Floorboard 'Drop Away' & Brake Failure causes?

[Oldtimer51]

Question on the floorboard latch. What was the original #BRP reason for that sytem? Were they concerned that the brakes will fail regularly that this system would be activated and therefore was required to be there? I noticed that the bottom portion of the latch is longer than neeeds and sticks out under the 2008 RSS (at least) and has been hit with the ground and I assume has released the floorboard that triggers a "Brake failure" indicator in the dash. According to the owner It goes away as soon as the Spyder is restarted and the floorboard pushed back in place without any signifiacan change in the braking system operation. I noticed while working on this one that the Brake Master Cylinder is about 1/2 inch next to the hot exhaust pipe that does increase the temperaure of the fluid inside the Master cilinder and in long hot rides could change the viscosity of the brake fluid and decrease the braking efficiency or cause a complete brake failure. The Master cylinder has a small heat shield but I dought it that it does anything significantly. I wraped the lower portion of the exhaust with high temperature wrap shield to see if that decrease the occurence of these mistery brake isssues and floorboard dropping down. Any suggestions are welcome. Or any similar observations from other mechanics in the forum are appreciated.

 

[Peter Aawen]

Oldtimer, the 'drop away' feature is NOT there to cater for 'brake failure' events - it simply allows the rider to REALLY MASH THE PEDAL DOWN HARD in order to get the most advantage from the ABS, EBD, VSS, etc, etc. And it REALLY works.... at least for most! :lecturef_smilie:

I do a fair bit of tire testing on my Spyder, testing that includes extreme braking; and I've caused that footplate to drop away literally thousands of times during said testing and yet NOT ONCE has it coincided even vaguely with a 'brake failure' message NOR has the nose of the footplate ever touched the ground!! In fact, under REALLY hard braking, the rear end lifts pretty much to the full extent allowed by the swingarm and I suspect that lift actually raises the clearance under the toe of the footplate from what it is while riding normally! nojoke

So if your customer is getting 'brake failure' messages & frequent activation of that 'drop away footplate' feature which is intended to enhance our Spyder's extreme braking capabilities not reduce them, then I'd strongly suspect there's something else wrong!! Add to that the nose of the footplate touching the ground during those 'drop away' events, and it all adds up to something else being wrong.... :shocked:

Plus, I haven't ever experienced, seen, or heard here or elsewhere of anyone else having issues with the exhaust heating the brake fluid enough to make any measurable impact on a Spyder's braking capability or causing frequent brake failure messages, and while I realise that Texas can get pretty hot, I live & ride in South Australia where we all get to ryde in what are often arguably some of the hottest conditions that people are ever stupid enough to do that in!?! There's not too many summers that pass here where I don't leave wheel track furrows in the melting bitumen at least a couple of times, altho I must admit that I'm not too keen on hitting the road/track on the Spyder once the mercury passes 45°C these days - I must be getting soft in my old age, I used to revel in the 'over 50°' temps out on the track, but not so much now... :sour: Still, the point is that there are quite a few people who ryde these machines in places & in ways where things get pretty hot, and given that the GS/RS/RSS style Spyders did sell pretty well when they were available, surely, if over-heating brake fluid was a problem with them, we'd have seen or heard something about it here by now?!? And yet I don't recall anything much along those lines?! Can anyone else recall anything like that?! :dontknow:

Does that Spyder still have a stock exhaust? Or has it got an after market exhaust &/or cat eliminator that gets the pipe closer to the RSS's Brake Master Cylinder?? It really sounds like there's something else going on with that particular machine that's causing the 'brake failure' events - maybe it is all due to the brake fluid temps as you surmise, but that doesn't seem to be such a common issue that others have raised it, so I'd suspect the root cause of all this is not actually being found on too many other machines.... old brake fluid maybe? Fresh fluid partially contaminated by whatever was left in the ABS when the fluid was last changed maybe, possibly because the ABS didn't get activated by BUDS DURING the flush & replace process?!? Or maybe it's just the 'drop away' device isn't adjusted properly so it's activating too often &/or inappropriarely, causing a 'brake failure' message when it does?? :dontknow: But there's some food for thought! :thumbup: Good Luck!

 

[Oldtimer51]

Actually, I realize this is a 2013 actually not a 2008. I guess that I did not explained the hitting the ground issue. It looks this lady has dirven her Spyder on rocks or pavement that actually touched the lever for the floor release. I can see the scrath mark from the payment and under those situations the floorboard release will deploy. I has never been able to press the brake pedal HARD enough to activate the floorboard release mechanism and I weight 200 lbs. You must be a really hard braker to be able to do it or there is some air in the brake lines Why was this system not incorporated in for example the 2011 RT ( which does not have floorboards by the way). That one does not have any of those issues or that feature. If it was included for safety reasons them wouln't it be on all the Spyders???? Yeah, sounds weir but who knows the reason behind why it was added to some models and not others. Thanks for your observations.

 

[Peter Aawen]

All models of Spyder brakes WERE significantly upgraded for the 2013's & the (expected) 'upgrade' to the new 1330 Ace Triple cyl motor; that's when they all got the Brembo brakes - prior to that, Spyder brakes were widely considered to be just a little on the 'ho hum' side, but not after!! hyea: Besides, there's no need for a 'drop-away' floorboard on a Spyder that's only got foot pegs, is there?! :roflblack: (Sorry, but I just hadta - :shemademe_smilie: )

As for braking hard enough to make it drop away, I did mention that I do a fair bit of tire testing, including extreme braking tests, didn't I? :dontknow: If you haven't yet experienced the 'drop away' footplate activating, then you probably should go out & test it on a quiet, safe road somewhere, cos it's really something to experience!! If you haven't yet, then I'd say you've probably only ever reached about 1/3rd maybe 1/2 of your Spyder's FULL braking capacity!! All it takes is a FULL ON HARD STOMP on the brake pedal - only just make sure you are braced & ready to stop, cos it WILL stop!! First time I did a full on extreme emergency brake test on my RT it stopped so quickly I shattered the helmet faceplate on the top of the windscreen and damned near knocked my front teeth out!! :shocked:
There's not too many vehicles out there that'll out-brake a Spyder with a Ryder seriously intent on stopping NOW! They can and they do just STOP - Full Stop!! nojoke

The Brembo brakes & that drop away feature on our Spyders team together to REALLY work, especially if you STOMP HARD on the brake pedal! As for it being a factor of weight, it really isn't, it's the Hard Stomp that's critical! Amongst many others, one of the Ladies that I've trained weighed in at about 50 kg/110 pounds dripping wet, but it only took her a couple of tries to get her emergency braking down pat, and now (as instructed) she tests it out & practices at least once a month, just to be sure she's up for it if a situation that warrants it ever arises. hyea:

 

[MONK]

The floorboard breakaway feature is a brill idea. Let's say the full travel on the brake pedal is 8" (I have no idea what it is). If the floorboard didn't breakaway, you'd have to lift your foot up those 8" just to hit the brake pedal for normal braking. Let's say the normal amount of pedal travel (NOT under emergency braking) is 4". Much easier to lift your foot up that far. If you absolutely have to stop NOW, you get those extra 4" one time (or in Peters case, multiple times ) instead of every time. Again, brill idea.