DPS roulette

[Smylinacha]

You need to visit Adventure Sidecar in Oregon and take advantage of their sidecar driver training!

http://adventuresidecar.com/

Rub

That means I have to get on an airplane and fly - OR is far from me. I won't get on a plane any time soon. Maybe someday they'll have a course like that here. I bet I can learn on my own - I'm sure with some practice I'd have no problem :thumbup:

 

[Dragonrider]

I've taken that class - they include "normal" trikes too. I highly recommend that class - even if you never actually own a hack or "normal" trike... BTW, I hope I answered the earlier questions well enough..

 

[jgwoods]

I suspect one of the delays in repairs might come from BRP sending the parts to states where lemon laws cover motorcycles. I know that if I have a problem with my steering I will inform the service manager that the clock is ticking on the lemon law. If they don't fix it in time BRP gets to buy it back.
For that reason BRP will divert parts to fix the hottest claims in the lemon law states. If you are not so lucky as to have that protection because your Spyder is too old, or out of the lemon law time limit, you will wind up waiting while the others get fixed first.

I have had this kind of experience when I was a service manager in a car dealership.

 

[widowmaker2011]

This was my theory some months ago. I think BRP is barking up the wrong tree by thinking all the steering problems are due to the DPS, when in reality it is the stability control that is causing part of the problems. It is applying just enough braking force to one of the front wheels to make the vehicle change course and causing the operator to "fight" to recover from the directional change..................

The stability control can regulate brake pressure independently at each wheel and alter engine ECU functions to limit power...all in the name of keeping our arses planted on the road.....However the brake regulation ONLY occurs when you are on the brakes , it cannot "apply" a brake independent of the rider. (The Spyder cannot apply the brakes it has no ability to do that, it uses the standard Bosch VSS control scheme .) So this theory would only apply if a rider was "on the brakes" at the time of the failure which isn't the case here. Interesting theory however. Yeah I'm back from the dead and promise to behave this time... ray:

 

[draboo]

Mine went in last Friday. Haven't heard anything yet.

 

[spyryder]

The stability control can regulate brake pressure independently at each wheel and alter engine ECU functions to limit power...all in the name of keeping our arses planted on the road.....However the brake regulation ONLY occurs when you are on the brakes , it cannot "apply" a brake independent of the rider. (The Spyder cannot apply the brakes it has no ability to do that, it uses the standard Bosch VSS control scheme .) So this theory would only apply if a rider was "on the brakes" at the time of the failure which isn't the case here. Interesting theory however. Yeah I'm back from the dead and promise to behave this time... ray:

You sure about that? The Bosch stability system in my Chrysler 300 applies brake pressure to individual wheels via the ABS pump to keep the car from spinning out. No need to touch the brake pedal. I'm sure the Spyder system works similarly.:f_spider:
edit: checked the manual, here's an excerpt:

 

[txknight67]

You sure about that? The Bosch stability system in my Chrysler 300 applies brake pressure to individual wheels via the ABS pump to keep the car from spinning out. No need to touch the brake pedal. I'm sure the Spyder system works similarly.:f_spider:
edit: checked the manual, here's an excerpt:

Regardless, mine doesn't feel like a brake dragging. Mine feels more like I am stuck between the magnets on the DPS unit. Like maybe BRP spec'd out to big a gap between the magnets on the drive motor? Just guessing as I don't know how the thing is actually built.

 

[widowmaker2011]

You sure about that? The Bosch stability system in my Chrysler 300 applies brake pressure to individual wheels via the ABS pump to keep the car from spinning out. No need to touch the brake pedal. I'm sure the Spyder system works similarly.:f_spider:
edit: checked the manual, here's an excerpt:

I was attempting (but not successfully) to say I think it isn't set up to independently brake "EACH" wheel in the event of VSS activation as opposed to ABS activation "The system intervenes by applying brake pressure or cutting the throttle with the onset of wheel lift or if the G-meter under the seat senses excessive lateral movement."
It was almost 3 years ago when I went through the training though so I could be wrong, but I dont think it will brake the right front wheel or the left front wheel , I think the pressure is routed equally through the abs module. The system is a car system yes , but not equivalent to the Chrysler system.

 

[spyryder]

Regardless, mine doesn't feel like a brake dragging. Mine feels more like I am stuck between the magnets on the DPS unit. Like maybe BRP spec'd out to big a gap between the magnets on the drive motor? Just guessing as I don't know how the thing is actually built.

Mine felt the the same before the 1st recall. Some occasional sticking, felt like magnets stuck together. Applied extra handlebar pressure and it would pop free.....very manageable in my case.

The motor switches polarity depending on which way you're turning the bars. ....I wonder if signals are getting crossed and it's applying assistance in the wrong direction....?

It didn't feel at all like any brakes were applied. So far it's been fine since the recall.

 

[txknight67]

Mine felt the the same before the 1st recall. Some occasional sticking, felt like magnets stuck together. Applied extra handlebar pressure and it would pop free.....very manageable in my case.

The motor switches polarity depending on which way you're turning the bars. ....I wonder if signals are getting crossed and it's applying assistance in the wrong direction....?

It didn't feel at all like any brakes were applied. So far it's been fine since the recall.

There's one fixed by that recall. Didn't help mine, second update made it worse, but shop also found a GPS bad. Haven't gotten it back since that fix. I'll keep everyone updated. Hopefully early next week....Ooops, scratch that, will be out of town on business for a week. Week after then.

 

[widowmaker2011]

Mine felt the the same before the 1st recall. Some occasional sticking, felt like magnets stuck together. Applied extra handlebar pressure and it would pop free.....very manageable in my case.

The motor switches polarity depending on which way you're turning the bars. ....I wonder if signals are getting crossed and it's applying assistance in the wrong direction....?

It didn't feel at all like any brakes were applied. So far it's been fine since the recall.

Your symptoms are a very good description of what 99% of the riders are experiencing, although they all explain it in their own way.

 

[spyryder]

I was attempting (but not successfully) to say I think it isn't set up to independently brake "EACH" wheel in the event of VSS activation as opposed to ABS activation "The system intervenes by applying brake pressure or cutting the throttle with the onset of wheel lift or if the G-meter under the seat senses excessive lateral movement."
It was almost 3 years ago when I went through the training though so I could be wrong, but I dont think it will brake the right front wheel or the left front wheel , I think the pressure is routed equally through the abs module. The system is a car system yes , but not equivalent to the Chrysler system.

You may be surprised at how similar the Spyder system is to the car systems. The ABS pump in my Chrysler is virtually identical to the one on my Spyder.....one notable exception is where the car has four lines exiting the pump, the Spyder has three lines with a bleeder screw where the fourth line would be! It also has two wheel sensors on the rear wheel while the car has only one for each rear wheel.
One big difference though is my car still uses a conventional hydraulic power steering as opposed to the Spyder's electronic one.

 

[widowmaker2011]

You may be surprised at how similar the Spyder system is to the car systems. The ABS pump in my Chrysler is virtually identical to the one on my Spyder.....one notable exception is where the car has four lines exiting the pump, the Spyder has three lines with a bleeder screw where the fourth line would be! It also has two wheel sensors on the rear wheel while the car has only one for each rear wheel.
One big difference though is my car still uses a conventional hydraulic power steering as opposed to the Spyder's electronic one.

Actually I'm not surprised :2thumbs: I've been at this whole Spyder thing for a while, just wore a different uniform....and haven't posted for quite a while, got burned out after severe DPS and GPS issues on both our spyders ruined a long planned once in a lifetime vacation and "grounded us" the day before leaving... :spyder: OK back to the subject- When we disabled the vss to do our first Dyno runs in February 2008 on mine we found the "spare" rear sensor ...... in fact the pump shared a oem part number with a Toyota Corolla... The whole system is straight from a car. As for the software programming- thats where it gets different. I still do not think the pump is programmed to independently brake each front wheel "separately" as it does in a car. In the TRI setup this could cause some serious stability issues not to mention because there is one rear wheel tied to two sensors , the Module cannot discern sideslip loss of traction in the rear as it does on your Chrysler. The Module uses inputs (on your car for example ) from the speed sensors in BOTH rear wheels and the yaw sensor to trigger braking / engine latency etc. The program needs to use the variable of comparative rear wheel speed (left versus right) to get its stability re-action program to each of the 4 brake calipers via pump action. ON the spyder that comparative is never there (ie: the computer reads both left and right rear wheels are always spinning the same speed because it thinks it has 4 wheels). This means the programming is vastly different . Its all good , we are all looking for the same results here , a permanent fix.

 

[NancysToy]

......the Module cannot discern sideslip loss of traction in the rear as it does on your Chrysler.

Actually, I believe it could, with the right programming and the input (and rate of change) from the steering angle sensor, and possibly the steering torque sensor. Using the speed, differences in speed between the two front wheels, and the steering angle, a program could also determine if you were off line, with the right data tables. I do not see any way the VSS could work to maintain your steering line (like an SUV) without independent braking. This is a known (and advertised) feature of the Spyder VSS. Anecdotal evidence from the Dragon indicates that the Spyder will do the braking for you in the tight turns, without pressure on the pedal. Just another man's opinion.

 

[Sekhet]

Well, I hate to say it, but the more I read about the steering problems with the spyder the more I worry about if I made the right decision when I ordered my RT!
At lest my Kettenkrad steers where I want it to go and traffic gets out my way!hyea:

 

[NancysToy]

Well, I hate to say it, but the more I read about the steering problems with the spyder the more I worry about if I made the right decision when I ordered my RT!
At lest my Kettenkrad steers where I want it to go and traffic gets out my way!hyea:

Nobody has reported a steering problem with the RT. Let's not put the cart before the horse.

 

[spyryder]

Nobody has reported a steering problem with the RT. Let's not put the cart before the horse.

And very few '09's have reported any problems.

 

[Sekhet]

Nobody has reported a steering problem with the RT. Let's not put the cart before the horse.

You’re right Scotty, I guess I am being a little pessimistic. It’s just my fear of "The ghost in the machine".:yikes:
I still can’t wait till my RT gets here!:2excited:

 

[Sekhet]

And very few '09's have reported any problems.

That does ease my mind.
Thanks for the input.

 

[groundeffect]

That does ease my mind.
Thanks for the input.

In addition the RT has a different steering system with different geometry then the 2008/2009 GS/RS Spyders.

Hope that helps.