DOT and Modular Helmets

[IWN2RYD]

When taking the Trike Training Course this past weekend, the main instructor stuck up a conversation with those of us that wearing Modular helmets.

I will cut to the chase and save you from the story part... He stated only one company is actually DOT approved for the Full Face Modular, all the others (Including Arai and Shoei) are only DOT approved for 3/4, not the front modular portion.

Does anyone know how I can find out who this company is? I slept since that conversation and for the life of me cannot remember the name :gaah::helpsmilie:

Basically I ask because we are wanting to change. The Modular Scorpion EXO-900 helmets we have now are a bit on the heavy side, and are a bit big. They grab the wind and bounce us around a lot more than our HJC's do.

And the scary recent report show that 35% of all impacts recorded are on the chin! 55% of all impacts are on the lower half of the helmets and 45% on the upper (This was presented to our class, not my findings).

Thanks for the help!

 

[AutumnCat]

I can't say for sure, but...
We have Vega modular helmets (Summit II) and they do say DOT approved. I love how comfortable it is.
I can't imagine they are the only one, though.

However, I've tried several different modular helmets on and this Summit II is the most comfortable fit I've found. They had two versions of the Summit II - the first version did not have padding that worked with earphones (like those with the Cardo G4 system).

 

[spyder_RT]

I have the Shoei Multitec Modular Helmet it is DOT. I went down hard 9/29/09 and it didn't open and it took a hard hit to looked real good still. I replaced it with a Shoei the only other one I have had was a HJC didn't like the fit each one fits different. Don't go cheap It all comes down to how much do you like your head. It is a great Helmet I love mine.

 

[jimjel]

I think your instructor was blowing smoke. Check out the federal regulations on helmets.

jj

 

[pierrelogic]

Vega Summit II here as well. DOT approved, but not Snell approved. A bit on the expensive side, but investing on brain protection shouldn't be compromised.

 

[GeneralKaishi]

I have the HJC (sy-max II), I  the fit and the drop down sunshade it is DOT
approved.:2thumbs::clap:

 

[boborgera]

I think your instructor was blowing smoke. Check out the federal regulations on helmets.

jj

:agree:Some times people that don't want to use something [modular helmets/premium gas etc.] will knock it,
so you won't use it, so they can justify not using it them shelf.
Human nature 101. hyea:

 

[jnt]

We have the Scorpion EXO900s. They are certified both DOT and ECE (Euro). You mentioned 'they are big' . . . do you mean sloppy fit? We have found our EXOs the best we have worn for wind and noise. JOHO of course.

On the sticker/certification - the entire unit must meet to get either sticker.

 

[NancysToy]

My mother used to say "Figures don't lie, but liars can figure." I am not saying that anybody is lying here, but throwing around unsubstantiated statistics, based on partial information, is always dangerous. The DOT standard, 49CFR517.218, does not specify any testing below a line extending from the bottom of the eye sockets through the center of the ear canals. It would be impossible, therefore, for any helmet, modular or full-face, to meet the standard in the chin area. It would be possible (and desireable) for a manufacturer to run the same type of tests there, however. I would not jump to any conclusions based on what one isolated instructor said, unless he quoted the sources of his information, anymore than I would trust everything I read on the Internet...including this post.

 

[teacherbob]

Scotty,
Well put. Every modular helmet I have ever dealt with is DOT rated. I actually think there might be 1 or 2 that are evenSNELL rated. Most people throw these terms around without knowing what they mean anyway. Any type of full face helmet, modular or fixed is your safest helmet due to the frontal impact protection.

Bob

 

[Pincushion]

We have the Scorpion EXO900s. They are certified both DOT and ECE (Euro). You mentioned 'they are big' . . . do you mean sloppy fit? We have found our EXOs the best we have worn for wind and noise. JOHO of course.

On the sticker/certification - the entire unit must meet to get either sticker.

I love my Scorpion EXO900, I have had a few minor issues, I got the helmet right after they hit the market (My Dealer put them on the floor the same day I purchased mine) so I can understand a few early productions flaws...but their service/warranty department is really top notch, they really stand behind with they sell. I stopped of at their Lake Forest CA headquarters and they fixed it while I waited 5 min.
Between my wife and I , we own 3 Scorpion jackets 2 pairs of gloves, and 2 helmets. I really can't say enough good things about their products.

 

[IWN2RYD]

My mother used to say "Figures don't lie, but liars can figure." I am not saying that anybody is lying here, but throwing around unsubstantiated statistics, based on partial information, is always dangerous. The DOT standard, 49CFR517.218, does not specify any testing below a line extending from the bottom of the eye sockets through the center of the ear canals. It would be impossible, therefore, for any helmet, modular or full-face, to meet the standard in the chin area. It would be possible (and desireable) for a manufacturer to run the same type of tests there, however. I would not jump to any conclusions based on what one isolated instructor said, unless he quoted the sources of his information, anymore than I would trust everything I read on the Internet...including this post.

If your aiming this highlighted comment at me.... Look at this link. A very quick Google search found it... (Link) Washington has it as a part of the curriculum and (Rusty memory here) stated is was from several years of research taken from accident reports (Or something like that), it is not internet generated gossip.

(Source: Dietmar Otte, Medizinische Hochschule Hannover, Abteilung Verkehrsunfallforschung, Germany.)

Also... It looks like your pretty good with this info. If I am reading your post correctly... We all have wasted our time buying a Modular or full face helmet because they cannot test it? Is this correct? So the DOT warm and fuzzy feeling I get is for not? (Seriously I am spooked now).

Good chance I am wrong with this thought... But I remember this instructor mentioning that Snell and Shoei are better at rating helmets than the DOT because the DOT standards are from the 70's or 80's and the other two are updating there standards every five years or so. True? Not true?

I read this (Link) and I am more confused than ever... This (Link) and this (Link) It is however a very old writeup... One quick quote from the second link "We also tested the chinbars for impact absorption by removing them from the helmets, placing them on the headform and subjecting them to a six-foot drop. There is no applicable U.S. standard for motorcycle helmets that any of them claim to meet here, but the Zeus transferred notably more energy, which isn't surprising because it has no padding in its chinbar. The headform felt 660gs, compared to 200 for the best-performing Shoei and 201 for the Lazer, both of which have substantial padding in the impact area. The second worst was the HJC (409gs), but it has an excuse because we impacted the exact center of the chinbars, where the HJC has its latching mechanism. Its chinbar has substantial padding on either side of the latch and would have almost certainly performed well if we had attacked it there."

I am very new to the street Helmets, decades of riding in the dirt. So all this DOT not testing the chin, or testing it is confusing a little to me.

Also.....

I would agree with everyone's first instinct on the likelihood of this instructor being wrong. I have no problem with that if it ends up being the case.

Like all of you up to that point of the instructor telling us this, I defended my purchased, stated the DOT sticker is for the entire helmet, and so on and so on.

I am the type of person that likes to research these things out. I came here to ask, because so many of you have knowledge beyond most.

I am not looking for an argument or challenging anyone's understanding of the DOT ratings at all. I am just like all of you, all the money we could have potentially spent on the helmets we are wearing could be for not!

So we can understand a little bit about why I am taking it seriously... This instructor designed, and wrote this course for the State of Washington. This means that every course is his curriculum, and is required to be followed step by step by all companies offering this course. In fact, recently one of the companies running this course had their contract terminated after an audit because they failed to follow it step by step. In addition, this course qualifies those that pass, to not have to take the written, or driving exam at the DOL. (This course has a 50 question written test btw, and driving test at the end) We hand them a card showing we passed.... BAM.. Endorsed.

He is the owner of one of the few Training Companies left in this State. To think he would strike up a conversation with us after the course was over, just to gossip strikes me as highly unlikely. As folks like me would spread the word that this guy was FOS....

Probable? Sure of course. Likely? Man I hope not

Now... To go into a little better detail... He stated that only one of all the helmets manufactured has actually passed the DOT tests for the Modular Full Face Helmet. All other Helmets that are modular, are listed on the DOT site as passing as 3/4 helmets. NOT Full Face. Again I am asking for clarity and links or something, not telling this as fact.

Shoei (Europe) has different tests that DOT does not recognize.

But after quiet a bit of searching I was unable to locate this helmet.

Additionally, all I was able to find the National Highway listings of pass or fail, but no listings as to 3/4 and full?

Thanks again for all your help!

 

[IWN2RYD]

We have the Scorpion EXO900s. They are certified both DOT and ECE (Euro). You mentioned 'they are big' . . . do you mean sloppy fit? We have found our EXOs the best we have worn for wind and noise. JOHO of course.

On the sticker/certification - the entire unit must meet to get either sticker.

Good question. No not a sloppy fit. Actually one cheek pad (Opposite for each of us) presses to hard and amplifies the discomfort of the wind slapping as we call it. And unlike the Shoei I like, we cannot change the pads as easily it seems (thinner).

Our HJC's seem to sit and behave better in the wind @ 40mph+. We can run with the windshield down with the HJC's. However with our Scorpions, we get a lot more head movement in the wind, and have to raise the windshield all the way up to eliminate it.

We want to wear the Scorpions, mainly because of the communication and modular ability. So we do, and are happy for the most part. They seem to be a bit bigger than the HJc's, and that to me is only because of the modular needs.

 

[NancysToy]

Hey, lighten up! I have not said anything to muddy your good name. What I am saying is that your instructor has thrown out information without a source, with no names attached, that was unsubstantiated. His reputation, or your repeating what he said, does not make it necessarily true. It may, or may not, have a valid basis. I have read the Federal regulations a number of times, as well as the other helmet standards. There is no separate modular or full-faced helmet standard contained in the DOT regulation 49CFR571.218. Hard to say that something has passed a test that doesn't even exist, isn't it? There are lots of Internet artticles that claim that the Federal standards are saying one thing or another, but I could find none that quote or link to the actual regulation. I wonder why that is? No matter who says what, with what authority or reputation, only what can be upheld with facts and figures really matters...at least to me. Comparing helmet standards is like comparing oils...everybody has their own opinion, and there are a number of biased reports available, that will support any of the claims. Until a solid, scientific, statistically-valid study comes along that can give us something concrete to go on, we will all have to take things like this at face value, I'm afraid. Opinions are not facts.

 

[IWN2RYD]

Hey, lighten up! I have not said anything to muddy your good name. What I am saying is that your instructor has thrown out information without a source, with no names attached, that was unsubstantiated. His reputation, or your repeating what he said, does not make it necessarily true. It may, or may not, have a valid basis. I have read the Federal regulations a number of times, as well as the other helmet standards. There is no separate modular or full-faced helmet standard contained in the DOT regulation 49CFR571.218. Hard to say that something has passed a test that doesn't even exist, isn't it? There are lots of Internet artticles that claim that the Federal standards are saying one thing or another, but I could find none that quote or link to the actual regulation. I wonder why that is? No matter who says what, with what authority or reputation, only what can be upheld with facts and figures really matters...at least to me. Comparing helmet standards is like comparing oils...everybody has their own opinion, and there are a number of biased reports available, that will support any of the claims. Until a solid, scientific, statistically-valid study comes along that can give us something concrete to go on, we will all have to take things like this at face value, I'm afraid. Opinions are not facts.

***Edit*** Phew... had to run to the head... Now adding to what I want to respond with...

I think you and I are on the same page. I am attempting to locate and better understand all of this. I am only linking that of which is out there.

Ok.. Same question. (Clears throat) Is this DOT standard including the full face? Is the chin area a part of this test?

I have read the links that I presented more times than I sheepishly want to admit... and am so confused it is not funny.

The link does show the source (I even copied it below the pic).
Again, even with you additional comments your leading me to believe that their is no chin full face test and the warm and fuzzy DOT sticker means nothing? :dontknow::gaah::helpsmilie:Heck even a few responding in this thread understood the DOT like I did. I cannot speak for them, but I only know what I read or am told. SO where does that leave us?

I am definitely trying to learn here...

 

[Webhead]

I did a bunch of research on modulars a year (or so) ago and what I was told by numerous sources was that the vast majority of modulars are only certified to be ridden with the chin bar DOWN, and are NOT certified in the 3/4 position. The one notable exception was the Shark Evoline, which is designed and tested (and certified) to be worn with the chin bar in either position.

I don't have riding experience with any modular, however, since I eventually decided to go with a 3/4.

Ryde safe! :doorag:

 

[boborgera]

Years ago i was riding down a lumber trail with my sons following me, i stopped for one reason or another.
My younger son 7 years old decides to go around me on an embankment. [Were all riding ATC's big red's.]
He flips the ATC full force on his helmet, It puts a 4to5 inch long gouge in the chin bar. After making sure it was safe to do so i removed his helmet not a scrape on him, I'm sure if he was wearing an open face helmet his jaw would have been crushed. They will and i will always ride with a full face helmet.
So = What Ever Floats You Boathyea:

 

[BajaRon]

When taking the Trike Training Course this past weekend, the main instructor stuck up a conversation with those of us that wearing Modular helmets.

I will cut to the chase and save you from the story part... He stated only one company is actually DOT approved for the Full Face Modular, all the others (Including Arai and Shoei) are only DOT approved for 3/4, not the front modular portion.

Does anyone know how I can find out who this company is? I slept since that conversation and for the life of me cannot remember the name :gaah::helpsmilie:

Basically I ask because we are wanting to change. The Modular Scorpion EXO-900 helmets we have now are a bit on the heavy side, and are a bit big. They grab the wind and bounce us around a lot more than our HJC's do.

And the scary recent report show that 35% of all impacts recorded are on the chin! 55% of all impacts are on the lower half of the helmets and 45% on the upper (This was presented to our class, not my findings).

Thanks for the help!

I think your instructor has an axe to grind against Modular helmets as his information is way off.

1st, Arai does not make a modular helmet so that is out the window

2nd, no Modular helmet will meet Snell, but not necessarily because the helmet will not withstand the test. Because Snell cannot guarantee that the chin bar will be down and locked in an accident they will not even consider a modular helmet for testing.

I don't keep up with all helmet brands but I am not aware of any modular hemet that is not DOT certified. This includes Shoei, HJC, KBC, Nolan, Cyber, Shark, Scorpion and I am sure many others.

This is not just my opinion as I can provide supporting documentation for each of these.

This guy may be a great riding instructor but his helmet fact base has a lot to be desired.

 

[Firefly]

Here's my latest 'DOT' helmet.......

Of course DOT stands for "Donating Organs and Tissue" ! :thumbup:


Seriously I love this little novelty brain bucket- it's almost as good as riding without a helmet- which we can't do in Michigan---- yet.

I realize that it won't protect me any more than wearing a tinfoil dunce cap--- but I'm a registered organ donor--- so it's all good.

When I'm performance ryding I wear the full face EXO 1000.

Too much worry about ratings and regulations IMO --- buy a quality helmet that is certified that you like the feel, looks and comfort and RYDE!:thumbup:

 

[scudrunner]

80% of statistics are made up on the spot. Ok, I just made that up, but the number is pretty high. As Scotty said, Liars figure. Departing from Reagan's philosophy of Trust But Verify, I go by the rule... Be Skeptical AND Verify.
We've got the Scorpion EXO 900's and although they are modular, they are also convertible. The chin bar comes off, a visor goes on and it's a 3/4 helmet. Both configurations are DOT approved. I do believe I am more protected with the chin piece on regardless of who is testing and providing the certification for it, so that's how I ride.