wiggle-waggle, but you can feel it.

I have 4,500 miles on Angry Bug now, and the only time I feel that shimmy is when I get tense in rush hour traffic...it's the distracted drivers that cause the anxiety more so than the extra vehicles on the roadway.

That said, now that I am more confident in how she handles, have been pushing my boundaries more, and can actually relax enough to enjoy riding, I have noticed a slight drift to the right that I believe may be alignment related rather than road grade related. I'm planning on talking to my toy budget when he's home this weekend about a sway bar upgrade and alignment.

You didn't specify (or I didn't retain) which F3 you were considering. Angry Bug is a 2017 F3-T SE6. And yes, I have put more miles on her in 2 months than I put on the bike I owned for over a year. She's become my daily driver which says a lot about my growth as a rider and comfort level on her, because I never took the Boulevard on a solo ride. Also I'm not being mean by referring to hubby as the "toy budget" because he introduces me as his "retirement plan". ��

I think this is the model I'm eyeing closely, an 2017 F3-T in either manual or automatic.

However, I have not ridden the F3 yet, nor the RT. I have been told (by forum members) to ride each, as each gives a different ride. Mine will be mostly 1-up, as the good wife enjoys her own ride (a DR650), and she loves it.

So, I would say I'm a bit more than a lurker, as I try to learn from this group.

 

[BajaRon]

I think this is the model I'm eyeing closely, an 2017 F3-T in either manual or automatic.

However, I have not ridden the F3 yet, nor the RT. I have been told (by forum members) to ride each, as each gives a different ride. Mine will be mostly 1-up, as the good wife enjoys her own ride (a DR650), and she loves it.

So, I would say I'm a bit more than a lurker, as I try to learn from this group.

Definitely ride them both. My guess is you'll go for the F3. But they are definitely 2 different animals. It really depends on what you want to do with your Spyder as to which model you choose.

 

[AngryBug]

Lurk and learn!

So, I would say I'm a bit more than a lurker, as I try to learn from this group.

I say lurk as much as you want and learn all you can. There's a lot of very knowledgable folks here.

By virtue of having three wheels, our Spyders are subject to being pitched side to side by an uneven road surface. As you ride and the road dips, the bike will be moved slightly. If you have a tight grip on the bars, your body will tend to stay in the same position, which WILL cause a slight movement of the handlebars. When this occurs, the Spyder will respond by going in this new direction, causing you to correct for it. If you over correct because you are startled by this, you will have a ride that is one constant back and forth battle to ride in a straight line. Add gusts of wind or turbulence from a passing vehicle, and you will be fighting a never ending battle.

That's why it is important to have a loose grip while riding. Also, it's important to be relaxed enough to allow your body to maintain an upright position, which will decrease the input to the handlebars by uneven road surfaces or wind gusts.

Try being relaxed as possible and just put the palms of your hands against the bar. I just let my fingers curl naturally over the bar without gripping it. If something happens that requires a firm grip, it is very quick and easy to do.

As BoilerAnimal shared the nature of the beast makes it difficult to find the sweet spot on bumpy roads. In Missouri, our roads are "fixed" with chip and seal and get very bumpy, lumpy, wavy, etc. The county highway running through town is horrible and feels like you are on a bucking bronco! LOL Luckily we are very close to Kansas and I have nice, smooth roads all the way to work with the exception of about 2 miles of lurching and pitching when I cross the state line into Missouri.