Engine oil

[PMK]

Think I am going to the Mobil 1 4t oil on my next change. I would not go over 5,000 miles on on the BRP oil. Last oil change on mine at 4400 miles, lab said that it had sheared down to just below 20 weight.

Doc, I am not claiming the M1 is a magic potion nor witches brew. Simply I use M1 in the wifes Corolla, my 2010 Tacoma in the engine, automatic transmission, rear end and power steering, The KTM 250 has it in the gearbox, forks, and hydro clutch. I even use it in some of the bicycle forks.

So M1 does well for me.

As for the Spyder, I decided on M1 Racing 4t 10/40 a while back. Could have been Rottella but went M1. Simply here's why. I know the M1 is a 10/40 as opposed to the manual specified 5/40. (Cold weather flow is a non issue where I live). If the oil starts life slightly more viscous, it should run longer until the viscosity diminishes. I have no plans to go 9300 miles. Calender wise that would be too long for our machine. Plan is around 5k on the oil, unless the calender gets long from lack of use for the Spyder.

Along with this, I will replace the $15 oil filter each oil change.

Wil Amsoil work, will Rottella work, BRP oil works also. Even other oils like Castrol, Royal Purple, Valvoline any of them, provided the viscosity is proper or close AND THE BOTTLE IS NOT LABELED ENERGY CONSERVING OR SIMILAR WHICH CONTAINS MOLY IN ENOUGH CONTENT TO TAKE OUT THE CLUTCH. After reading about the machine that went 100k on BRP oil, it is pretty reasonable to consider the engine stress is fairly low, while the gearbox will destroy the oil. In the end, neither the gearbox nor engine is non for mechanical failures. As for wear, at our current rate, 100k will be 20 years from now. By then we may be tired of the color.

The above is in regards to the 2014 / 2015 1330 powered machines. I learned a while back during an oil topic that the earlier machines require an oil that meets less of a spec or the clutch will fail. Do some research and ensure the oil you choose is proper for your machine.

PK

 

[rays hell]

oil

I read some time ago the 998 se requires oil that is rated JASO MA-2
I get Castrol 4T semi synthetic 10/40 for less than $7 a qt. At the Wally World

 

[JayBros]

If I'm correctly reading sources here on SL, BRP Care was interested enough in owner questions to clarify the correct amount and proper oil level checking on the 1330 engine. It would be great if they would chime in on this issue of the durability of the XPS semi-synthetic blend and its long term successful lubrication of the engine. Doc found his sheared down to 20 weight in 4K; what has BRP found in longer mileage analysis? If my analysis replicates Doc's I sure as hell am not going to stretch it because I don't have the hard data to be sure that it's OK to do so. That's why I'm also going to have the Mobil 1 4T analyzed. I want my Spyder to last as long as it possibly can or until I'm no longer able to safely ride it.

BRP Care: how about giving us some long term data on this issue!

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Think I am going to the Mobil 1 4t oil on my next change. I would not go over 5,000 miles on on the BRP oil. Last oil change on mine at 4400 miles, lab said that it had sheared down to just below 20 weight.

From what I was reading on Motor Oil Evaluator website, and others, it's the viscosity improvers that shear, not the base oil molecules. Many so-called synthetic oils are actually blends including petroleum based oil and viscosity improvers and are in Group 3 oil classification. I believe the BRP oil is one. Full synthetic oils, which it looks like all the ones mentioned above are, are in Group 4, and have no viscosity improvers in them. They're not needed. So how does shearing affect full synthetic oils? Is it really an issue with Group 4 oils?

BRP engineers must know how their oil changes with time and mileage, and that knowledge surely is factored into the design. The BRP rep at Spyderfest would not discuss anything at all in that regard. His response was on the order of, "Use our oil and change per our specs and you'll be OK. I can't talk about any other oil except what we know works. Ours." It's all close hold information. So if BRP oil will keep a Rotax engine healthy when changed according to their specs, what viscosity oil is really necessary to keep a Rotax running? I'm thinking that one could possibly run straight 20 weight, or maybe even only 10 weight, oil that doesn't doesn't lose viscosity the entire life of the engine and not have a problem. Just because their 10W40 oil shears down to 20 it may not be a problem at all.

If that's the case then we should be able to run a full synthetic far longer than 9300 miles.

 

[PMK]

Wanted to add a bit more to this topic. I recently did our oil change at 4 k miles. The machine is the 14 RTs with a 1330. I ran break in oil as what came in it until 2500 miles and the gearbox was clunky and notchy plus the engine was a bit noisy / rattley. AT 2500, I did an oil and filter change, used BRP kit with the blended oil. Almost immediately the engine quieted down and the gearbox became smoother.

The most recent change earlier this month had me again do an oil and filter change. Used the BRP filter and this time the Mobil 1 motorcycle oil in 10/40. Initially I expected awesome results. Well the engine was better, and the gearbox was better also. Similar to the first oil change.

However, now with about 100 miles on the M1, I do notice with the engine warmed up, the gearbox is much nicer and the clutch is smooth. The shift into reverse so far has been soft without a major "Clunk". While difficult to really feel or tell, even the engine noise seems less.

What does it mean, absolutely nothing. Merely I seem to believe that when warmed up, this oil is smoother than the BRP blended. In defense of the BRP oil, I have no idea what spec or viscosity it is. The M1 is 10/40.

When the test are in and M1 shows crazy amounts of breakdown, I'll accept that and go forward if it happens.

PK

 

[billybovine]

If I'm correctly reading sources here on SL, BRP Care was interested enough in owner questions to clarify the correct amount and proper oil level checking on the 1330 engine. It would be great if they would chime in on this issue of the durability of the XPS semi-synthetic blend and its long term successful lubrication of the engine. Doc found his sheared down to 20 weight in 4K; what has BRP found in longer mileage analysis? If my analysis replicates Doc's I sure as hell am not going to stretch it because I don't have the hard data to be sure that it's OK to do so. That's why I'm also going to have the Mobil 1 4T analyzed. I want my Spyder to last as long as it possibly can or until I'm no longer able to safely ride it.

BRP Care: how about giving us some long term data on this issue!

If you wish to ask questions about BRP's oil may I suggest contacting their XPS Lubricants division through there web site http://xpslubricants.com/. I have found they respond in a couple days, but there is no guarantee you will get the exact answer you wish.

 

[billybovine]

From what I was reading on Motor Oil Evaluator website, and others, it's the viscosity improvers that shear, not the base oil molecules. Many so-called synthetic oils are actually blends including petroleum based oil and viscosity improvers and are in Group 3 oil classification. I believe the BRP oil is one. Full synthetic oils, which it looks like all the ones mentioned above are, are in Group 4, and have no viscosity improvers in them. They're not needed. So how does shearing affect full synthetic oils? Is it really an issue with Group 4 oils?

BRP engineers must know how their oil changes with time and mileage, and that knowledge surely is factored into the design. The BRP rep at Spyderfest would not discuss anything at all in that regard. His response was on the order of, "Use our oil and change per our specs and you'll be OK. I can't talk about any other oil except what we know works. Ours." It's all close hold information. So if BRP oil will keep a Rotax engine healthy when changed according to their specs, what viscosity oil is really necessary to keep a Rotax running? I'm thinking that one could possibly run straight 20 weight, or maybe even only 10 weight, oil that doesn't doesn't lose viscosity the entire life of the engine and not have a problem. Just because their 10W40 oil shears down to 20 it may not be a problem at all.

If that's the case then we should be able to run a full synthetic far longer than 9300 miles.

It is my understanding that almost all oil described as synthetic is class 3 and not true synthetic class 4. I think all the oils mentioned above as synthetic are class 3. It used to be if you wanted a true synthetic oil the easiest choice was to get Amsoil. They prided themselves in all their promotional material as class 4 true synthetic. Recently I went to their web site and what caught my attention was there was no longer any reference to true synthetic or class 4 oil. It is my guess they have gone to a class 3 oil.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

It is my understanding that almost all oil described as synthetic is class 3 and not true synthetic class 4. I think all the oils mentioned above as synthetic are class 3. It used to be if you wanted a true synthetic oil the easiest choice was to get Amsoil. They prided themselves in all their promotional material as class 4 true synthetic. Recently I went to their web site and what caught my attention was there was no longer any reference to true synthetic or class 4 oil. It is my guess they have gone to a class 3 oil.

After doing some more Googling I think you're mostly correct. Class 3 oils are petroleum base stock but have been refined more exactly than Group 2 and have synthetic modifiers added. Many of them even have a substantial percentage of PAO, polyalphaolefins, the sole base stock of Group 4 oils. Because of this they've been allowed to be labelled synthetic. Rather than focusing on synthetic vs. non-synthetic in the oil discussion we should be focusing on Group 3 vs Group 4. My previous comment needs to be modified such.

Amsoil XL and OE oils are Group 3 but from what I find all the rest are Group 4. But who knows for sure? Oil companies apparently don't like to disclose what percentage of different base stocks are in their products.

I believe all Group 3 oils have viscosity improvers in them, hence the discussion of viscosity breakdown is valid for them as to how much that limits the oil change intervals for Spyder engines. Group 4 oils don't have VI in them, as I understand it at this time, so shearing should not be a problem with them. That means extended change intervals are practical for the Spyder engines.

I just today noticed for the first time the comment about shear stability on the Amsoil 10W40 Motorcycle Oil label. Wonder what the other oils mentioned above have on their labels.