Final word on 1330 oil changes

[den1953]

Amsoil

I admit that a Victory 106 air/oil cooled v-twin isn't exactly the same motor as the ACE 1330 but it's still a four stroke motorcycle application with a wet clutch. I might be on the conservative side by completely changing it at 6000 mile intervals with a filter-only change midway at 3000, but I'd rather error on the safe side. I'm thinking ahead to when I'd have my first Spyder (either an RT or F3) and feel that I'd error on the safe side and do the same thing at 6000 mile intervals. Better safe than sorry.

 

[PW2013STL]

I've been away for a couple of months and was just wondering what the results for the shearing on the BRP oil at 9,200 miles. I will be changing my oil and filter in the next couple of days. I have about 9,100 miles on the filter and about 4,500 miles on this oil. (I did a drain and fill 1/2 way through the period) I will be sending a sample off for analysis. Going by the last time, it will take 4 weeks for the results to come back .

Doc,

I am interested to see how your oil with 4,500 miles compairs to my results with the same oil at 6,000 miles. Which lab did you use?

 

[ulflyer]

View attachment 100685I plan to use this oil in my 2014 RT its full synthetic 5w40 MOTORCYCLE OIL. WHICH has a LS JSMO rating... available on Amazon for $52.26 delivered

I've never used their full synthetic, but the Castrol Blend, also MA2, surely didn't hold up in my '11 RT. I'd suggest
sending off a lab test at 3000miles at least. Heres where I got my oil from:
http://www.powersportsuperstore.com

 

[BajaRon]

First of all, I am not trying to say that these companies put out erroneous test results. My experience has been that their results are accurate and repeatable. What i am saying is that for most people, they are irrelevant. Trucking and heavy equipment companies use oil tests to determine how far past the recommended change interval they can go. When you replace that much oil, it is worth it. I will take your word for it that they also use tests to detect engine problems. I'm sure racing teams also use oil testing to find out if their engines are developing problems but most riders never operate their engines anywhere close to the survival limit for any length of time.

I am not sure how BRP derives their oil recommendations but I can guarantee you it isn't a result of how someone "feels". In the automotive industry, millions and millions of dollars worth of vehicles and engines on test stands are destroyed each year to determine maintenance schedules. They use oil oil tests and tear downs to determine maintenance schedules. I know because i have been a part of such a study. I would be shocked if BRP didn't destroy at least a few engines and whole machines to determine the same thing. To do otherwise is just negligence. If I thought they set their maintenance schedules based on how someone feels rather than experiment, I would never buy one.

Here is my experience. I was a long distance Goldwing rider for a long time and used to know quite a few riders with near or over 6 figures on their odometer. Some of them changed their oil with synthetics at 2000 or 3000 mile intervals based on amateur advice or the results they got from an oil test. Others just used petroleum based oil at the recommended interval. I knew just as many high mileage riders riders in the second category as the first. Were these guys just lucky?

I just think good enough is good enough. If you look for problems with the expectation of finding them, you almost certainly will.

I understand what you are saying. People can generally use the OEM oil at recommended oil changes and go a long way with no noticeable problems. Reduced wear and longer oil change intervals that a better lubricant can provide does not interest everyone. I understand that for many, good enough IS good enough. And there is nothing wrong with that.

Others, however, are very interested in making improvements to suspension, intake, exhaust, tires, seating, and a host of other things. That's because 'Good Enough' has a different meaning for them.

Certainly, BRP does testing for lubricants. Just like they do testing for tires, suspension components, seating position, etc. But the fact is, there are products available which will enhance every one of these areas. I don't see that it hurts to inform people that there are better lubricants available that will give better service, improve protection, reduce wear and allow for longer service intervals. No one is saying anyone HAS to use a better lubricant any more than saying you have to upgrade your tires. It's just accurate, usable information.

The bottom line is, for some, Good Enough is Good Enough. For others, Good Enough.... Isn't! hyea:

 

[Tango]

My dealer will not install full synthetic into my Spyder 1330. He claims BRP recommends using the Semi-synthetic only. Before anyone says to get rid of the dealer, that isn't going to happen. He is Platinum Certified, and the tech is highly trained, and certified. As far as 9200 mile oil changes? I don't doubt the Spyder will do just fine, and the oil will be fine also. The Honda Gold Wing calls for 8,000 mile changes on dino oil! I won't have to worry about it. I will not put that much mileage on the Spyder between oil changes. Once a year oil changes will do for me. BRP oil and filters changed by a BRP Tech.. opcorn: Tom :thumbup:

 

[Roadster Renovations]

My dealer will not install full synthetic into my Spyder 1330. He claims BRP recommends using the Semi-synthetic only. Before anyone says to get rid of the dealer, that isn't going to happen. He is Platinum Certified, and the tech is highly trained, and certified. As far as 9200 mile oil changes? I don't doubt the Spyder will do just fine, and the oil will be fine also. The Honda Gold Wing calls for 8,000 mile changes on dino oil! I won't have to worry about it. I will not put that much mileage on the Spyder between oil changes. Once a year oil changes will do for me. BRP oil and filters changed by a BRP Tech.. opcorn: Tom :thumbup:

What is so sad about that is that I was just told by a dealer last week that full synthetic BRP oil would be fine. Wish everyone would get on the same page about this Perhaps our BRP guru could give us the straight skinny on it? We need a way to call our guy like the State Farm dude.

 

[Highwayman2013]

Side by side tests of different oils with the same bike and mileage would show a lot. If one oil shows it breaks down less than others in a true independent test then that would be the one to use. Until that is clear I'm using the BRP oil.

 

[BajaRon]

My dealer will not install full synthetic into my Spyder 1330. He claims BRP recommends using the Semi-synthetic only. Before anyone says to get rid of the dealer, that isn't going to happen. He is Platinum Certified, and the tech is highly trained, and certified. As far as 9200 mile oil changes? I don't doubt the Spyder will do just fine, and the oil will be fine also. The Honda Gold Wing calls for 8,000 mile changes on dino oil! I won't have to worry about it. I will not put that much mileage on the Spyder between oil changes. Once a year oil changes will do for me. BRP oil and filters changed by a BRP Tech.. opcorn: Tom :thumbup:

I do not understand why BRP would recommend AGAINST using a superior lubricant. I can see them saying the superior lubricant is not necessary. But to recommend against it makes no sense. Unless, maybe there is a problem with the specs. of THEIR 'Full Synthetic' oil in regards to use in the Ace motor. But I can't see that either.

In the early days I started selling Iridium spark plugs for the Spyder. I had dealers telling my customers that the Iridium spark plugs did not work well in the Spyder and could even cause damage. Again, how can a superior product not work well? I had customers pulling their Iridium spark plugs out and replacing them with the OEM copper electrode version.

Guess what BRP began putting in ALL Spyders from the factory in 2012? You got it, Iridium spark plugs.

I think this is a NON-Problem, Problem.

 

[Tango]

What is so sad about that is that I was just told by a dealer last week that full synthetic BRP oil would be fine. Wish everyone would get on the same page about this Perhaps our BRP guru could give us the straight skinny on it? We need a way to call our guy like the State Farm dude.

I have not seen Steve post in a long time. Wonder if he still works for BRP? :dontknow: Tom :spyder:

 

[Art Mann]

I
Certainly, BRP does testing for lubricants. Just like they do testing for tires, suspension components, seating position, etc. But the fact is, there are products available which will enhance every one of these areas. I don't see that it hurts to inform people that there are better lubricants available that will give better service, improve protection, reduce wear and allow for longer service intervals. No one is saying anyone HAS to use a better lubricant any more than saying you have to upgrade your tires. It's just accurate, usable information.

The bottom line is, for some, Good Enough is Good Enough. For others, Good Enough.... Isn't! hyea:

Here is the thing. If I want to improve the suspension system of my Spyder, I can buy a Ron bar with confidence because there are people who have bought them that I trust and they recommend them. If I install one, I can feel the difference for myself in a matter of minutes. On the other hand, if I want to evaluate the effect of different oil change schedules and brands on engine life, I am going to have to have multiple Spyders and I am going to have to run them for maybe 100,000 miles. If there are no obvious problems, I am going to have to tear down the engines and measure the wear very carefully with precision instruments. Just observing the changes that occur as motor oil as it is used does not answer the real question. Fortunately, in all probability, someone has already done those studies and they are employed at BRP.

Better tires, suspension components and seating (just a few of hundreds of examples) costs BRP real money and if they do enough improvements to these things, they will price themselves out of a market. It is understandable that they would compromise on quality in certain ways and that superior after market products are available. Motor oil is a different story. They make money selling it and have a strong motivation to require the most expensive synthetic and frequent changes. Why on earth would they recommend a schedule that is less than optimum?

I know I belabor the point but I just want people to have something to think about before they spend their money on something that may not help them.

 

[BajaRon]

One thing is for sure. There is no such thing as 'The Final Word' on anything having to do with oil....

 

[Marker]

One thing is for sure. There is no such thing as 'The Final Word' on anything having to do with oil....

:clap::clap:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn::bbq::bbq::bbq::bbq::agree::shocked:

 

[Yazz]

Seems everybody is looking at only one side of the coin as far as oil testing is concerned. The breakdown of oil after X miles.

There is another reason to test used oil. Looking for the metallic compounds in the oil. If you know the metallic makeup of your engine, you can tell from the test which part is going to fail first. Preventative maintenance.

Looking forward to Doc H's results...

 

[BajaRon]

Seems everybody is looking at only one side of the coin as far as oil testing is concerned. The breakdown of oil after X miles.

There is another reason to test used oil. Looking for the metallic compounds in the oil. If you know the metallic makeup of your engine, you can tell from the test which part is going to fail first. Preventative maintenance.

Looking forward to Doc H's results...

True.... :thumbup:

 

[JayBros]

Operator's Manual Instructions

Is anyone saying the below instruction from pg. 124 of the '14 RT-S manual doesn't pass the BS meter test? As I read it, the service classification is as critical for the clutch as the viscosity is for the rest of the engine but I don't know ... for sure. I, for one, am most interested in the results of Doc's test because my 3K service will be done sometime in the next two weeks and I'll have a possible baseline going forward. Nine grand is a long poke between changes. Given the investment a mid-course change may be very worth the dough.

"Use the XPS 4-STROKE SYNTH.
BLEND OIL (SUMMER) (P/N 293 600
121) or a 5W40 semi-synthetic (minimum)
or synthetic motorcycle oil
meeting the requirements for API service
SL, SJ, SH, SG or higher classification.
Always check the API service
label on the oil container."

 

[Roadster Renovations]

Is anyone saying the below instruction from pg. 124 of the '14 RT-S manual doesn't pass the BS meter test? As I read it, the service classification is as critical for the clutch as the viscosity is for the rest of the engine but I don't know ... for sure. I, for one, am most interested in the results of Doc's test because my 3K service will be done sometime in the next two weeks and I'll have a possible baseline going forward. Nine grand is a long poke between changes. Given the investment a mid-course change may be very worth the dough.

"Use the XPS 4-STROKE SYNTH.
BLEND OIL (SUMMER) (P/N 293 600
121) or a 5W40 semi-synthetic (minimum)
or synthetic motorcycle oil
meeting the requirements for API service
SL, SJ, SH, SG or higher classification.
Always check the API service
label on the oil container."

I almost went full synthetic, but I had bought the blended at the same time as the filter kit. In reality anyone can say this works for them or that works for them, but since we don't have high mileages on the engine and it's clutch and trans, I am proceeding cautiously. Additionally, this time I will be testing the oil from the tank side. If there is more clutch material in the sample than on the crankcase side from the last test (and there may be since there is a internal filter I believe) that will give us even more food for thought. Almost might need to test both drain areas separately. As far as the cost of the test, I save enough on doing the oil change myself to have about 20 oil tests run free.
One thing is sure, like Ron said, there is no final work on this...

 

[Roadster Renovations]

Oil Report IN

Oil report in. Results are not good.


OIL ANALYSIS REPORT


14000


4700


UIN 040D7BC


Gasoline Engine


16153841


Mi


Mi


Unidentified


Unidentified


SAE 5W40


25-Sep-14


21-Oct-14


24-Oct-14


41021062853


14826387


4000


Unidentified


Unidentified


SAE 5W40


Not Changed


Changed


Unit No. Can Am


Unit:


Make


Model


Serial No. 26351278-259233


Capacity: Ltrs


Site


Compartment:


Name Gasoline Engine


Make


Model


Serial No.


Customer:


HUMPHREY'S AUTOMOTIVE


2602 Clifty Street


Columbus IN


USA


All engine wear rates normal. Silicon level (dirt/sealant


material) satisfactory. Water content acceptable.


Viscosity low for specified oil grade.


Action: Please confirm grade of oil used in this


component. Check fuelling system. As oil and filter(s)


already changed, resample at a reduced service


interval to further monitor.


DIAGNOSIS


DATE SAMPLED 16-Jan-15


DATE RECEIVED 19-Jan-15


DATE REPORTED 22-Jan-15


LAB NO. 42020618198


SIF NO.


TIME ON UNIT


TIME ON OIL


OIL BRAND


OIL TYPE


OIL GRADE


OIL ADDED


FILTER


OIL CHANGED


WO NUMBER


Metals (ppm)


Iron (Fe) 46 22


Chromium (Cr) <1 <1


Lead (Pb) 3 <1


Copper (Cu) 7 5


Tin (Sn) 2 2


Aluminium (Al) 7 8


Nickel (Ni) <1 <1


Silver (Ag) <1 1


Titanium (Ti) <1 <1


Vanadium (V) <1 <1


Contaminants (ppm)


Silicon (Si) 7 11


Sodium (Na) 6 6


Potassium (K) 5 <5


Additives (ppm)


Magnesium (Mg) 47 50


Calcium (Ca) 1939 1846


Barium (Ba) <1 <1


Phosphorus (P) 686 691


Zinc (Zn) 799 767


Molybdenum (Mo) <1 <1


Boron (B) 10 10


Contaminants


Water (%) <0.05 <0.05


Coolant No No


Physical Tests


Viscosity (cSt 100C) 8.9 9.2


Physical / Chemical


Base Number (mgKOH/g) 4.7 5.5


Changed


Changed


ANALYST: Jon.Sowers


LEGEND


Severe Abnormal Caution Normal Abnormal

 

[Roadster Renovations]

I copied the results to make it easier. The second number is the Sept 13 test with 4K on the oil. The first number is the current test with 4700 on the oil. In 700 miles the viscosity dropped another .3. Next oil change I am going to a different oil. Also, this sample was taken from the clutch side.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

AND THE MEANING IS ????

I copied the results to make it easier. The second number is the Sept 13 test with 4K on the oil. The first number is the current test with 4700 on the oil. In 700 miles the viscosity dropped another .3. Next oil change I am going to a different oil. Also, this sample was taken from the clutch side.

:hun:.....So the bottom line on this is : the tester is saying for Test #1, the results were rated as ABNORMAL .......and Test # 2, the result was CAUTION NEEDED........Very bottom line is BRP BLENDED oil is DEFINATELY NOT something you are going to use again ??????.......................Mike , Thanks for this update :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

 

[BajaRon]

I copied the results to make it easier. The second number is the Sept 13 test with 4K on the oil. The first number is the current test with 4700 on the oil. In 700 miles the viscosity dropped another .3. Next oil change I am going to a different oil. Also, this sample was taken from the clutch side.

It shouldn't matter where you take the sample from as it's all the same oil going to all the same places. It just happens to be here or there when you take the sample.

What oil do you plan on trying next?