Engine lugging

[Nasrul3698]

Using a 2013 Spyder RS-S with several performance mods. I've experienced this lugging for quite some time now and I have no idea why. It happens after roughly 15 mins of riding. And it happens in all the gears starting from 3500 rpm. I have to keep it on playing around with the throttle to eliminate the trouble. Anybody here know the reason why it's happening and how to fix this?

 

[Cruzr Joe]

Using a 2013 Spyder RS-S with several performance mods. I've experienced this lugging for quite some time now and I have no idea why. It happens after roughly 15 mins of riding. And it happens in all the gears starting from 3500 rpm. I have to keep it on playing around with the throttle to eliminate the trouble. Anybody here know the reason why it's happening and how to fix this?

A 998 engine is not revved up enough until about 5500 RPMs you are lugging it at 3500

Cruzr Joe

 

[Nasrul3698]

A 998 engine is not revved up enough until about 5500 RPMs you are lugging it at 3500

Cruzr Joe

It occurs from 3500 rpm to about 7500 rpm. When I maintain exactly at a certain rpm, it's as if there's engine cut off so I have to keep accelerating and decelerating.

 

[ARtraveler]

I would be looking at the "performance mods." Maybe something has gone awry.

 

[Nasrul3698]

I would be looking at the "performance mods." Maybe something has gone awry.

Installed the EJK Fuel Injection Controller, do you think this is causing the issue?

 

[BajaRon]

Installed the EJK Fuel Injection Controller, do you think this is causing the issue?

That might be a good place to start.

 

[spyderCodes]

if you have a number of mods you might find that someone is fighting someone.

 

[Nasrul3698]

if you have a number of mods you might find that someone is fighting someone.

I installed Yoshi slip ons, Furl injection controller, Bajaron ignition wire and iridium spark plugs though. I'll have them check my controller then

 

[Bob Denman]

It's usually wisest to add just ONE modification at a time. It gives you a chance to note what happens with each change, and it's easier to find out which parts are causing the trouble.
The 2013 991 Series engine in your RS is the same one that all of the other bikes used for that year. it's actually much stronger at low rpms, than the 990 Series engines, that the GS and RS models used in prior years.
While it makes 6 less horsepower on top; it has 3 more pound-feet of torque that hits almost 1,000 rpm lower on the tachometer. :thumbup:

 

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Installed the EJK Fuel Injection Controller, do you think this is causing the issue?

That might be a good place to start.

Agreed.

I took some time to look through that controller product instructions and FAQs. It's completely inadequate for your needs, and I'll explain why in a second. So, just take a few minutes to remove the body panels, and just uninstall the thing and restore your injector harnesses back to the stock configuration. Ride around for 40 to 50 miles to allow the ECM to adjust back to normal and I believe your engine problems will correct themselves.

Please understand that I'm not criticizing your decision or the product. But here's the thing. Your Spyder runs the exhaust through a 3-way catalytic convertor. Because of this, the Air-Fuel Ratio (AFR) needs to be tightly controlled. This is done by means of a feedback loop from the O2 sensors back to the ECM. This is called Closed Loop operation. The AFR is tweaked as needed through the use of short term and long term fuel trims, controlled by the ECM. Long term fuel trim values have a map of their own and are stored in memory. At higher power levels and throttle positions, the ECM switches to Open-Loop operation, where it meters fuel based on the mapping without O2 sensor feedback. Google all this.

So…your EJK unit does nothing to intercept, modify, or bypass the O2 sensor feedback in close loop operation. Nor does it even know throttle position. There is a reference to O2 sensor bypasses as an optional piece of equipment, but nothing anywhere on the site about how to obtain or installed them. Regardless, unless you remove the Cat, trying to enrichen the AFR with a controller will ruin the Cat and make it run even hotter than it is already. And without spoofing the O2 sensor signal to the ECM, the ECM is just going to try to undo everything the controller is trying to do. So yes, the controller and ECM are in fact fighting each other. I'm actually surprised you're not getting a check engine light and codes.

So, if you really want to add a controller to the Spyder, know why you're doing it. Take some time to train up on closed loop and open loop operation, short and long term fuel trims, and a basic concept of fuel mapping. The only product I know of that is satisfactory is the Power Commander. If you want to get maximum horsepower, then you need to tune for maximum horsepower, not tune to AFR. I think you'll be just as happy sticking with the Yoshi, keeping the Cat on, and eliminating the EJK.

 

[Nasrul3698]

Thanks very much for doing the research for me.
Weird thing is it happened about a year after I installed it. I'll try and eliminate it and see if it makes a difference then

 

[Chupaca]

Have to agree...

With those recommending you check the fuel controller. I have the 2012 RS with the Yoshimura R77 pipe JT'S air flow system BajaRon plugs and wires and no controller and it runs great...:thumbup:

 

[Snowbelt Spyder]

With those recommending you check the fuel controller. I have the 2012 RS with the Yoshimura R77 pipe JT'S air flow system BajaRon plugs and wires and no controller and it runs great...:thumbup:

Gene, did you keep the cat on?

 

[Chupaca]

No, the cat was built into the muffler on the earlier models so it goes with the change of muffler. Had a hindle for a while then went with the Yoshimura. ..

 

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Thanks very much for doing the research for me.
Weird thing is it happened about a year after I installed it. I'll try and eliminate it and see if it makes a difference then

My sense is that the controller probably wasn't doing anything for you for a year and now there's some sort of malfunction. The reason for saying that is because for every change that the controller attempted to make, the O2 sensors would pick it up, and the ECM would respond to cancel the change. That's not to rule out anything else causing your issue, but the controller is most probable. So, after removing it, let's see what happens.

 

[Snowbelt Spyder]

No, the cat was built into the muffler on the earlier models so it goes with the change of muffler. Had a hindle for a while then went with the Yoshimura. ..

Oh right. That system uses a single O2 sensor, correct?

That system seemed to be more tolerant of exhaust and intake changes than the two channel system, for whatever reason. So, that works out good.

 

[Nasrul3698]

Yeah that makes sense then. And i thought the controller helped increase the performance. It did however increase the max rpm by 500

 

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Well, the right controller would - to a point. Since we can't go into the ECM and alter the fuel maps or rechip, or some of those other things that Harley people can do, for example; we have to rely on a piggy-back type system. In order to make that work right, the signal from the O2 sensors to the ECM needs to be altered - I call it spoofed - to trick the ECM into maintaining a different AFR than stoic. Then you can adjust the AFR that the ECM will be maintaining in closed loop to a more power-friendly range in the mid 13's rather than 14.7. The fuel maps in the piggy-back system just help the ECM with the extra fuel that's required. However, without a dyno, your not tuning for horsepower, we're only tuning for a certain AFR. So, it's not an exact science. And once again, at that point, the cat is being overwhelmed with a richer mixture, not performing it's intended function and running hotter than normal. And nobody wants that. There may be others, but the Power Commander is the only one I'm familiar with that works on a system with O2 sensors. But I'd take the cat off.