D.I.Y. oil change o ring kit

[BertRemington]

CW -- I bought this assortment https://www.amazon.com/Hilitchi-180-Pcs-Metric-Bonded-Assortment/dp/B07CKVYWD4/

The rubber insert is 2.5 - to 2.6mm thick and the metal rim is 2mm thick. I used a digital torque wrench with the same settings for metal washers although 15Nm would probably be adequate.

Turns out that assortment was handy. I've been using the washers as spacers, etc.

 

[Cobwebs]

Wasn't at hand, but I got it! This should help, I think! Ever tried measuring the diameter of a flexible ring? My numbers should be close, but they are a bit squishy! (pun intended!)

The O-ring numbers are OD x Thickness. The washer numbers are OD x ID. All are mm.

View attachment 188000

Come on this is a family show Idaho

Your the man that's perfect thanks !!!

 

[Cobwebs]

CW -- I bought this assortment https://www.amazon.com/Hilitchi-180-Pcs-Metric-Bonded-Assortment/dp/B07CKVYWD4/

The rubber insert is 2.5 - to 2.6mm thick and the metal rim is 2mm thick. I used a digital torque wrench with the same settings for metal washers although 15Nm would probably be adequate.

Turns out that assortment was handy. I've been using the washers as spacers, etc.

Excellent thankyou. I'll start amassing my kit.:thumbup:

 

[trikermutha]

Good information, thankyou.I wonder does the thickness matter. I've found some at 1.5mm and others 2.0mm, given that there are two o rings sealing something in the engine would half a millimetre screw that up somehow?:dontknow:

The ones I used were 1.1 to 1.4 thickness from mcmaster carr

 

[Cobwebs]

The ones I used were 1.1 to 1.4 thickness from mcmaster carr

Is that the stock thickness also do you know? Perhaps IdahoMtnSpyder could wave his magic wand over one for us. Probably doesn't matter according to Ron but given a choice.:thumbup:

 

[trikermutha]

Is that the stock thickness also do you know? Perhaps IdahoMtnSpyder could wave his magic wand over one for us. Probably doesn't matter according to Ron but given a choice.:thumbup:

Not without measuring them. But if he wants to wave the wand I am all for it. :thumbup:

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Is that the stock thickness also do you know? Perhaps IdahoMtnSpyder could wave his magic wand over one for us. Probably doesn't matter according to Ron but given a choice.:thumbup:

You talking about the the O-rings or the washers? The ones I measured is the kit that Baja Ron provides. Both washers are close to 1.35 mm thick. I didn't list their thicknesses above as I figured that wouldn't matter much. As far as the O-rings go, thicker would be better. If they're oiled good before putting them in they should slide in fairly easily. The O-ring thicknesses I list are pretty close to real as that is the one dimension where the ring is fairly firm. I did all the measurements using a Pittsburgh (Harbor Freight) vernier caliper w/ digital readout. I did forget to check for zero setting before I did the measurements but when I pulled the caliper out of the box this morning and turned it on it showed only 0.01 to 0.02 mm, so my readings above might be a touch high, but certainly not as much as 0.1 mm.

Baja Ron, how close to OEM diameter and thickness are the ones you sell?

 

[Cobwebs]

You talking about the the O-rings or the washers? The ones I measured is the kit that Baja Ron provides. Both washers are close to 1.35 mm thick. I didn't list their thicknesses above as I figured that wouldn't matter much. As far as the O-rings go, thicker would be better. If they're oiled good before putting them in they should slide in fairly easily. The O-ring thicknesses I list are pretty close to real as that is the one dimension where the ring is fairly firm. I did all the measurements using a Pittsburgh (Harbor Freight) vernier caliper w/ digital readout. I did forget to check for zero setting before I did the measurements but when I pulled the caliper out of the box this morning and turned it on it showed only 0.01 to 0.02 mm, so my readings above might be a touch high, but certainly not as much as 0.1 mm.

Baja Ron, how close to OEM diameter and thickness are the ones you sell?

The washers, reason being with the sump plug the two o rings must have to line up with something internally to seal completely and didn't know how critical that was.
If you can imagine a washer say five millimetres thick it would render the seal incomplete if you get what I'm talking about.
Transmission side shouldn't matter as it's just a basic plug.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

The washers, reason being with the sump plug the two o rings must have to line up with something internally to seal completely and didn't know how critical that was.
If you can imagine a washer say five millimetres thick it would render the seal incomplete if you get what I'm talking about.
Transmission side shouldn't matter as it's just a basic plug.

OK, I did wonder about that. I'm thinking that the bore the O-rings go into would be long enough to tolerate a variation in the washer thickness of maybe a mm, but then you know what happens when you do your own thinking! So the 1.4 mm thickness Triker mentions is essentially the same as what I measured. If the one that is 1.1 mm is the trans plug then it should work quite well also.

Your next challenge will be to determine which O-ring goes into which groove! It ain't quite as straightforward as one would expect because of the closeness in sizes of the rings, and IIRC, the grooves are wide enough to give quite a bit of slop for the ring to fit into.

 

[PMK]

Consider too, Durometer and material composition. As I recall, the oil filter stem and cap, all being plastic, uses a low durometer material, likely to prevent from cracking the oil filter housing on the engine. I believe even 70A would have more force than stock expanding the plastic towards failure, but maybe not.

The long drain plug I thought used green Viton O rings vs Nitrile. Most likely for better performance under heat.

I have kept a set of original oem O rings and drain plug gaskets. Sorry, just simply to lazy to measure them again. Years ago, I planned to do as you are. When the cost of the Viton O rings was added in, and low durometer stuff, I now simply visually inspect for concerns and no permanent set. Reuse if viable, replace if not.

 

[PMK]

Bored at 2am, accurately measured with a digital vernier caliper, and the large cap O ring ID checked for roundness and accuracy on applicable tooling.

As I mentioned earlier, none of the oem O rings are typical black nitrile material. As can be seen, they use a soft silicone type and high temp Viton type.

Small drain plug gasket is copper, large drain is gasket is aluminum.

Forgot too how many drain plugs I accumulated when dimensionally checking them on account of failures. Have two sets of Dimple Drain Plugs, One set of Gold Drain Plugs, and a set of oem drain plugs. Ironically, others have stated aftermarket drain plugs fail, yet no issues here and, when I was doing the comparison, I was handed a failed oem drain plug.

What does it mean...likely the torque spec is for a new engine with clean dry threads, and second, if you must torque your drain plug, adjust accordingly for a wet torque AND, be certain you have a good or excellent accurate torque wrench that you are properly using. This means correct range markings and set correctly.

All the best with your quest to save a few dollars, I get it, but certainly hope you get the correct type and material O rings. Never fun finding melted, swollen O rings or worse, split housings from excessive expanding force.

 

[Cobwebs]

Bored at 2am, accurately measured with a digital vernier caliper, and the large cap O ring ID checked for roundness and accuracy on applicable tooling.

As I mentioned earlier, none of the oem O rings are typical black nitrile material. As can be seen, they use a soft silicone type and high temp Viton type.

Small drain plug gasket is copper, large drain is gasket is aluminum.

Forgot too how many drain plugs I accumulated when dimensionally checking them on account of failures. Have two sets of Dimple Drain Plugs, One set of Gold Drain Plugs, and a set of oem drain plugs. Ironically, others have stated aftermarket drain plugs fail, yet no issues here and, when I was doing the comparison, I was handed a failed oem drain plug.

What does it mean...likely the torque spec is for a new engine with clean dry threads, and second, if you must torque your drain plug, adjust accordingly for a wet torque AND, be certain you have a good or excellent accurate torque wrench that you are properly using. This means correct range markings and set correctly.

All the best with your quest to save a few dollars, I get it, but certainly hope you get the correct type and material O rings. Never fun finding melted, swollen O rings or worse, split housings from excessive expanding force.

Thanks PMK, hmmm that makes it a bit trickier. One moment while I gather my thoughtsopcorn::cheers:

 

[PMK]

BTW, not sure why there is a dimension difference and material color / difference between what others posted and the dimensions / materials I came up with. The O rings I measured are new unused BRP products for a 1330. Possibly later versions use different materials, but those are the real deal and match oem O rings that get removed.

I went back and compared to what had been previously posted. Noticed the differences and double checked the cross section thickness of mine.

Good luck with it. Some seem available while others may be elusive. Regardless, if you get a substantial oil leak, not only can you trash an engine, but you could coat the rear tire and truly define this aggressive riding style so many claim they have...

 

[Cobwebs]

BTW, not sure why there is a dimension difference and material color / difference between what others posted and the dimensions / materials I came up with. The O rings I measured are new unused BRP products for a 1330. Possibly later versions use different materials, but those are the real deal and match oem O rings that get removed.

I went back and compared to what had been previously posted. Noticed the differences and double checked the cross section thickness of mine.

Good luck with it. Some seem available while others may be elusive. Regardless, if you get a substantial oil leak, not only can you trash an engine, but you could coat the rear tire and truly define this aggressive riding style so many claim they have...

If BRP had a heart (or a brain instead of a blackmail plan) they would sell the kit with a filter minus their low grade oil then none of this would be relevent.:banghead:

 

[Peter Aawen]

If BRP had a heart (or a brain instead of a blackmail plan) they would sell the kit with a filter minus their low grade oil then none of this would be relevent.:banghead:

:agree: . And IF they'd done that from the very start, there'd have been little call for others to supply products to suit that need/fill that gap in the market, so they'd probably have caught ALL of that section of the market and so they'd have sold and still be selling a HELLUVA lot more than they'll ever sell now!! :shocked:

 

[trikermutha]

Since the crush washers in most cases dont seal after being reused and over tightening the plugs dont help. JCthorne uses the sealing washers and they work very well. They seal the first time and dont have to over tighten the drain plugs.

Now I know someone mentioned on another thread reheating the copper crush washer and reusing them. That seems to work too from what he states.

Anyway good luck!

 

[PMK]

If BRP had a heart (or a brain instead of a blackmail plan) they would sell the kit with a filter minus their low grade oil then none of this would be relevent.:banghead:

Guessing that finding the correct O rings is not quite a simple task. I had researched this a long while back and came up short. The other night when I measured them for you, I checked my typical O ring supplier and had no luck getting them all from them.

All good to save money, and Spyder owners can be some of the most frugal folks out there. Simply though, be sure the risk vs reward makes saving a few dollars worth it. Especially considering how infrequently you probably accomplish an oil change.

 

[PMK]

Since the crush washers in most cases dont seal after being reused and over tightening the plugs dont help. JCthorne uses the sealing washers and they work very well. They seal the first time and dont have to over tighten the drain plugs.

Now I know someone mentioned on another thread reheating the copper crush washer and reusing them. That seems to work too from what he states.

Anyway good luck!

I have used sealing washers for decades on aircraft applications. Long before others were using them on Spyders, I had been running them on the drain plugs of not only our Spyder but other vehicles too.

Not all sealing washers are the same in regards to design. Since the Spyders Rotax engine uses a funky tapered style head on the short 1330 drain plug, I found some sealing washer designs are marginal at best in sealing. Same on the long double O ring drain plug. In simple terms, it is best to ensure the rubber sealing surface avoids being within the threaded area. If the sealing O ring enters the threaded section, the rubber is not crushed uniformly and could leak with use or extrude into the threads rendering the rubber portion cut and could fail if reused.

I have seen also, for automotive applications, rubber coated washers for oil drain plugs. If the correct size is available this may be another viable alternative that offers a greater sealing surface area.

As I mentioned previously, it would likely be spectacular if oil sprayed onto your rear tire while riding. Be safe and be careful.

 

[Cobwebs]

Guessing that finding the correct O rings is not quite a simple task. I had researched this a long while back and came up short. The other night when I measured them for you, I checked my typical O ring supplier and had no luck getting them all from them.

All good to save money, and Spyder owners can be some of the most frugal folks out there. Simply though, be sure the risk vs reward makes saving a few dollars worth it. Especially considering how infrequently you probably accomplish an oil change.

The more I search the more elusive the exact sizes become and some that are close are like $10 each :banghead: Hard to believe its so complicated to change a few litres of oil. What an evil plan on BRP's behalf.
I wonder do people who have the dealer do their maintenance ask to see the replaced o rings and seals.I wouldn't mind betting they don't use the official retail pack that us mugs are supposed to cough up for.Most likely the oil comes out of the 200 litre drum in the corner and a new filter if your lucky and thats it.

 

[trikermutha]

I have used sealing washers for decades on aircraft applications. Long before others were using them on Spyders, I had been running them on the drain plugs of not only our Spyder but other vehicles too.

Not all sealing washers are the same in regards to design. Since the Spyders Rotax engine uses a funky tapered style head on the short 1330 drain plug, I found some sealing washer designs are marginal at best in sealing. Same on the long double O ring drain plug. In simple terms, it is best to ensure the rubber sealing surface avoids being within the threaded area. If the sealing O ring enters the threaded section, the rubber is not crushed uniformly and could leak with use or extrude into the threads rendering the rubber portion cut and could fail if reused.

I have seen also, for automotive applications, rubber coated washers for oil drain plugs. If the correct size is available this may be another viable alternative that offers a greater sealing surface area.

As I mentioned previously, it would likely be spectacular if oil sprayed onto your rear tire while riding. Be safe and be careful.

Why would it be spectacular if oil sprayed on my rear wheel.:hun: