Elka FYI on springs

[Lamonster]

I just got done installing the 300lb springs on my RT. Just a little history here, I was the first one that I know of to try the Elka's on a RT. I took the 200lb Elka's off of my RS and swapped them out. I found that I had to compress the 200lb spring almost 2" to get the same ride that I had on my RS. That was more than I liked so I worked with Elka trying to dial in the right spring for the RT. After weighing the front of the RS and the front of the RT Elka suggested the 250lb spring and that was much better but I still had to compress the spring to 8.5" to get the ride I was looking for and the guys I was working with at Elka agreed that it should be a little less than that so they sent me the 300lb springs.

I just installed these and I think that is the hot setup. I set them up with 1" of preload so the spring compression is 9" and after my little ride through the twisties today I think that is a good combo for my weight and riding style.

I should have a rear spring in the next week or two and I'll give a report back on it.

This is a 200lb spring (top), 250lb spring (middle) and a 300lb spring (bottom). The 250 and 300 are both 10" uncompressed. The 200lb spring is now 9.75" because I had to give it too much preload. I saw where someone said you could go as much as 3" preload, good luck with that.

300lb spring ready to install

If you have to change out the springs you can do it on the bike. Just loosen the adjusting nut enough to slide the rubber stop up and remove the bottom keeper. You can then pull the bolt out and jack up the Spyder and pull the shock to the back of the Spyder and slide the old spring out. Install the new spring in reverse.

 

[Tonga]

Many Thanks

Wow. Just what I need to Know. The pics are perfect. Thanks so much. I see the shock to the rear but did you losen or remove the top bolt? I wish Elka would have sent me the 300 lb springs at first. I will let them know how I make out. Maybe the next customer will not have the trouble I did. I spent 3 hours changing my shocks today. The hardest part was installing the reservoir and getting the flex line away from the A-arm. This is why I check out the Forum, experience counts for everything. :2thumbs:

 

[canam9]

Nice write up!

The one question , What is your weight. :ani29:

 

[SilverSurfer]

Okay ... I'm drawn in ...

Lamontster ... Looking at your photos -- 200lb (black) 250 (red), and 300 (black), I am now mortified. Elka told me I've got 250s. If 250s are always red, then I fear I've only got 200s. Moreover, he said the next increment up from 250 was 275, and that may not be true based on your explanation. So now it seems I'm faced with the spring change just like everyone else, although on my current springs, I'm going to try two full turns down on pre-load and 1-to-3 clicks up on rebound. After reading all this, it seems Elka just needs to put 300s on ALL it's Stage 1s, I think ... especially when building for the RT.

You mentioned one can change the springs on the bike. (1) Does this mean one can do it without lifting? (2) Does one have to fully decompress the pre-load before taking the spring off? (one would think so). (3) what is a 'keeper'? (4) What is your recommended torque on the bottom bolt? (5) what is the cost of the spring change, or do they just exhange with you and make you send the old one back? Oh and finally (6), compressed to 9", how did you set your rebound?

Many thanks,

Surfer

 

[Tonga]

Elka told me my springs were 250 lb rating and they are black and they wanted to send me 275 lb rating but I suggested 300 lb as the 250's are so bouncy. My fear is that the RT might sit higher then OEM settings if I crank it up anymore then 9 inche length unladen. The alignment is critical on the RT and higher might put it out. I can't figure why a company like Elka would not know what spring ratings are on the RT and just offer the same or higher rated springs to go along with fully adjustable dampening. My OEM shocks would have worked fine for me "IF" the dampening could have been adjusted. A few of us will experiment and hopefully the next buyer will get the right springs. Hopefully I can swap my springs without removing the reservoir as it was a pain in the but. I will say this again, I think the shock shaft is going to get lots of debri off the road not to mention bugs. The OEM shocks that came off had bug splatter. I fear seal leakage on a long trip. I can't be washing the shaft with every bug splatter. I'll scratch my head and hope to come up with something for long trips to protect the shock. Why couldn't Elka just put the shock the same way as the OEM ??

 

[Tonga]

No Cost for new spring and they never asked for the spring back. You are stuck with the work or the cost of replacement. Look to the bottom of the spring and once the spring is losened enough the Keeper (red) will come out sideways and the spring just slip out. Check out the pic.

 

[SilverSurfer]

Boing

Thanks Tonga ...

Once one knows what that 'keeper' thing is ... It all makes sense. I would defer to Lamont on the shock shaft issue, as he's had his on for some time now. He doesn't seem to be sending up red star clusters on a any shaft issues. I did see some guidance in the Elka support section about wiping 'em down after significant ride periods and cleaning under the lower bumper. I certainly agree with you that Elka should apply some overkill to these weight ratings. Also good to know there's no exchange cost. Other than the keeper question, I'm hoping we get the wisdom on the advisability (or need) to lift or brace the bike and any re-bound setting changes. I'm going downstairs now to apply an adjustment on my 250's, ride into work, probably feel dis-satisfied and then call Sebastian and order my 300s.

Surfer

 

[Lamonster]

Wow. Just what I need to Know. The pics are perfect. Thanks so much. I see the shock to the rear but did you losen or remove the top bolt?

I did not have to loosen the top bolt.

The one question , What is your weight. :ani29:

I'm 210-220 depending on how much BBQ I consume that week.

Lamontster ... Looking at your photos -- 200lb (black) 250 (red), and 300 (black), I am now mortified. Elka told me I've got 250s. If 250s are always red, then I fear I've only got 200s. Moreover, he said the next increment up from 250 was 275, and that may not be true based on your explanation. So now it seems I'm faced with the spring change just like everyone else, although on my current springs, I'm going to try two full turns down on pre-load and 1-to-3 clicks up on rebound. After reading all this, it seems Elka just needs to put 300s on ALL it's Stage 1s, I think ... especially when building for the RT.

You mentioned one can change the springs on the bike. (1) Does this mean one can do it without lifting? (2) Does one have to fully decompress the pre-load before taking the spring off? (one would think so). (3) what is a 'keeper'? (4) What is your recommended torque on the bottom bolt? (5) what is the cost of the spring change, or do they just exhange with you and make you send the old one back? Oh and finally (6), compressed to 9", how did you set your rebound?

Many thanks,

Surfer

The 250lb springs I got were red, that's not to say they couldn't be black, I have no idea. Mine say 1.88 250 right on the spring and the same with my invoice. It also calls it a 10" spring.

Two full turns on your preload nut will be about 1/8" more compression.

You do have to jack up the Spyder to take the load off, the springs are what hold it up.

You need to have the nut about 2" above the spring so you can slide the rubber bumper up to get the keeper out.

The keeper is the part that is on the ground next to the spring in my picture, that keeps the bottom of the spring in place.

I torque my bolt by feel, no torque wrench. I would go be what ever the shop manual says.

Like I said I've been working with Elka on this so they just sent me the spring. I have no idea what they will do with you.

I left the dampening where it was for now.

Elka told me my springs were 250 lb rating and they are black and they wanted to send me 275 lb rating but I suggested 300 lb as the 250's are so bouncy. My fear is that the RT might sit higher then OEM settings if I crank it up anymore then 9 inche length unladen. The alignment is critical on the RT and higher might put it out. I can't figure why a company like Elka would not know what spring ratings are on the RT and just offer the same or higher rated springs to go along with fully adjustable dampening. My OEM shocks would have worked fine for me "IF" the dampening could have been adjusted. A few of us will experiment and hopefully the next buyer will get the right springs. Hopefully I can swap my springs without removing the reservoir as it was a pain in the but. I will say this again, I think the shock shaft is going to get lots of debri off the road not to mention bugs. The OEM shocks that came off had bug splatter. I fear seal leakage on a long trip. I can't be washing the shaft with every bug splatter. I'll scratch my head and hope to come up with something for long trips to protect the shock. Why couldn't Elka just put the shock the same way as the OEM ??

I never had a bouncy feel with my 250 springs or my 200 springs so I'm not sure what's going on with yours. I would go with the 300lb spring for sure.

I've never had a problem with my Elka's leaking because of bugs or grime. Doc has a lot more miles than I do and as far as I know he hasn't had any issues either. I wouldn't be too concerned about it.

 

[SilverSurfer]

Post-Adjustment Report

Hi ... I just wanted to report back on my post-adjustment performance. Let me preface that this is in no way meant to affect others' preference for higher-rate springs. My weight ranges between 195 and 210, depending on how many a** chewings I get within a week; which is what I gave to Elka upon ordering (my weight; not the number of chewings). This morning, I adjusted the 250s on my RT. Previously, I was experiencing what I felt was some excessive roll or 'float' at high speed.

Adjustments: I cranked down two full turns on preload; and two clicks counter-clockwise on rebound (slower). Measured my compressed spring lengths which are now at 8.25". Before they were right at 8.5" I believe preload compresses the top- and bottom-two coils first. Looking at the springs, the top and bottom two coils are compressed 60% (a correction from original write-up), which is good because it means no dreaded spring binding at my weight and this adjustment). From 10", I am now scrunched down 1.75". I don't want to exceed two inches, and don't sense I'll need to. Also I found the markings on my springs ... an alphanumeric ending in 254, and the other shock matches it. I guess this means it's 250, rounded off. Oh ... I still have the stock rear shock set to '4' out of 5.

Result so far: Much, much better for my riding style (a touring rider). Bike is level. Minimal nose dive on firm braking. I enjoyed a nice flat, solid ride into work this morning. Rebound seemed right (no jarring on bumps; no bouncy bouncy). Comfortably passed several cars riding in the 67-70 mph range. There is a long sweeping curve on one of the roads I go; on which previously, I felt I had to slow to 45 mph comfortably. Today I took it at 50 easily, and I could have exceeded that aggressively. I have a "Tail of the Salamander," route on back roads I often use in the evening (on which I also took the deer hit back in June) that has about a quarter mile of 20-30mph twisties. I'm going to try that going home.

So for me ... and it's just me ... I'll probably get those 300s because it looks like an easy switch (and possibly free); also because the 300s provide the most flexibility for future two-up ryding and a lot of gear. But so far - so good with the 250s. I don't feel in a nervous panic to replace them; if it starts feeling loosey-goosey again, I'll probably try compressing one more turn to an 8 1/8th" spring length, but no more.
NOTE: It would be interesting to know how many pounds of pre-load are equal to one turn of the pre-load dial. This would probably vary, depending on rating of the spring (250, 275; 300, etc).

Thanks, Lamonster for answering the questions on your other thread. Yeah ... figured one would have to lift the bike. I have an auto craft shop on here on Fort Meade that'll lend me a bay, a floor jack and some nice tools to do the switch if I need to.

Cheers,

Surfer

 

[Dwight]

I just went and measured the springs on my Elka's, 8 1/4 inches sitting on the ground, no luggage, no riders. This still isn't enough preload, it rolls over too easy. Most of our riding is two up, probably 90%. Looks like I'm gonna need the 300lb springs. When I ordered the Elka's I gave them a 400 to 450lb rider(s) and luggage weight. It appears they don't have enough experience with the RT's to be in the box on recommended spring weights. By the way mine are Red. Thanks again Lamont for the heads up.

Dwight

 

[Lamonster]

Well I put the 300lb springs to the test today and I can't tell you how happy I am now. nojoke

I took a ride out to Hot Springs NC by way of the Asheville Highway (70) and that's some pretty good twisties. I know these roads like the back of my hand and I'm pretty in tune with the speeds I can run them safely. My first set of tight turns were so great that I turned around to do them again with the video but I forgot the mounts in my other Spyder. :gaah: I'm telling you this is going to be a great video when I run it again. I'll hook up the trailer for that one so you can really see it glide through the turns.

Besides handling much better than it ever has it was soaking up the bumps like nobody's business. Being able to back off my preload made a huge difference in the ride and I didn't think it was bad before. I felt like one of those trucks you see out in the dunes just floating over them. The ride was so good that I started to notice that the rear was a little harsh in comparison and I never really noticed that before.

Once I got into NC there is a road that follows the river just before you get to Hot Springs. Like I said I know this road pretty good and I was flying through the turns and there was no roll over and no over-steer. When you went into the turns it was very smooth and coming out of them was effortless. There's posted 15 mph turn on that road that is a decreasing radius and I was able to roll through it safely at 45 mph. Even the long sweepers were very predictable and controlled at high speed. I'm not saying anyone should run at these speeds but I was in the field testing mode at the time and I was pretty much the only one on these back country roads.

Bottom line is these springs are what needs to be shipped out for the RT and start at 9" compression, you can always back it off or add to it if need be. Right now I can't see it getting any better than this in the front anyway. :doorag:

 

[Mad Matt]

Lamont,

My 300# springs showed up today, can't wait to try them!!! Glad to hear you like yours!!

Matt :yes:

 

[Tonga]

My Springs should be here today but wont get them on till tomorrow. I must say here that I worry about the height of the front end because at 9 inch compression the 250's sat the bike just anout 1/8 inch higher then stock spring(9inch). What will happen with 300's at 9 inch? Will the bike sit even higher? It must because stronger springs take more weight to compress. I was Very, Very happy to read Lamont's thread so maybe the front end height doesn't matter. I must also say that with both dampening adjustments maxed out with these 250 lb springs the Spyder runs OK but no measuable difference from the OEM springs. I will let you know

 

[Tonga]

Well I put the 300lb springs to the test today and I can't tell you how happy I am now. nojoke

I took a ride out to Hot Springs NC by way of the Asheville Highway (70) and that's some pretty good twisties. I know these roads like the back of my hand and I'm pretty in tune with the speeds I can run them safely. My first set of tight turns were so great that I turned around to do them again with the video but I forgot the mounts in my other Spyder. :gaah: I'm telling you this is going to be a great video when I run it again. I'll hook up the trailer for that one so you can really see it glide through the turns.

Besides handling much better than it ever has it was soaking up the bumps like nobody's business. Being able to back off my preload made a huge difference in the ride and I didn't think it was bad before. I felt like one of those trucks you see out in the dunes just floating over them. The ride was so good that I started to notice that the rear was a little harsh in comparison and I never really noticed that before.

Once I got into NC there is a road that follows the river just before you get to Hot Springs. Like I said I know this road pretty good and I was flying through the turns and there was no roll over and no over-steer. When you went into the turns it was very smooth and coming out of them was effortless. There's posted 15 mph turn on that road that is a decreasing radius and I was able to roll through it safely at 45 mph. Even the long sweepers were very predictable and controlled at high speed. I'm not saying anyone should run at these speeds but I was in the field testing mode at the time and I was pretty much the only one on these back country roads.

Bottom line is these springs are what needs to be shipped out for the RT and start at 9" compression, you can always back it off or add to it if need be. Right now I can't see it getting any better than this in the front anyway. :doorag:

You Don't mention dampening adjustment??? Do you have it on your shocks?? The pictures don't show the reservoir??

 

[SilverSurfer]

Tail of the Salamander Ryde Home

First ... I agree we're all headed towad higher-rated springs. No matter whether one is currently satisfied with 200s, 250s or whatever, the 300s provide the greatest flexibility for ryders in the 220lb and up range, two-up ryding and carrying a lot of gear. It was good to see Lamont agree that Elka needs to consider the 300s as standard fare. I weighed myself this morning and clocked in at 198. I concede that if I add a passenger and fill the RT's front trunk and side cases, I'm going to begin challenging my current 250s. Fully agree with Dwight that if one is putting 450 lbs of ryders and gear on the RT, the result is an elephant on toothpicks. If I'm not mistaken, the max load limit aboard the RT is 500 lbs. However, I would have to respectfully disagree that the 250s are inherenly mushy. They are simply a lighter-rated spring and their performance depends on ryder weight, 1-up or 2-up ryding, and how much gear. Another observation: Elka must be using different "batches" of springs at the various weight ratings. I noted Dwight stating his are red. My 250s are black. I wonder if this has anything to do with varying degrees of satisfaction/dissatisfaction between ryders on the same rating of spring.

So, in following up to my earlier "Post-Adjustment Report,":

At 198lbs, a moderate+ ryding style (that's one click under aggressive, and three clicks above golf cart) and almost all one-up ryding, I had a really nice ryde both to work this morning on my 250s, as well as back home in the evening on my Tail of the Salamander route. The route starts with a turn up onto a series of 35 mph S-curves. I took them at 7-10 mph over with a flat bike and confident acceleration curve. At midcourse, there's a half mile stretch of relatively rough road, and a section where the road slants off to the right in a somewhat surprising negative grade. The RT went through it like a skateboard with me surfing on it (ah! my namesake!), where before, the roll and pitch of the suspension made me have to slow down and basically 'crawl' through it. Toward the end of the course is 'the salamander.' This is a mile stretch of 20-25 mph sharp twisties through the woods. I took them at 35-37 mph. There is one curve that comes up while one is accelerating up-hill, then flips 80 degrees to the left on a slightly negative grade to the right shoulder. This curve used to cause the SE5 tranny to downshift into 2d. No more ... the RT sailed through like a roller coaster car with no downshift, and little if any roll. Mine was a relatively short, but severe course. I enjoyed reading about Lamont's test.

Lamont is right ... the 300s are the hot install. 300s need to be the baseline on the Stage 1/Stage 1 Plus shocks for the RT. If someone is reading this and about to order Elkas, no matter what your weight, tell the salesperson, "Gimme the 300s!" However, so much of this seems to depend on ryding style, ryder weight, number of ryders and how much schtuff we have on the bike. I think maybe 2 or three of us have been un-ashamed to announce what we actually weigh. My point is that if you currently have 250s, and are not exceeding two inches of pre-load adjustment, observe no spring binding and like the ryde, there's no need to freak out.

So for me ... I'm moving up to the 300s probably in the next month or so, but now that I've got the adjustments good on the 250's I no longer have this feeling of "OMG! Gotta get this done before Gatlinburg!" ... and if I don't have the 300s on, I feel confident that 250s will make the trip down just fine, including The Dragon, and maybe even another twist of peload after the BBQ. Like I said yesterday, on a 10" inch spring, I'm down 1.75" on a 250 (Lamonster's down 1" on his 300s). Cool.

It's interesting to consider that we're sort of a fringe of Spyderryders who even have Elkas of any weight, and before I got mine, I loved my Spyder, have had it all over the place and am nearing 4K miles since this past March. I'm sure we'll see a majority of Spyders down at Gatlinburg that schlep'd the hundreds or thousand+ miles on stock shocks. I've no plans for the Evo swaybar. There's just no bang for the bang for the buck on an RT, especially with properly installed, and properly adjusted Elkas.

I've got a nice Maryland country road bike trip this weekend ... I'll report on that as well.

Cheers ...

 

[Mad Matt]

300# springs installed

Well I installed the 300# springs and set the preload to 9 inches per Lamont's suggestion. It's another quantum improvement in RT handling. Everything I have done has helped to some degree and my RT is handling and steering better than ever.

Elka stage 1 shocks in front with 300# springs.
22 PSI in the front tires.
rebound damping set to max.
Evoluzione sway bar.

Still to come: Elka rear shock, latest word is I will see this end of next week.

Mat Matt

 

[clueless]

ok so Silver Surfer has the Stage1+

and Lamont and Mad Matt have the Stage1?

Silver Surfer the + models have a separate reserve tank where did you mount it? any issues?

 

[Tonga]

My 300 lb springs are in but I don't like the fact that cranked to 9 inches unladen, the RT now sits 1 full inch higher the stock shock set to max. I also have set the top reservoir adjuster to max and the lower rebound knob to max. without that, the Elkas just bounce. I did try to dial back both dampening adjusters, top 6 clicks, bottom 8 clicks and it does still feel firm but I will try dialing back on my spring preload to lower the front end maybe 1/2 inch from OEM setting as told by Elka. The RT is riding high now and so is the center of gravity. Not sure how that will affect things. Trial and error. My first thought is that Elka should have a 9.5 inch 300 lb spring but they say not available. Thought these things were custom ( $1199.00), but custom has its limits. Guess I should have spent more money, huh.:sour:

 

[Tonga]

I just went and measured the springs on my Elka's, 8 1/4 inches sitting on the ground, no luggage, no riders. This still isn't enough preload, it rolls over too easy. Most of our riding is two up, probably 90%. Looks like I'm gonna need the 300lb springs. When I ordered the Elka's I gave them a 400 to 450lb rider(s) and luggage weight. It appears they don't have enough experience with the RT's to be in the box on recommended spring weights. By the way mine are Red. Thanks again Lamont for the heads up.

Dwight

All measurements I mention are unladen, pressure off the wheels/shocks. The dampening adjustment is doing the most work, I think.

 

[SilverSurfer]

Stage 1+'s

Hi ..

Congrats to MadMatt for a successful 300# Install.

For Clueless, yes, I have the Stage 1+. The reservoirs are mounted on the top forward A-Arms, right inside the wheel well. They attach with a rhino strap to the A-arm and the A-arm cover just goes right back down into place. Here's some pics showing how they're mounted:

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/album.php?albumid=1016

Pete's Cycle in Baltimore did a nice job. There are no end-user adjustments on the Stage 1+ remote reservoirs (I reported before that one doesn't see the low/high-speed dampening adjustments until the Stage 3's); therefore, it's okay that they are up and out of the way. I still have enough access to inspect the fluid line and charging valve for any potential leaks. Elka tells me the only time the Stage 1+ reservoir is accessed is when you send them in for rebuild at the factory ... somewhere around the 30K mile mark. The reservoir fluid line runs from the reservoir, behind the shock and then up to the top connector on the shock. That way, everything stays inside the suspension while in motion. Please know there is very little difference between the actual specifications of Stage 1's and Stage 1+'s. The 1+ remote reservoirs provide the benefit of more balanced oil pressure in the shock during temperature changes over long rydes and more aggressive twisties ... like ... umm ... The Dragon.

Tonga, Please make it clear to us what type of shock you have ... Sounds like Stage 3's at that price. You might wish to consult with Elka on the phone to get your shocks to a baseline setting and then adjust from there. Like they did with me, they can advise on the reciprocal adjustments that must be made on the rebound and (in your case) low/high-speed dampening as you increase preload.

-- The only control that affects ride height is pre-load. I would not worry so much about front-end bike height, as I would that the bike should remain level ... using the long chassis lifting plate as a guide, the bike's height should be righ about the same at the back as it is in the front. If it is significantly lower/higher between back and front, there might be handling or stability issues.

-- Remember in my previous thread, that for every full turn downward on pre-load, Elka recommended three clicks (from your original baseline) counter-clockwise. This allows the shock to maintain it's ride smoothness. If one doesn't adjust rebound softer as the preload increases, the ride will become harsher. I was also concerned about what you described as "bouncing." The owners guide notes a bouncy ride can result from rebound being adjusted too fast ... meaning you might be going the wrong way on rebound as you increase preload. Literally, the rule is that as you turn pre-load clockwise, you turn rebound counterclockwise, and vice-versa for taking off preload. These are the rules I used to get my Stage 1+'s just right. Finally, from my understanding, the low/high-speed compression dampening adjusters on the remote cylinder (of your Stage 3's) should not be a major tweak. These just fine tune low/high-speed compression (not rebound) dampening 'for the discriminating taste' of those who can afford Stage 3's.

Cheers,

Surfer