Flag and National Anthem protests

[CrashDavis]

First Amendment

My two cents:

This issue is not, and has never been, a First Amendment free-speech issue. That only applies to the government, and I don't know of a single government entity that has tried to stop or punish any of the participants. That includes a certain high ranking official who called them out for it, he has not tried to use the government to stop it or punish anyone for it, he said the corporation called the NFL should do it. But, that private entity is NOT required to follow the first amendment. It is free to set it's rules anyway it sees fit (within other aspects of the law).

But even if this was a First Amendment issue, nowhere does it say that I have to listen or watch it, or approve or support it; nor do I have to like the NFL's rules or how they enforce them (or not). Not necessarily in this thread, but in others people have, and a lot of pundits elsewhere, have tried to say or imply that I do. No, I don't.

I basically quit caring about pro sports several years ago when we had several instances (in the big three: NFL, NBA, and MLB) of millionaires fighting billionaires about not getting paid enough. What started in the NFL and has already spread to the NBA, has just confirmed my belief in not caring.

Are there things wrong in the country and should be addressed? Definitely! But there has never been a country in history that has come as far as we have in trying to fix its faults. If you think you need to do something to point out those faults, then do it the right way and at the right time. When I'm paying you (by buying tickets, buying your sponsor's product, or some other way) to entertain me (and you're getting paid very well) that is NOT the time or the place. Don't be surprised that I take exception to it and quit paying you.

 

[Zip]

Seems to me this is a dispute among sports fans. For the rest of us, it has NOTHING to do with patriotism, so let it go already.

I will let it go when they do

 

[RinconRyder]

I don't have a problem with people making a social statement by kneeling when the flag flutters by or the national anthem is played. We have freedom of speech in this country and that guarantees their right. I would have a big problem should someone decide to burn the flag or stomp on it showing obvious disrespect.

The USA is not perfect and there will always be people who try to incite others by displays of public outrage but keep it civil and there is no problem with me. After all, our national ensign is useful not only as a patriotic symbol but is used as a guide to used car lots and houses for sale.

Just this morning I ate breakfast in a little cafe which had a little flag sticking out of a mason jar on everyone's table. I don't know what the owners were trying to say by doing this but it doesn't matter because it obviously was not offensive.

Let's all dial the outrage down a couple of clicks before going off in a rant. After all, if we all were to emulate our current president it would make a pretty awful place to live.

 

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

since football IS an american sport you would think they would have more respect for the country that overpays them by millions.

 

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

The flag represents freedom.
We are free to express ourselves the way we wish to as long as we don't hurt others.
Athletes are free to disrespect the national anthem by taking a knee.
Of course the team owners are also free to fire those same athletes should they choose to.
The owners are also free to support the protests as they wish.
We the fans, are free to boycott the games and the teams, or the movies, or anything else that we choose.
This is, after all, ENTERTAINMENT. It's not a necessity of life.
Read a book. Watch NETFLIX. Listen to some Old Time Radio, such as The Lone Ranger or The Shadow.
We can vote with our feet. If enough of us stop watching, then the behaviors will change.
If enough of us continue to watch, then the behaviors won't change, and just like elections, we get what we deserve.

so am i free to yell out "hey n***er get off your knee and show some respect" without any fear of reprisal from fans, players or
stadium?

 

[ARtraveler]

What part of Patriotism don't you understand? :thumbup:

 

[asp125]

If the flag and anthem are more important to you than so much else that is wrong with the country, you have your priorities mixed up. As a group of riders I often see the sentiment here "we don't care what you ride as long as you ride", and the wish that Spyder owners are inclusive rather than divisive. This thread proves otherwise. All this bitching and moaning does is to further divide forum members, something we need less of, not more.

Remember, opinions are like a$$h--es, everyone has one and they all stink.

 

[d.o.spyder-rts]

so am i free to yell out "hey n***er get off your knee and show some respect" without any fear of reprisal from fans, players or
stadium?

An emotional subject for sure. Free to yell it, yes, probably not the most intelligent thing to yell out in public. I'm sure there would be some form of reprisal and you will probably be labeled a racist. As American citizens we have the right to protest. But as stated in another post it needs to be done in the proper venue and should be done in a manner that doesn't show disrespect to anyone or anything-flag included. Not easily accomplished. Dale

 

[ThreeWheels]

so am i free to yell out "hey n***er get off your knee and show some respect" without any fear of reprisal from fans, players or
stadium?

Did you read my post ??
You are free to say what you will.
Others are free to react to it, as long as there is no violence.
If you behave like an idiot, people around you are free to treat you like an idiot.
If you act like a hero, people are free to treat you like a hero.
We also have the right to use the ignore button.
Yes, making a comment here was foolhardy.
I wonder if I can ignore the entire thread ??

 

[UtahPete]

I am proud of my country. I stand for the National Anthem. Enforce the rules as already written in the NFL handbook. What part of Patriotism don't you understand? :thumbup:

I love my country, but I'm not always proud of it. I stand for the national anthem when it's played, I even sing it as best I can. I am silent when others are reciting the pledge of allegiance to the flag, because it doesn't reflect my beliefs at all and sticks in my craw.

Am I unpatriotic? Should I leave the country rather than protest when it fails to live up to the ideals espoused in the constitution and on the statue of liberty?

If not for protesters, we would still be under British rule. If not for protesters, heretics would still be burned at the stake. Protests by the minority against abuses by the majority takes courage; it is as American and patriotic as we can get, I believe.

The really confusing thing to me is - what does any of this have to do with what happens at a football game; how is it possible to confuse the two? What would Ben Franklin have thought of all this I have to wonder...

 

[oldguyinTX]

WELL

I am staying out of this one.

 

[47ModelBrit]

A small correction.

.... The British flag is the standard of the monarch, and anti-monarchists don't revere it.....

Sorry but I have to inject a technical correction. The Union Jack is the national flag of the UK. The royal standard is totally different.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Jack
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Standard_of_the_United_Kingdom

But yes, anti-monarchists of course don't like anything to do with the monarchy! Weren't there some like that around here a couple of hundred years ago or so! I think they mentioned them briefly when I was at school in England!!!! :joke:

 

[Motorcycledave]

I LOVE MY COUNTRY

I have been to many many other countries and as far as I am concerned
none of them except Canada even come close to being as good as the
good ole U.S.A.
go ahead travel the world and see for yourself, we may not be perfect
but we are way ahead of all the others, or anyone who does not stand for the flag
and or the national anthem, wants to burn the flag, are disrespectful of our country
in any way, can leave and go live in any of the other countries on earth.

 

[Firefly]

Can't believe this thread hasn't been yanked..... it clearly should be.

Freedom of speech (which is specifically between the government and citizens) doesn't mean freedom from the consequences of that speech.

Those claiming 'protesting needs to be done in the proper venue and should be done in a proper manner' obviously don't know what the word 'protest' means.

So just what IS the proper venue and why do you get to decide when and where it is appropriate for others to protest?

Anyone remember Tommie Smith and John Carlos protesting during the anthem at the Olympics in Mexico?
They were not so popular for doing that but are now considered heroes who stood up for black rights.

This whole thing is ridiculous. I thought the liberals were supposed to be the oversensitive 'snowflakes'... sure seems the other way around with people getting so bent over kneeling during a song.
And the idea this is somehow disrespectful to the military is beyond ridiculous....

NFL players generally didn't even leave the locker room during the anthem until 2009.
I personally have never understood playing the anthem at sporting events and frankly feel it degrades any meaning it ever had. Olympics? Sure.. makes sense. Government affairs, etc.... yup. Silly sporting events? Please.
I doubt most complaining about this ever put their nachos and beer down and stand during it.

Still think this entire thread is political and should be pulled......

 

[canamjhb]

If you don't love and respect this country, I will help you pack! Go somewhere else that offers the freedom, security, consideration and benefits that the US does! Yes, we cherish freedom of speech. We have that right. Remember, freedom was paid for with the blood of patriots! To dishonor those brave men and women who laid down their lives to protect America by some entertainer or athlete who has never contributed to our nation is crazy! If the protest is police brutality, find a venue that targets that. Disrespect my country, earn my scorn. You play a game. Play that game. Meanwhile, you play that game in the United States of America. So, the society that allows you to play that game for our entertainment expects you to respect that. Pretty simple. When an entire stadium boo's when the players disrespect the country, get a clue. Our nation is at war. There are forces of evil that would love to destroy our country. Now is not a great time to ignore that fact. Players, wake up!

I agree with every thing said here.... word for word. And I will, and have, defended others rights to have different opinions. (USMC 1966-1969)

 

[UtahPete]

I have been to many many other countries and as far as I am concerned none of them except Canada even come close to being as good as the good ole U.S.A. go ahead travel the world and see for yourself, we may not be perfect but we are way ahead of all the others, or anyone who does not stand for the flag and or the national anthem, wants to burn the flag, are disrespectful of our country in any way, can leave and go live in any of the other countries on earth.

We're not leaving just because you think we don't belong here, Dave. I'm sorry you feel so threatened by dissent. Sad.

 

[UtahPete]

It is in the NFL rules for all players to stand for the National Anthem.

Then, I guess the NFL should address that violation of their rules. But, it has nothing to do with patriotism or lack thereof, does it?

 

[UtahPete]

Wow! Now I have seen it all. Being dissed because I am Patriotic, proud of, and love my country. PS. That is not going to change either. Say what you will. I guess we have come a long way.

Expressing a different point of view isn't 'dissing' anyone. Why take it personally? We're discussing ideas, I thought.

 

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

Can't believe this thread hasn't been yanked..... it clearly should be.

Freedom of speech (which is specifically between the government and citizens) doesn't mean freedom from the consequences of that speech.

Those claiming 'protesting needs to be done in the proper venue and should be done in a proper manner' obviously don't know what the word 'protest' means.

So just what IS the proper venue and why do you get to decide when and where it is appropriate for others to protest?

Anyone remember Tommie Smith and John Carlos protesting during the anthem at the Olympics in Mexico?
They were not so popular for doing that but are now considered heroes who stood up for black rights.

This whole thing is ridiculous. I thought the liberals were supposed to be the oversensitive 'snowflakes'... sure seems the other way around with people getting so bent over kneeling during a song.
And the idea this is somehow disrespectful to the military is beyond ridiculous....

NFL players generally didn't even leave the locker room during the anthem until 2009.
I personally have never understood playing the anthem at sporting events and frankly feel it degrades any meaning it ever had. Olympics? Sure.. makes sense. Government affairs, etc.... yup. Silly sporting events? Please.
I doubt most complaining about this ever put their nachos and beer down and stand during it.

Still think this entire thread is political and should be pulled......

Tommie Smith and John Carlos protesting during the anthem at the Olympics in Mexico?
They were not so popular for doing that but are now considered heroes who stood up for black rights.

Heroes!? Are you kidding, how many of todays black youth remember them or care, they are more interested in scoop doggie do or
ice anyone. They were booed and banned by the ioc after that disgraceful act. You may not agree or even trust our leaders and i don't but i still show respect to our country but not to our politicians who represent themselves.
Now if they want to stay on their knees then it better be from getting up from a tackle or in the locker room while another player is
changing.
SHOW RESPECT TO OUR COUNTRY
I do believe in the ideology of what the u.s. stands for

 

[classicvw]

so am i free to yell out "hey n***er get off your knee and show some respect" without any fear of reprisal from fans, players or
stadium?

Are you really asking that question or just feel like stirring the pot some more?