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F3 Vibration

Wrong again

Each bike shifts differently, each car shifts differently. I never said those that had the problem had never ridden a motorcycle before. I offered a solution, that has work for me and others. I hope the belt tensioner solves the issue to not have to play with the gearing and shifting. If it does not then I guess your going to have to sell it but then what would you have to bi**ch about?

That series of talking points was directed at the various vibration "deniers ". Nothing to do with you. I've got 4300 miles on my bike, and I'm tweaking it to MY liking! Madstad windshield has airflow smooth as silk, and I'm working on the annoying vibration. Stating facts is not bii..Ching and I don't need or value your opinion. Take a hike. I had 2013 art limited, 2014 RT LTD AND NOW F3. I resolved vibration issues on 2013 and 2014, and will get it done on F3. Evidently anyone that disagrees with your opinion is b##chin?. You don't know anything about me. I am a dyed in the wool can am fan. Take a hike

Ron
 
Give me a call if you continue to have problems with our web page. 1-800-451-9464 If your signed in on Spyder Lovers you should to click on baker built air wings and it will take you to our web page. If you want to go directly our web page is www.bakerbuilt.com.
Thanks, Mike
p.s. You can call the 800 number and talk with Bruce if you have particular question on how it works.
Your very kind!!!! Ill give you a call!!!!!!!
 
wippieing the belt...

Let me weigh in with some additional info. Maybe that helps figure out the problem :
I have the European set up (larger rear sprocket!)
I experience zero vibration between 60-70 mph. (doesn't matter which gear: 4.,5. or 6.)
But: Vibration starts at 85 mph!(6.gear)
I would suggest that the different belt dynamics (due to the larger sprocket) are responsible for that result.
That means the problem is the belt, not the engine.

And as I practically never drive that fast on the F3... I'm not really worried 😓

Since I am in Germany, just like Wippie, I can attest to the fact that my F#, now 2000 km, also has the vibrations, and exactly at the same speeds, 80/85 miled per hour, no matter what gear. so its the belt for sure. while cruising it does not bother me much, but I do go on the Autobahn quite a bit, and now have I two problems: just about when the vibration dissapears I am getting the rather bad airflow from BRP's windscreen! despite xscreen extension! Grrrr..
Regards fromPeter in Bretzelcountry.
 
That series of talking points was directed at the various vibration "deniers ". Nothing to do with you. I've got 4300 miles on my bike, and I'm tweaking it to MY liking! Madstad windshield has airflow smooth as silk, and I'm working on the annoying vibration. Stating facts is not bii..Ching and I don't need or value your opinion. Take a hike. I had 2013 art limited, 2014 RT LTD AND NOW F3. I resolved vibration issues on 2013 and 2014, and will get it done on F3. Evidently anyone that disagrees with your opinion is b##chin?. You don't know anything about me. I am a dyed in the wool can am fan. Take a hike

Ron

Well said, and I'm not a dyed in the wool can am fan, in fact I been a bit pissed about my purchase. After reading your posts and others I'm hopeful and going to get it figured out from the information on this forum and learn to love it, like the rest of you guys. I've been involved in other forums in the past, and have really enjoyed the experience, and it seems like there is always an irritating knowitall, that shows their ignorance often.

Red
 
Drive Belt Harmonic Vibrations


The Spyder drive belt is a tensioned string system that transmits the drive pinion torque to the rear sprocket via the tension of the upper part of the belt. The natural response of a string system is to vibrate when stretched and released at different speeds and strengths. The accumulated energy of these movements in the belt will be dissipated throughout the entire vehicle through the drive pinion and the rear sprocket.

A momentary belt vibration may be felt when the vehicle is driven under increased load/torque conditions (acceleration and/or going uphill). When the belt tension is within specification, the phenomenon may occur between 3800rpm and 4300rpm in 6th gear on 1330 engines (or between 4700rpm and 5500rpm in 5th gear on 991 engines). This vibration is felt through the handle bars, the foot rests and the seat. The harmonic vibration described here is considered "normal behavior" for such a belt drive system. In no cases is there any damage produced to the unit's mechanical components by this harmonic vibration.

Although belt vibration cannot be entirely eliminated, changing the belt tension will change the RPM/Speed at which the vibration occurs and the amplitude of its occurrences. Adjusting the drive belt tension lower will reduce the vibration level. Under high load/torque conditions, the vibration levels are diminished in amplitude and the RPM which the vibration occurs is lowered by roughly 400rpm.

For someone driving regularly between 68 and 75mph having a lower belt tension means they will feel a belt vibration when going through speeds of 62 to 65mph but at a lower amplitude, and feel less vibrations under acceleration and cruising speed. For someone driving regularly between 62 to 65mph having a belt tension set at specification means they will not feel as much the belt vibration since it occurs at higher RPM/Speed 68 and 75mph.

Statically, the belt tension is based on the distance between the drive pinion and the rear sprocket. The belt can be preset to a specific value using the tension adjustment procedure. While standing on its wheels, the belt tension of the Spyder increases due to the rotation motion of the swing arm. Further additional weight on the vehicle (driver, passenger and luggage) further increases the static tension of the belt.

Dynamically, the big picture is that the belt tension continuously varies with the road surface irregularities. Furthermore, to transmit torque from the drive pinion to the rear sprocket, the given amount of tension is decreased from the lower portion of the belt and transmitted to the upper portion of the belt. The inverse is also true when the vehicle is under deceleration. The amount of tension transferred depends on the acceleration or deceleration of the vehicle and slope of the road.

The belt tension is the factor which determines the belt vibration. The engine speed at which vibration would occur depends solely on the tension of the belt since the length and mass of the belt remains relatively constant. More vibration is transmitted to the vehicle when the tension is high. This effect can be explained by the fact that higher tension implies higher stiffness and higher stiffness implies higher transmissibility. This also explains why even though more vibrations are observed on the lower portion of the belt, only the vibration of the upper portion of the belt is strongly felt on the vehicle due to its higher transmissibility (because it has a higher tension in the majority of driving conditions).

At constant speed and zero road slope, the upper part of the belt has a higher tension than the lower part of the belt due to aerodynamic resistance. Under acceleration and/or hill climb conditions, the upper part of the belt further increases in tension. The degree of acceleration or hill climb proportionally dictates the engine speed at which occurs the belt vibration and the amplitudes of vibration transmitted to the vehicle.

By reducing the tension of the belt, the transmitted vibration at very low torque conditions can be completely removed. The transmitted vibration at higher torque is similar to that of the specification belt tension but occurs at slightly lower RPM/speed.

So basically, if you experience unpleasant vibrations have your drive belt tension checked at three different points of rotation of the rear wheel/sprocket and see how it varies, and compares to the vehicle's specification. If the belt tension changes more than 250N between 2 readings this would indicate an out of round rear sprocket which should be replaced. Otherwise, you can adjust the tension to change the speed and amplitude at which it occurs.
 
Well said, and I'm not a dyed in the wool can am fan, in fact I been a bit pissed about my purchase. After reading your posts and others I'm hopeful and going to get it figured out from the information on this forum and learn to love it, like the rest of you guys. I've been involved in other forums in the past, and have really enjoyed the experience, and it seems like there is always an irritating knowitall, that shows their ignorance often.

Red

God, what meatheads!!! now I am a knowitall, LOL how sad that some can state opinions and others cant.
 
This reminds me of something I was thinking the other day. I was behind a Harley at a traffic light and the bike and the poor bast**rd was shaking so hard, I thought the fillings in his teeth were going to drop right on the ground any minute. I was thinking that if he had been a Spyder rider he would have just shot himself on the spot. The 1330 vibration last for a few annoying seconds and we are moaning and groaning. I am hoping that BRP can come up with a fix or other fix from a vendor is proven to work. If not, well we still have an almost perfect machine!!!
 
God, what meatheads!!! now I am a knowitall, LOL how sad that some can state opinions and others cant.

So I guess the meatheads are Redstar and Ronbo.
So why don't you guys figure it out and leave the rest of us out of it? just sayin
:bdh:
I come on to here to learn and share ideas !
 
Since I am in Germany, just like Wippie, I can attest to the fact that my F#, now 2000 km, also has the vibrations, and exactly at the same speeds, 80/85 miled per hour, no matter what gear. so its the belt for sure. while cruising it does not bother me much, but I do go on the Autobahn quite a bit, and now have I two problems: just about when the vibration dissapears I am getting the rather bad airflow from BRP's windscreen! despite xscreen extension! Grrrr..
Regards fromPeter in Bretzelcountry.

I have to agree with Peter here. The F3 is a near-perfect machine, with the two issues being the belt vibes and the turbulence with the windshield installed. Other than that, it is a freakin' phenomenal piece of work.

Considering how bad so many other machines vibrate, we are getting fussy, but regardless of how well a new machine performs we will always strive to make it even better.
 
I have to agree with Peter here. The F3 is a near-perfect machine, with the two issues being the belt vibes and the turbulence with the windshield installed. Other than that, it is a freakin' phenomenal piece of work.

Considering how bad so many other machines vibrate, we are getting fussy, but regardless of how well a new machine performs we will always strive to make it even better.
Get a Madstad and turbulence is gone.
 

The Spyder drive belt is a tensioned string system that transmits the drive pinion torque to the rear sprocket via the tension of the upper part of the belt. The natural response of a string system is to vibrate when stretched and released at different speeds and strengths. The accumulated energy of these movements in the belt will be dissipated throughout the entire vehicle through the drive pinion and the rear sprocket.

A momentary belt vibration may be felt when the vehicle is driven under increased load/torque conditions (acceleration and/or going uphill). When the belt tension is within specification, the phenomenon may occur between 3800rpm and 4300rpm in 6th gear on 1330 engines (or between 4700rpm and 5500rpm in 5th gear on 991 engines). This vibration is felt through the handle bars, the foot rests and the seat. The harmonic vibration described here is considered "normal behavior" for such a belt drive system. In no cases is there any damage produced to the unit's mechanical components by this harmonic vibration.

Although belt vibration cannot be entirely eliminated, changing the belt tension will change the RPM/Speed at which the vibration occurs and the amplitude of its occurrences. Adjusting the drive belt tension lower will reduce the vibration level. Under high load/torque conditions, the vibration levels are diminished in amplitude and the RPM which the vibration occurs is lowered by roughly 400rpm.

For someone driving regularly between 68 and 75mph having a lower belt tension means they will feel a belt vibration when going through speeds of 62 to 65mph but at a lower amplitude, and feel less vibrations under acceleration and cruising speed. For someone driving regularly between 62 to 65mph having a belt tension set at specification means they will not feel as much the belt vibration since it occurs at higher RPM/Speed 68 and 75mph.

Statically, the belt tension is based on the distance between the drive pinion and the rear sprocket. The belt can be preset to a specific value using the tension adjustment procedure. While standing on its wheels, the belt tension of the Spyder increases due to the rotation motion of the swing arm. Further additional weight on the vehicle (driver, passenger and luggage) further increases the static tension of the belt.

Dynamically, the big picture is that the belt tension continuously varies with the road surface irregularities. Furthermore, to transmit torque from the drive pinion to the rear sprocket, the given amount of tension is decreased from the lower portion of the belt and transmitted to the upper portion of the belt. The inverse is also true when the vehicle is under deceleration. The amount of tension transferred depends on the acceleration or deceleration of the vehicle and slope of the road.

The belt tension is the factor which determines the belt vibration. The engine speed at which vibration would occur depends solely on the tension of the belt since the length and mass of the belt remains relatively constant. More vibration is transmitted to the vehicle when the tension is high. This effect can be explained by the fact that higher tension implies higher stiffness and higher stiffness implies higher transmissibility. This also explains why even though more vibrations are observed on the lower portion of the belt, only the vibration of the upper portion of the belt is strongly felt on the vehicle due to its higher transmissibility (because it has a higher tension in the majority of driving conditions).

At constant speed and zero road slope, the upper part of the belt has a higher tension than the lower part of the belt due to aerodynamic resistance. Under acceleration and/or hill climb conditions, the upper part of the belt further increases in tension. The degree of acceleration or hill climb proportionally dictates the engine speed at which occurs the belt vibration and the amplitudes of vibration transmitted to the vehicle.

By reducing the tension of the belt, the transmitted vibration at very low torque conditions can be completely removed. The transmitted vibration at higher torque is similar to that of the specification belt tension but occurs at slightly lower RPM/speed.

So basically, if you experience unpleasant vibrations have your drive belt tension checked at three different points of rotation of the rear wheel/sprocket and see how it varies, and compares to the vehicle's specification. If the belt tension changes more than 250N between 2 readings this would indicate an out of round rear sprocket which should be replaced. Otherwise, you can adjust the tension to change the speed and amplitude at which it occurs.

I just took my F3 to the dealer to have them check the belt tension, hopefully they know what their doing. I get it back, same thing, vibration! I have two other bikes, both belt drive, no vibration. Why should I have to put up with a machine that was nearly twice as expensive with a belt vibration? Is it the difference in quality control between the Japanese manufactures and those that build the Can-Am? If I wanted an expensive vibrator, I would have bought a harley. I like my Spyder a lot, but I can't set cruise control around 69-73 MPH, and enjoy the ride. It reminds me what I felt on my harley that I owned several years ago. Am I expecting too much from this type of ride? Is it inherent with the design of two wheels forward. I own a Roadstar Trike, that I am replaced with the Spyder as my left knee is so messed up, I can no longer shift it comfortably, so I thought the Spyder F3S, SE6 was the answer. My stealership will not admit there is a vibration problem with the F3, and charged $50 to check the belt. I'm really hoping that there is a fix for it. I know about the belt tensioner that some are installing, but it appears that it is hit and miss about fixing the problem entirely. If this ends up being something I have to live with, so be it. I ridden for so many years, and I am not going to quit doing that, so I'll ride it for the long haul, vibrations and all!
icon6.png
 
I was told to ride my F3S to the break in mark then have the belt checked. Have to say, the vibration on the F3 is worse than any of the other Spyders I've owned.
 
I just took my F3 to the dealer to have them check the belt tension, hopefully they know what their doing. I get it back, same thing, vibration! I have two other bikes, both belt drive, no vibration. Why should I have to put up with a machine that was nearly twice as expensive with a belt vibration? Is it the difference in quality control between the Japanese manufactures and those that build the Can-Am? If I wanted an expensive vibrator, I would have bought a harley. I like my Spyder a lot, but I can't set cruise control around 69-73 MPH, and enjoy the ride. It reminds me what I felt on my harley that I owned several years ago. Am I expecting too much from this type of ride? Is it inherent with the design of two wheels forward. I own a Roadstar Trike, that I am replaced with the Spyder as my left knee is so messed up, I can no longer shift it comfortably, so I thought the Spyder F3S, SE6 was the answer. My stealership will not admit there is a vibration problem with the F3, and charged $50 to check the belt. I'm really hoping that there is a fix for it. I know about the belt tensioner that some are installing, but it appears that it is hit and miss about fixing the problem entirely. If this ends up being something I have to live with, so be it. I ridden for so many years, and I am not going to quit doing that, so I'll ride it for the long haul, vibrations and all!
icon6.png


As as I have said before, BRP either knew about this and released it anyway or their engineering staff is incompetent...

mark
 
Vibration Also

So, I took my new F3 on it's first long ride yesterday which entailed some freeway driving. Turns out I have the belt harmonics between 67 mph and 72 mph. Has anyone found a solution to this issue, or has anyone had any success with a resolution through Can Am. :ani29:

Closing in on 8000 on mine, same harmonics, read article about not shifting into 6th gear until at least 70 mph, my vibration of the belt is gone....give it a try...:yes:
 
Closing in on 8000 on mine, same harmonics, read article about not shifting into 6th gear until at least 70 mph, my vibration of the belt is gone....give it a try...:yes:

Yes, I agree. Accelerating through the 3800-4300 rpm range instead of steady-state operation at that rpm should make a difference. Anyone dissatisfied with the vibes should try that. Avoid steady operation at 3800-4300 for reduced vibration.
 
The Vibration

You can take these comments for what they are worth. I am a dealer, and I've put over 1,400 miles on my F3. I'll start off by saying all motorcycles, all engines, have a frequency vibration somewhere in their operating range. Triumph motorcycles, which share the same 3 cylinder (120 degree rotating/firing) configuration on many models, tend to have it between 3,000 and 3,400 rpm. It is always there, somewhere. This vibration can and sometimes is amplified thru the drive drain. In the case of a Triumph, it is via the chain or driveshaft. In the case of the F3, it is thru the belt. What makes it especially noticeable on the F3 is the long belt which is required to cover the massive rear sprocket. If you ever get a chance to "see" it occur (there are video's out there of the belt in action, and when the frequency vibration hits, you see it) you will have a better appreciation of the event. It is unfortunate that the combination of gearing/rpm/torque make it particularly acute in 6th gear right at cruising speed. Triumph had the same thing going on in 1998-2004 on the Thunderbirds, Legends and Adventurer models. It is what it is, and a belt tensioner, in my opinion, would minimize/fix it. I make no excuses for BRP or the engineers who designed it and maybe underestimated the irritation this is creating.
That said, remember this..... these are not cars, with thousands of pounds of vehicle to absorb the vibrations. They are bikes. Ride an older Harley V-Twin, and you'll visit vibration. Heck, ride our RS/GS/ST models and you'll feel it somewhere in the rpm range. The smoothest engine I have EVER experienced was a 5 cylinder in a Honda racebike. The six cylinder GoldWings are also very smooth, but not without some vibration. They've all got it...somewhere
BTW, I believe the RT hides the frequency vibration better due to the shorter belt, combined with the heavier weight and different gearing.
Tim
 
You can take these comments for what they are worth. I am a dealer, and I've put over 1,400 miles on my F3. I'll start off by saying all motorcycles, all engines, have a frequency vibration somewhere in their operating range. Triumph motorcycles, which share the same 3 cylinder (120 degree rotating/firing) configuration on many models, tend to have it between 3,000 and 3,400 rpm. It is always there, somewhere. This vibration can and sometimes is amplified thru the drive drain. In the case of a Triumph, it is via the chain or driveshaft. In the case of the F3, it is thru the belt. What makes it especially noticeable on the F3 is the long belt which is required to cover the massive rear sprocket. If you ever get a chance to "see" it occur (there are video's out there of the belt in action, and when the frequency vibration hits, you see it) you will have a better appreciation of the event. It is unfortunate that the combination of gearing/rpm/torque make it particularly acute in 6th gear right at cruising speed. Triumph had the same thing going on in 1998-2004 on the Thunderbirds, Legends and Adventurer models. It is what it is, and a belt tensioner, in my opinion, would minimize/fix it. I make no excuses for BRP or the engineers who designed it and maybe underestimated the irritation this is creating.
That said, remember this..... these are not cars, with thousands of pounds of vehicle to absorb the vibrations. They are bikes. Ride an older Harley V-Twin, and you'll visit vibration. Heck, ride our RS/GS/ST models and you'll feel it somewhere in the rpm range. The smoothest engine I have EVER experienced was a 5 cylinder in a Honda racebike. The six cylinder GoldWings are also very smooth, but not without some vibration. They've all got it...somewhere
BTW, I believe the RT hides the frequency vibration better due to the shorter belt, combined with the heavier weight and different gearing.
Tim


Sorry but justifying the horrid vibration AT CRUISE SPEEDS by comparing the F3 to old Harley's etc is BS. Compared to the model T its not to bad either... This is a modern new design that BRP has spent a fortune promoting.... I have owned two dozen bikes over the last 40 years and NONE of them compared to the F3 when it comes to vibration ESPECIALLY at cruise speed.

Again, BRP either knew about this design flaw or their engineering team is incompetent

Mark
 
Sorry but justifying the horrid vibration AT CRUISE SPEEDS by comparing the F3 to old Harley's etc is BS. Compared to the model T its not to bad either... This is a modern new design that BRP has spent a fortune promoting.... I have owned two dozen bikes over the last 40 years and NONE of them compared to the F3 when it comes to vibration ESPECIALLY at cruise speed.

Again, BRP either knew about this design flaw or their engineering team is incompetent

Mark

I agree, in this modern age and technology being what is, we should not have to drive around or shift around an irritating vibration. Perhaps BRP was so deep and needed to bring it to market to start recouping the cost of R&D. Any comments that state we should live with it, or drive it differently is not a solution. There is obviously a problem that many here are tired of, and all the excuses, and other bull**** comments on how to ride it.

Red
 
Sorry but justifying the horrid vibration AT CRUISE SPEEDS by comparing the F3 to old Harley's etc is BS. Compared to the model T its not to bad either... This is a modern new design that BRP has spent a fortune promoting.... I have owned two dozen bikes over the last 40 years and NONE of them compared to the F3 when it comes to vibration ESPECIALLY at cruise speed.

Again, BRP either knew about this design flaw or their engineering team is incompetent

Mark
THOUGHT I made it clear that I was making no excuses for BRP (READ IT) but I guess, like with everything else in this country, if it doesn't agree with your assessment it is wrong.... Geesh... Come on Mark, I'm not saying you are wrong, so have the decency to respect someones else's opinion, rather than write it off as BS.
 
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