Front end alignment/semi rant (Laser aligning is a MUST do)

[Lamonster]

Not there...yetpps: But my wife and I exceed that by a decent amount together.

When doing the laser alinement we use 1" in 74" for and average weight rider, about 220 lbs or less, if they are above that or are considered an aggressive rider we set the toe in to 1.25" so as you can see it's not a big difference over 74". Like I said before the passenger has little effect. How much weight you keep in your frunk has more effect.

 

[Magdave]

When doing the laser alinement we use 1" in 74" for and average weight rider, about 220 lbs or less, if they are above that or are considered an aggressive rider we set the toe in to 1.25" so as you can see it's not a big difference over 74". Like I said before the passenger has little effect. How much weight you keep in your frunk has more effect.

:thumbup: Empty bag in my frunk. .25" toe in on my Vette was the difference between wandering and running on a rail. I always had my alignments add that to total toe. It made it so much easier to drive.

 

[spacetiger]

I'm not trying to rain on the after market alignment business. As I read this thread and others that have addressed this, I keep asking myself the same question over and over. Others have raised this question as well more than once. Why should it be necessary to align a BRAND NEW SPYDER? Obviously, BRP's in house procedure is fundamentally flawed. We discussed before that BRP's criterion is based on a bean counters cost for an in house alignment. As a non owner, I realize my input carries little weight,but this to me is unacceptable. I'm not out to ruffle feathers. I'm expressing my dismay.

I tend to agree with this thought.

With as much as we are seeing - and reading - about the aftermarket alignment identifying the "misalignment" of new bikes, something is amiss. It is clear, the factory has invested quite a bit into getting the alignment correct. The setup easily surpasses the laser system being used by the aftermarket side. It would seem to me, the factory should double check there method with the aftermarket system. I think if they did this, they would see there is a difference, and I would think, investigate why there is a difference. They don't have to do it for all bikes, just a few to double check the primary means to set the alignment.

But, as it was pointed out, the difference may be within the allowable tolerance...

In any case, you'd think they monitor this site and see the comments from their clientele base and could see something is amiss. But, as we all know, the heat issue with no real resolution has come forward.

Jerry

 

[KX5062]

When doing the laser alinement we use 1" in 74" for and average weight rider, about 220 lbs or less, if they are above that or are considered an aggressive rider we set the toe in to 1.25" so as you can see it's not a big difference over 74". Like I said before the passenger has little effect. How much weight you keep in your frunk has more effect.

Mine was over 9" out at 74". :hun:


Anyway, for the sake of discussion, I've been surfing around and calling Can Am parts dealers looking for wheel bearings and a tie rod end, since it appears the outer ball joint is what is loose. I've discovered that you can not buy just the tie rod ends, you have to buy the entire tie rod. I'm a little pressed for time, so I'm not going any further than buying a tie rod, however, I think I made an interesting discovery. That being the front end of the Spyder is borrowed heavily from BRP's already existing ATV's (Outlander and Renegade) and if you look around the those parts catalogs you find you CAN buy just the tie rod ends. I'd be willing to bet they'd fit just fine. $107 vs $37 (retail pricing).

Also, since I've researched further into the hub bearings, I will sort of, kind of, retract a LITTLE of my rant about their design. I now understand more fully what they did. The bearings they used are ball bearings, they are technically called "double radial ball bearings". They are stronger than the FM photos make them appear, HOWEVER, they are not appropriates as a wheel bearing. I am correct about the loadings, because those bearings are designed for electrical motors that have NO side loadings and run at high RPMs. How BRP decided to put them into a wheel hub, first on ATV's and then onto a road going Spyder is beyond me. Now clearly they do work, as evidenced by high mile Spyders out there, but I'd be willing to bet that if checked carefully there are a whole lot of wheel bearings that need servicing (RE: replacement).

 

[spacetiger]

Mine was over 9" out at 74". :hun:


Anyway, for the sake of discussion, I've been surfing around and calling Can Am parts dealers looking for wheel bearings and a tie rod end, since it appears the outer ball joint is what is loose. I've discovered that you can not buy just the tie rod ends, you have to buy the entire tie rod. I'm a little pressed for time, so I'm not going any further than buying a tie rod, however, I think I made an interesting discovery. That being the front end of the Spyder is borrowed heavily from BRP's already existing ATV's (Outlander and Renegade) and if you look around the those parts catalogs you find you CAN buy just the tie rod ends. I'd be willing to bet they'd fit just fine. $107 vs $37 (retail pricing).

Also, since I've researched further into the hub bearings, I will sort of, kind of, retract a LITTLE of my rant about their design. I now understand more fully what they did. The bearings they used are ball bearings, they are technically called "double radial ball bearings". They are stronger than the FM photos make them appear, HOWEVER, they are not appropriates as a wheel bearing. I am correct about the loadings, because those bearings are designed for electrical motors that have NO side loadings and run at high RPMs. How BRP decided to put them into a wheel hub, first on ATV's and then onto a road going Spyder is beyond me. Now clearly they do work, as evidenced by high mile Spyders out there, but I'd be willing to bet that if checked carefully there are a whole lot of wheel bearings that need servicing (RE: replacement).

Post some pics when you get the chance, this could be an interesting thread.

Having looked at the parts fish and seeing the commonality in the design for ALL 2008-2014 Sypders, my first impression is this design works but might be susceptible to failure if stressed with the right [side] load?

Jerry

 

[zavalza]

A little bit off topic

But being from CA (Orange County) can somebody point me to this Joe and Ann people to do mine?
I mean are they sponsors on the site so I can get the data from the sponsor page

Thanks in advance

 

[Gray Ghost]

It's Squared Away and they are sponsors (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...w-SpyderLovers-Sponsor-Squared-Away-Alignment)

 

[KX5062]

Post some pics when you get the chance, this could be an interesting thread.

Having looked at the parts fish and seeing the commonality in the design for ALL 2008-2014 Sypders, my first impression is this design works but might be susceptible to failure if stressed with the right [side] load?

Jerry

I completely agree. I guess other than for the sake of discussion my point is to have people check their wheel bearings, especially those people who've had alignment issues, or people who are doing the alignments or high milers that carry heavy loads.





Interesting, but All Balls Racing makes aftermarket components for the Can Am ATV's. Their claim is they are upgraded in certain areas. All Balls has a mixed reputation in the motorcycling world, but it does off a different alternative to OEM that MIGHT work.

http://www.allballsracing.com/ymmsearch/index/searchfromhome/

 

[SpyderAnn01]

But being from CA (Orange County) can somebody point me to this Joe and Ann people to do mine?
I mean are they sponsors on the site so I can get the data from the sponsor page

Thanks in advance

Sent you a private message

 

[KX5062]

In case anybody is still reading this thread or cares, I received my replacement OEM bearings in the mail. They are made by NSK. They are a Japanese company who make a quality product. The country of origin is unknown. They have factories all around the world, including China, so who knows where they came from originally, but it does appear to be a high quality unit. :thumbup:

 

[Nils888]

In case anybody is still reading this thread or cares, I received my replacement OEM bearings in the mail. They are made by NSK. They are a Japanese company who make a quality product. The country of origin is unknown. They have factories all around the world, including China, so who knows where they came from originally, but it does appear to be a high quality unit. :thumbup:

Cool!! Are you getting your Alignment next weekend!!

 

[KX5062]

Cool!! Are you getting your Alignment next weekend!!

That's the plan, assuming BRP comes through with the tie rod.

 

[KX5062]

Well, over the weekend I took my Spyder to my local indy, who works on motorcycles and quads. He is an ace mechanic and I trust him completely. I don't have the time right now to do the repairs due to work and family stuff, or else I would. However, once I got the Spyder into him and he began the diagnosis, prior to tearing into it, he discovered the upper ball joint went south too. :banghead::banghead:

So, now I'm in a holding pattern waiting for a ball joint to be shipped priority shipping from a mid-west dealer who had them in stock. (Many different dealers did not, so I went with one that was in stock and did immediate shipping.) ray:

 

[SpyderAnn01]

Well, over the weekend I took my Spyder to my local indy, who works on motorcycles and quads. He is an ace mechanic and I trust him completely. I don't have the time right now to do the repairs due to work and family stuff, or else I would. However, once I got the Spyder into him and he began the diagnosis, prior to tearing into it, he discovered the upper ball joint went south too. :banghead::banghead:

So, now I'm in a holding pattern waiting for a ball joint to be shipped priority shipping from a mid-west dealer who had them in stock. (Many different dealers did not, so I went with one that was in stock and did immediate shipping.) ray:

:banghead: here is hoping that the ball joints get to you in a day or two. We are planning on coming to your place on Monday the 10th. But we can reschedule for another time if need be.

 

[Chaser666]

How much is a laser alignment ??

 

[KX5062]

:banghead: here is hoping that the ball joints get to you in a day or two. We are planning on coming to your place on Monday the 10th. But we can reschedule for another time if need be.

The ball joint arrived today and the tie rod is due Thursday. So we should be good to go on Monday. :clap: Thanks again to both you and Joe!!!!! :yes:

 

[Nils888]

How much is a laser alignment ??

$130.00

 

[PMK]

Having read this and other posts where some machines have had wheel bearings become worn and even the ball joint, is it viable for an owner / mechanic to pop the dust seals of either in service bearings or say that new bearing and grease it.

I ask, since vehicles I own (dirt bikes, bicycles, automobiles / trucks) with sealed style bearings, I will sometimes clean and regrease, then snap the rubber seal back in place.

As for the ball joint, and I admit being new to Spyders, why are the A arms non adjustable for castor and camber. More though, why do they seem so whippy. You can see the entire front suspension rotate as you stop for a light. Wouldn't a set of front arms similar to this make the handling better?

http://iconvehicledynamics.com/shop...rent-tacoma-billet-upper-control-arm-kit.html

Not slamming the machine or handling, it rides good, especially going straight under power, but feels like the rear swingarm flexes along with the front making things less planted. Under hard braking, the toe change is very noticed, possibly with the flexing front arms, making the machine ever so slightly weave / wander left to right.

I do plan to upgrade the shocks. I spoke with Len. Nice guy with excellent knowledge. The Elka 1 series which is all they now offer is probably fine, but my suspension geek inside me has a hard time buying emulsion shocks. I did inquire with Ohlins, but currently they have nothing.

Not a rant or slam, the vehicle does provide the fun as intended. Just sorting it out. What to mod or not mod.

PK

 

[KX5062]

Instead of pulling things apart there is a needle grease injector. I can't remember the real name right now, I have one. It is like a syringe that snaps onto your zerk style grease gun. It is designed to inject grease through the rubber fittings of ball joints that do not have zerk fittings.

I must note that the ball joint (OEM) I got is not very robust and does not appear to come with much lubricant. The rubber seal is only nominal and does not appear to seal all that well. According to the packaging is made in China, FWIW.

Again, FWIW, IMO the wheel bearings appear to be made to a much better standard than the ball joints. I again looked at the OEM packaging on the bearing and now noted (it was badly smudged) it was made in Brazil for anyone who cares or might be keeping track.

 

[NancysToy]

Greasing wheel bearings without removing them, cleaning them, inspecting them, and repacking them is a waste of time. It really accomplishes nothing. The old grease ruins the new grease, and the new grease never gets to where it has to go anyway. Overpacking the bearing can make it overheat. If it makes you feel better to squirt grease in there once in a while, do it, but it is of no value otherwise. JMHO