Downshifting questions .... good or bad practices??

[Bam Bam and Pebbles]

i use engine compression and clutch (manual) all the time. I prefer to have brakes left when ryding in the hills. I have to say that most of us manual users ryde this way from past style and better control. I have gotten out of harms way more than once by being able to slide the clutch, rev and pop the clutch something I can not do with a semi auto. Down hill coasting is another plus, but I digress...Materials used now-a-days are way better and last a lot longer. As I see here there are way more brake pads being changed than clutch plates. if you are used to a certain way of ryding and downshifting you should ryde that way. The semi auto will only allow you a certain rpm for the downshift anyway....:thumbup:

:agree: I guess there are a few of us who do this way.

 

[Dmetcalf]

IF, as some seem to suggest, engine braking is essentially a bad practice, it seems to me that BOTH the auto down-shift and I are doing precisely the same thing - perhaps just at different times/rev counts. The SE6 automatically brings itself down from upper gears when the rider slows; I do exactly the same thing, only I tell it 'when', rather than waiting for the computer. The number of downshifts is the same in either case; I don't add anything to the shift-change count. There is no added wear from use. Perhaps there could be additional strain because I'm not supposedly as 'shift smart' as the computer. BUT, is the supposed strain on the engine/tranny that much different when using the power plant as a brake as opposed to when you use it to take off? That was the real essence of my question. I'm not doing 'jack rabbit' high rev rubber-burning starts; nor am I doing abrupt, jerky, high rev downshifts or over-taxing the system. I try to downshift smoothly without having the tach needle jump excitedly all over the place. I simply choose to do it slightly in advance of where the computer would. It's kind of the reverse of ignoring the built-in eco-mode up-shift system, which many seem to dislike and ignore. To me, shifting, accelerating/decelerating (without making believe I'm on a race track or chasing a medal) is half the fun of ryding; just like a winding road. And maybe just a little bit of me choosing to 'free shift' rather than be computer controlled. What goes up must come down, and if we can be smart enough to know when to gear up, can we not also be smart enough to be able to gear down? To each his own poison.

I agree with you in that I can initiate a curve better if I can downshift (slightly) before the bike would do so and slightly lower into the curve. This seems to work best for me and my riding practice.

 

[Peteoz]

Great Thread, Bushrat

Thanks for starting this. It's answered a lot of questions by riders who I know have a lot of sense (except Mike, of course:yes.

Pete

 

[Rigsby]

Dear Mr. Bushrat : I noticed two things .... #1, you didn't Thank or Like ...any of the answers given and they covered Everything you just stated above............. and #2. You asked for Opinions ................ So my question is - What did you expect ?????? ................... Mike :thumbup:

I have read this thread with interest as I have only been riding for a week and was wondering about the manual shifting points for both up and down shifts. Some of my upshifts under gentle acceleration go in with a big CLUNK and then next time the same style upshift seems to go in silently, what is the knack that I am missing ? I find that around the town I don't really need to brake until the last few meters as the engine braking seems to slow me down enough but I am starting to be concerned that other road users don't know I am slowing down during engine braking ( no manual braking so no brake light). What do you more experienced riders do ? It has been good to hear others thoughts and opinions:thumbup:

Can somebody tell me how the likes / thanks work please, I have seen them but don't know how to use them, cheers Rigsby

 

[Old Prof]

Gear Brake is your answer

Rigsby...adding a gear brake will signal cagers behind to the fact you are slowing down even before applying your brakes.

 

[Bob Denman]

I have read this thread with interest as I have only been riding for a week and was wondering about the manual shifting points for both up and down shifts. Some of my upshifts under gentle acceleration go in with a big CLUNK and then next time the same style upshift seems to go in silently, what is the knack that I am missing ? I find that around the town I don't really need to brake until the last few meters as the engine braking seems to slow me down enough but I am starting to be concerned that other road users don't know I am slowing down during engine braking ( no manual braking so no brake light). What do you more experienced riders do ? It has been good to hear others thoughts and opinions:thumbup:

Can somebody tell me how the likes / thanks work please, I have seen them but don't know how to use them, cheers Rigsby

 

[Rigsby]

Rigsby...adding a gear brake will signal cagers behind to the fact you are slowing down even before applying your brakes.

Thanks for the info, I didn't know they existed so I will have a look at the options

 

[40Xshooter]

Gear Brake?

Rigsby...adding a gear brake will signal cagers behind to the fact you are slowing down even before applying your brakes.

Could you explain a "Gear Brake"?

 

[40Xshooter]

Brake Lights

Do any of you worry about the guy behind you NOT noticing you're stopping when you don't apply your brakes? I've always worried about that when engine braking in congested areas. I'll buy new pads more often if it prevents the guy from running in to me because he didn't see any brake lights...

Just sayin'

 

[BitSlayer]

Do any of you worry about the guy behind you NOT noticing you're stopping when you don't apply your brakes?

I ALWAYS tap my brakes when I start to slow down. Mostly to kick off the cruise control but even if I don't have it set I still tap my brakes. That is to signal the person behind me something is occurring ahead of them. I don't wait to see if they notice my speed change, I do it to notify them of my speed change. It's a safety thing that the MSF instructor drilled into us when I took the course some years ago.

 

[Bob Denman]

Do any of you worry about the guy behind you NOT noticing you're stopping when you don't apply your brakes? I've always worried about that when engine braking in congested areas. I'll buy new pads more often if it prevents the guy from running in to me because he didn't see any brake lights...

Just sayin'

If you keep your "Situational Awareness" level at about Def-Con 2 at all times: it still can't prevent the "Driving Zombie Horde" from mowing you down, if they choose to. :yikes:

But it'll sure help! :thumbup:
Don't rely on Hardware to solve the defensive driving puzzles that you encounter.
Use your senses to position yourself properly in the lane, maintain safe following distances, and always be looking for an escape route!

 

[Rigsby]

If you keep your "Situational Awareness" level at about Def-Con 2 at all times: it still can't prevent the "Driving Zombie Horde" from mowing you down, if they choose to. :yikes:

But it'll sure help! :thumbup:
Don't rely on Hardware to solve the defensive driving puzzles that you encounter.
Use your senses to position yourself properly in the lane, maintain safe following distances, and always be looking for an escape route!

Its nothing to do with situational awareness or defensive driving or lane position, its the fact that if you are slowing down with engine braking alone then the driver behind doesn't gat a brake light warning and could run into the back of you

 

[Bob Denman]

It has EVERYTHING to do with keeping aware of what is happening around you... nojoke
If the guy in your mirror isn't paying attention: no brakelight will save you!
You'd better have a workable "Plan-B" on the chalkboard!

 

[Rigsby]

Could you explain a "Gear Brake"?

Hi, I did a search online and it is a system that measures deceleration during engine braking and puts your brake light on as a warning to drivers behind you. Some are adjustable and some have an additional light as well:thumbup:

 

[bushrat]

To Peteoz... Thank YOU for your comment re thread start, and you're very welcome. Sorry for delay in acknowledging. I have been out running the roads in my cage - 3,200 km (2,000 mi) in 55 hours, through parts of one Province and 7 States. Pretty whipped, but back home safely. Picked up a new (to me) F4 windshield from Don Frank along the way. Many thanks to F4 for the great buy, and for being up and open early morning; also for sharing a lot of good advice. I'll be looking at one of your son's new Ultimate seats for the F3L when I get to FL in the fall. Thanks also to all who exchanged thoughts/opinions on this thread. I'm just back to serious biking after 35-year absence; trying to pick up helpful hints and good guidance from others' experience that I lack. Reading thru Forum threads has been quite helpful; sometimes even frightening, which may not be so bad because it's a great reminder to stay alert and ride defensively at all times. Cheers.

 

[TRLBLZR1]

No hand brake lever = Safety issue?

This thread just got me thinking and here's "my two cents" on Spyder brake setup.....

The reality that Spyder does not have a hand brake actually can IMO become a safety issue, particularly at night. And here's why:
After years of fairly aggressive street/sport bike driving, I really miss being able to quickly toggle/flash the brakes (without applying them) using the hand lever. It's all in the flash! I used to quickly toggle to lever to alert drivers behind me and catch their attention to an upcoming slowdown/stop/road hazard etc. (You really can't do this with the foot brake, as legs don't have the speed/dexterity to use it/quickly flash it in the same way. (Not to mention how toggling brakes might effect nanny etc.) Thinking that some kind of "gizmo" designed for the OEM brake assembly might be a great idea/accessory. (To make it pulse several times before holding constant.)

Anything like that available?

 

[bushrat]

This thread just got me thinking and here's "my two cents" on Spyder brake setup.....

The reality that Spyder does not have a hand brake actually can IMO become a safety issue, particularly at night. And here's why:
After years of fairly aggressive street/sport bike driving, I really miss being able to quickly toggle/flash the brakes (without applying them) using the hand lever. It's all in the flash! I used to quickly toggle to lever to alert drivers behind me and catch their attention to an upcoming slowdown/stop/road hazard etc. (You really can't do this with the foot brake, as legs don't have the speed/dexterity to use it/quickly flash it in the same way. (Not to mention how toggling brakes might effect nanny etc.) Thinking that some kind of "gizmo" designed for the OEM brake assembly might be a great idea/accessory. (To make it pulse several times before holding constant.)

Anything like that available?

Yes, there is. Earlier in this thread Old Prof mentioned "Gear Brake", a system that detects when your bike slows down and automatically flashes your brake light. Just note that the specs say "compatible with 07-14 ST and RT, but not compatible with RS". I asked, but was informed, regrettably, that this system is NOT compatible with the F3, but I sure do like the product idea.

See: https://gearbrake.com/products/gearbrake-smart-brake-light-module?variant=15412515971

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I use engine braking on a downhill if the cruise control isn't holding me back at the set speed. But for regular stops I brake and let the SE6 do it's job. Usually it's so smooth I never even notice the downshift taking place. Most of the time I find if I kick the cruise out well ahead of the stop sign or light the bike slows down quite well without braking or downshifting. At those times I do tap my brakes to signal to a driver behind me I am slowing down. I have a brake light flasher so that helps get the attention of the driver behind me.

 

[TRLBLZR1]

I ALWAYS tap my brakes when I start to slow down. Mostly to kick off the cruise control but even if I don't have it set I still tap my brakes. That is to signal the person behind me something is occurring ahead of them. I don't wait to see if they notice my speed change, I do it to notify them of my speed change. It's a safety thing that the MSF instructor drilled into us when I took the course some years ago.

Best reasoning for a hand brake on a Spyder. Much faster & more natural/easier IMO to quickly tap a hand brake. That's what instinctively I kept trying to do the first week or so on a Spyder: "Two finger tap-flash on a brake handle that wasn't there.

 

[PaladinLV]

I engine brake about 80% of the time having drove 2 wheelers for 50 years before switching to a Spyder.

Engine braking Never Effected any two wheeler I ever had and IS recommended and it WILL NOT effect your Spyder.

Notice I used the term ENGINE BRAKING, since downshifting is a common misnomer.

AJ

Have been reading many other posts with suggestions about 'best' shifting practices to be followed. As a new owner of a 2017 F3L, I have been trying to 'learn' where my ryde feels best when slowing up. My background has been several sports cars over time, and a 250 Suzuki 'Hustler' 35 years ago, where manual downshifting and keeping revs up (moderately) was a long-standing habit. My 2017 F3L SE6 can do all the necessary downshifting by itself and, at first, I let it do its own thing. However, as I become more accustomed to it, and with my riding becoming faster as the miles progress, I seem to sense that the automatic downshifting takes place later and slower than I would instinctively do manually. The old sports car debate used to be - which do you want to wear out first: your clutch or your brakes? Aggressive down-shifters would gamble on their clutch; others just braked harder and more often.

My point with my new F3 is: left to myself, I'm inclined to approach my stops and slow-downs by twitching my left index finger and run down through the gears more so than by braking. So far, it works very smoothly, my brake pedal only comes into play very late, and by then I'm already down to 3rd or 2nd, without waiting for the computer. Usually, though, I let the computer do the final downshift to 1st. I find the computer-guided 'slows' to be rather late, and more jerky, especially that last downshift or two. Looking for experienced commentary on my technique; maybe I'll still have original brakes long after doing work on clutch or auto-shift paddle? Critical advice welcome; my feelings won't be hurt. I'm trying to learn from your experiences.