DOT and Modular Helmets

[IWN2RYD]

Good info all thank you. I am very appreciative of the info being provided.

I am however still skeptical that because the helmet has the DOT sticker on it, that the modular portion is included or not.

I do see and understand the the "Can" type (That is what I call it :roflblack or hat type is DOT approved. But where does the DOT change for one full face to the Hat style? Reading the requirements, I fail to see this spelled out at all.

Is the DOT only for the top portion?

Please understand my concern and wanting to understand is because I was told it did not. I am no expert, but I certainly want to better protect myself and my wife. After all... It's our heads on the line and all :thumbup: If for no other reason I am trying to find the facts as this thread has developed.

 

[bone crusher]

Eh, keep it simple and skip the darn modular helmet...go with a full face shield and all will be good...

 

[jnt]

As I understand it, for any helmet to be certified, the entire helmet (each particular model) must meet/exceed specs. For modulars, the flip up portion must work when closed (and remain locked in impacts, etc, as my BMW System 4 did @ my crash).

 

[BajaRon]

But I remember this instructor mentioning that Snell and Shoei are better at rating helmets than the DOT because the DOT standards are from the 70's or 80's and the other two are updating there standards every five years or so. True? Not true?

I would not be overly concerned about your modular helmet. Though the chin bar on a modular will not withstand impacts that a full face helmet will you still have much greater protection than with an open face (3/4) helmet. Everything has trade-offs.

It is true that DOT has not updated their test standards in some time. But this does not necessarily mean the DOT standard is not good.

And it is true that Snell introduces a new standard every 5 years. Sometimes the changes are so minor you wonder if it is more marketing than improvement.

I am not sure where you are getting the Shoei safety rating because Shoei does not produce any safety rating.

The big 3 are DOT, Snell (Both US Based) and ECE (Economic Commission for Europe).

There have been extensive and multiple independent testing showing DOT only helmets are generally better at protecting the rider than DOT/Snell rated helmets. This may be some of the reason Snell keeps revising their standard.

At first Snell just blew these DOT vs. Snell tests off. But over the years Snell has been more receptive to MC needs as opposed to auto racing (where Snell got their start).

Here is an excellent article that give a good overview of this subject.

ECE 22.05 Motorcycle Helmet Standard - webBikeWorld

 

[Lamonster]

>>>>>>BajaRon knows his helmets nojoke

 

[NancysToy]

I would not be overly concerned about your modular helmet. Though the chin bar on a modular will not withstand impacts that a full face helmet will you still have much greater protection than with an open face (3/4) helmet. Everything has trade-offs.

:agree: Whether the unpadded portions are tested or not, a modular should provide more protection than a 3/4, which is better than a halfpot. Of course a full face helmet provides the most protection. Basically, the more of your precious noggin you cover, the better protected you are. Flesh and bone are no match for asphalt!

 

[IWN2RYD]

I would not be overly concerned about your modular helmet. Though the chin bar on a modular will not withstand impacts that a full face helmet will you still have much greater protection than with an open face (3/4) helmet. Everything has trade-offs.

It is true that DOT has not updated their test standards in some time. But this does not necessarily mean the DOT standard is not good.

And it is true that Snell introduces a new standard every 5 years. Sometimes the changes are so minor you wonder if it is more marketing than improvement.

I am not sure where you are getting the Shoei safety rating because Shoei does not produce any safety rating.

The big 3 are DOT, Snell (Both US Based) and ECE (Economic Commission for Europe).

There have been extensive and multiple independent testing showing DOT only helmets are generally better at protecting the rider than DOT/Snell rated helmets. This may be some of the reason Snell keeps revising their standard.

At first Snell just blew these DOT vs. Snell tests off. But over the years Snell has been more receptive to MC needs as opposed to auto racing (where Snell got their start).

Here is an excellent article that give a good overview of this subject.

ECE 22.05 Motorcycle Helmet Standard - webBikeWorld

Thank the Lord... Greatly appreciate your input and the link. Very cool read!

I also got a response from my informant :roflblack:, sorry, I meant Trainer....

[FONT=&quot]The helmet is the Shark Evoline. They just recently released the Evoline 2, which is a slightly improved version of the original. There were a few minor flaws (irritations mostly) in the original, and the company actually listened to customer feedback and fixed those few minor items. I got mine at Hinshaw’s Motorcycle Store in Auburn, but I’m sure most dealers could certainly order one.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] I looked for a copy of the Motorcycle Consumer News article that first announced that the Evoline helmet had passed certification as a full face. Unfortunately MCN’s online article index is always 2-3 years behind, and that article was published in late 2009 so it’s not available online yet and I didn’t keep the paper copy of the magazine.[/FONT]


So that helps me a bit as well, and I will go to the library and see if I can find that article.

In the end, I certainly understand we all take risks. Heck even getting out of the shower!

I hope I am not being misunderstood with this thread. But in my business the reality of life is this. An uneducated client is an instant liability... This is the best way to say it. I simply want to be knowledgeable of the truth, thereby being able to make an informed decision on our risk. It is not that I want to argue, or buy/not buy another helmet for that matter.

But when I purchased our helmets we had been told the entire helmet was DOT approved. And as soon as our Lead Trainer (BTW we had three) spoke to us about why we purchased the ones we did, and then told us his knowledge on the subject... The "Are you frik'n kidding me" bug kicked in.

Well it has been on my wife and I's minds ever since. And I knew coming here we a more "Mature" (Not old:lecturef_smilie group of members we would get a straight answer.:spyder2:

 

[scudrunner]

Wow, all this talk about good better best protection and maybe the best isn't good enough, does each component of my helmet meet DOT spec, I think I'm going to quit riding until I develop an Iron Man suit!

:gaah:

 

[IWN2RYD]

Wow, all this talk about good better best protection and maybe the best isn't good enough, does each component of my helmet meet DOT spec, I think I'm going to quit riding until I develop an Iron Man suit!

:gaah:

lol....

I am alive today because of a helmet. So yeah. I want to know. Otherwise the heck with modular and hello full face...

 

[ataDude]

Flesh and bone are no match for asphalt!

Hence, my nickname. :yikes:

.

 

[Firefly]

Those Shark units are unique in that you can flip them all the way back and ride with the face open--- something you should NOT do with the other modular units on the market.

http://www.webbikeworld.com/r2/motorcycle-helmet/shark-evoline/

The other Modular helmets out there are not meant to wear when opened---and therefore would not pass DOT when used as such.

I think this is what the guy was referring to.

I personally don't see the need for a modular--- unless you can really convert it to a 3/4 and ride with it.

Your first helmet will never be the right one-- most of us have a collection of them--- I think I have 7 now.

 

[2manycars]

Its the 2nd heaviest helmet made-or was

I own a shark evoline helmet and it is great except, the thing is so heavy that my neck hurts when I wear it, and if it is in the "chin-bar back position," it feels very off balance.

There are so many nice helmets made for the European market, I wish we could get some of them here.

The Nolan Trilogy looks nice, and I understand with the chin-bar snapped in place it will indeed pass a full face helmet test. I am not sure why Snel will not test them.

 

[NancysToy]

There is only so far you can go with protection on a motorcycle, especially with a helmet. At some point a hit on the chin can cause a broken neck. We don't wear HAN devices, like in race cars. So it is a risk we take. An oddly angled hit, or multiple hits, can cause damage to even the stoutest helmet. All you can do is wear something that you feel safe in, knowing that the odds are in your favor with any tested helmet, and more in your favor the more of your head the helmet covers. Selecting the right helmet and safety gear is a tough decision, but research, discussion like this, and certification makes the job a bit easier. The most important thing with a helmet is to get one that fits! All other considerations pale, by comparison.

 

[IWN2RYD]

There is only so far you can go with protection on a motorcycle, especially with a helmet. At some point a hit on the chin can cause a broken neck. We don't wear HAN devices, like in race cars. So it is a risk we take. An oddly angled hit, or multiple hits, can cause damage to even the stoutest helmet. All you can do is wear something that you feel safe in, knowing that the odds are in your favor with any tested helmet, and more in your favor the more of your head the helmet covers. Selecting the right helmet and safety gear is a tough decision, but research, discussion like this, and certification makes the job a bit easier. The most important thing with a helmet is to get one that fits! All other considerations pale, by comparison.

:agree::thumbup:

Also... If you watch the first video on this (Link) @ around 1:35 you will here what I was looking for... It is the first helmet to be approved in the locked and opened position... This of course is third hand info. Do as you wish with the info...

 

[BajaRon]

The Nolan Trilogy looks nice, and I understand with the chin-bar snapped in place it will indeed pass a full face helmet test. I am not sure why Snel will not test them.

Snell will not test any helmet where the chin bar can be removed. They feel that if it can be it will be and since they can't be guaranteed the chin bar will be in place, they will not put their seal of approval on it.

A Snell rating isn't really as big a deal as Snell would like for you to believe it is. From all the testing, the past and current ECE standard is better for MC helmet wearers than Snell (though Snell is getting closer).

 

[BajaRon]

Selecting the right helmet and safety gear is a tough decision, but research, discussion like this, and certification makes the job a bit easier. The most important thing with a helmet is to get one that fits! All other considerations pale, by comparison.

You are absolutly correct! And this is the critical issue because most people refuse to wear a correctly sized helmet.

You are much better off with a correctly fitting mid range (or even good cheap) helmet than you are with a Shoei or Arai that does not fit well.

 

[IWN2RYD]

I don't keep up with all helmet brands but I am not aware of any modular hemet that is not DOT certified. This includes Shoei, HJC, KBC, Nolan, Cyber, Shark, Scorpion and I am sure many others.

This is not just my opinion as I can provide supporting documentation for each of these.

This guy may be a great riding instructor but his helmet fact base has a lot to be desired.

I understand and appreciate your input.

I never stated that any of the helmets are not DOT approved. What I said was, I was told only one was approved as a full face. All the others had been approved DOT as 3/4's.

If you get a chance and watch the first video on this (Link) @ around 1:35 you will hear what I was looking for... It is the first helmet to be approved in the locked closed and opened position... This of course is third hand info. Do as you wish with the info...

This validates the instructors info to me (IMHO). This is the "First" and only helmet (So far to his knowledge) to get the certification in the modular position. Either opened or closed.

It seems clear the issue here is a rather normal one. There is no where we as consumers can go to find this information. All there is is pass or fail. No 3/4 or full etc. Is this the case or have I missed it?

I can understand the instant feeling everyone has had so far, that this instructor is FOS.... We have all been there before (Receiving end) And I am grateful folks are helpful in that regard to warn... But not everyone is FOS otherwise how do I take any of the input on this thread if that had been the case?

***Edit*** Here is another video (Manufactures) talking about being the only helmet carrying a double full-face and jet ECE22-05 homologation...[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DUDFGpkDBI&feature=player_embedded"] (Link)[/ame]

 

[dlittle]

Having landed head first at around 65 MPH WITHOUT a helmet (see full story below if interested), I can say it's no fun and now wear a helmet religiously. Fit is a big deal not only for safety but comfort. Too loose and it bangs around and is really annoying. Too tight and it can give you headaches. And different brands do fit COMPLETELY different. For me, many are too narrow at the chin and arent comfortable while others in the same size fit great. Moral of the story -- if you're going to buy online, find someplace you can try one on FIRST.

And now for the rest of the story...

I was on a Honda 450 Nighthawk (which don't turn in well) and a friend was on a modified Kawi KZ750 Twin (which handled VERY well). We were on the service road to Central Expressway (I-75) on the outskirts of Dallas.

He decided to get on Central and took off like a bat outta hell. I took off following well behind and saw that the entrance ramp was a VERY long ramp (1/2 mile or so). What I didn't notice was that it was a sharp right then sharp left to get onto the ramp until I was already committed to getting on.

I made it most of the way through the left to get on before hitting the soft curb (the sloped kind instead of the 90 degree angle type) which through the bike into the air going sideways. When the bike landed (with me still holding on, it landed sideways and leaned over quite a bit just as it had been when I was in the turn. It's amazing how long that second or so can last and how loudly you can scream OOOOHHHHHHH SSSSHHHHIIIITTTT !!!!!!

The recoil from the shocks through me over the outside edge of the handlebars but luckily, through me into a roll in hard-packed dirt next to Central. I landed head first and rolled a few times before coming to a stop.

An off-duty paramedic saw what happened, stopped, checked me out and started loading me in his car to take to the hospital not far away. My friend took a couple of minutes to notice I hadn't caught up, get turned around and get back.

Should have killed me but obviously didn't. I'm trying to figure out what kind of cat I have in my blood since I'm working on at least my second life.

Total Damages: The bike had at least bent forks and probably more. I decided not to fix it since it only cost me about $500 to start with. I ended up with 13 stitches in my head where I hit and LOTS of bumps and bruises. I was off work for 3 days and then was OK.

One other thing just in case anyone else ever injures their head (on a motorcycle or otherwise). Even a little cut will BLEED and make it look REALLY bad -- much worse than it actually is in some cases.

Dennis

 

[Smylinacha]

I have a Zamp Modular Helmet:

Had it for 2 yrs now. I use it in cold and rainy weather. I don't wear in nice warm weather - I wear a beanie instead. But this is the only helmet that fits me right and it's the lightest one I've ever had when it comes to a modular. Plus the yellow in it goes w/ the :spyder:. Keeps me warm and dry and no headaches from it and it doesn't fog. There are sun lenses that pop down but I don't use them - too blurry and I just wear my prescription shades which fit nicely in the helmet. I also have speakers in it that I put in myself. It's pretty quiet - I don't really hear any wind. Vents good when it does warm up outside.

 

[Firefly]

I would agree the Shark may be the only helmet that DOT says (and the manufacturer) you can use in both positions - but this doesn't mean other modulars are not DOT approved when used properly (down and locked). Even a standard full-face or 1/2 face has to be properly locked on your head with the chin strap to be effective - doesn't mean it isn't 'DOT approved' without a chin strap--- just not the recommended use.


What this comes down to is that if your helmet (including your current modular) is DOT approved - then it's DOT approved when used properly - and flipped up isn't proper for most modulars.