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Cops in Cuba......
- Thread starter Firefly
- Start date
HEY FIREFLY!
Sorry to "yell";, but I need your attention for a moment or two...pps:
You have got me seriously wondering about your perspective here... I've been pretty transparent about my age and viewpoint; where are you coming from?
Are you older than me; remembering "3 days of peace, love and rock & roll" with the kindness of time softening the edges a bit? Do you die a bit more each time Altamont is mentioned? Not trusting "Anybody over 30"; does that ring in your mind? How about "Sticking it to The Man"?
Or are you just young enough to think that dispespecting the folks who are paid to run toward danger to protect you and your family is cool?
The Cuba PD probably set up their checkpoints to provide a presense... yeah; pick up the easy offenders who aren't smart enough to keep their paperwork in order or stop anhybody who's got a bit too much party on their mind early in the game...
But what's yor story??? Please PM me if you don'y want it out in the open forum because I am genuinely curious about how you can carry around so much "Us versus THEM" mentality... without poppping.
And don't you EVER dismiss a killed by a drunjk driver story with, "Yada yada" ever again! Those people have suffered, and you've just made a mockery of it... :lecturef_smilie:
Sorry for getting a bit grumpy, but it can happen to the best of us once in a while...
Well Said Sir!!!!
lease..I'm just a "Bob"
Well, they call me "Sweet Old Bob" at least I THINK that's what those initials stand for:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:!!
thehawk
Made my day as I read the morning news and have a coffee...... Well done:clap::clap:
IGETAROUND
Active member
Well now that we've found our latest HOT thread; how is everyone enjoying Spyder feast????
SteveMac
MOgang Member & Monster Member,
Well I am Loving It!
And judging by the crowd at Friday Night Lights, I think most everyone is having a good time.
Firefly
Active member
I guess some just don't get it. If the ends justify the means, then by all means.....let the police search your house, car and various orifices at will...without just cause.
http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/DrivingIssues/1103163004.html
Chief Justice Rehnquist had argued that violating individual constitutional rights was justified because sobriety roadblocks were effective and necessary. But dissenting Justice Stevens pointed out that "the findings of the trial court, based on an extensive record and affirmed by the Michigan Court of Appeals, indicate that the net effect of sobriety checkpoints on traffic safety is infinitesimal and possibly negative." [SUP]3[/SUP] And even if roadblocks were effective, the fact that they work wouldn’t justify violating individuals’ constitutional rights, justices argued.
How about they come search your house for guns just because if they search 300 houses they might find 5 illegal weapons that might be used to kill someone?
How about they do checkpoints to search every car for drugs? You gonna let them search your car without a specific warrant directed at you? No way will I allow this.
Bob, FYI. I'm 46 and generally very liberal......but this is one situation where I'm with the conservatives. I don't hate the man, and respect cops very much.....just don't believe these checkpoints are right, nor have I seen any evidence of them lowering DUI accidents.
The ends don't always justify the means.
Oh, and I'll yada yada whatever I want, thank you very much.......;-)
Tired of having to be overly PC just because someone might be offended.
http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/DrivingIssues/1103163004.html
Chief Justice Rehnquist had argued that violating individual constitutional rights was justified because sobriety roadblocks were effective and necessary. But dissenting Justice Stevens pointed out that "the findings of the trial court, based on an extensive record and affirmed by the Michigan Court of Appeals, indicate that the net effect of sobriety checkpoints on traffic safety is infinitesimal and possibly negative." [SUP]3[/SUP] And even if roadblocks were effective, the fact that they work wouldn’t justify violating individuals’ constitutional rights, justices argued.
How about they come search your house for guns just because if they search 300 houses they might find 5 illegal weapons that might be used to kill someone?
How about they do checkpoints to search every car for drugs? You gonna let them search your car without a specific warrant directed at you? No way will I allow this.
Bob, FYI. I'm 46 and generally very liberal......but this is one situation where I'm with the conservatives. I don't hate the man, and respect cops very much.....just don't believe these checkpoints are right, nor have I seen any evidence of them lowering DUI accidents.
The ends don't always justify the means.
Oh, and I'll yada yada whatever I want, thank you very much.......;-)
Tired of having to be overly PC just because someone might be offended.
BajaRon
Well-known member
The system did not fail. What happened is the people failed to adhere to the system and they failed. That is exactly what is being discussed here.
If the ends justify the means, then any means is justified.
Every democratic society in history has ended up in tyranny, and always for the same reason. When people realize that they can vote to themselves other people's resources it's all downhill from there.They make the step down to socialism and that always degrades into tyranny.
Firefly
Active member
It has been an awesome time. Amazing event put on by tons of hard working people. The whole town has been great----- and even the state cops have given some breaks to those caught speeding.
Chazzman
New member
I do agree that it is uncomfortable to pass through check points. I doubt there are very many Spyder riders that drink and drive, and if these check points were due to the Spyder gathering then that kinda sucks. All the money that comes into Cuba for this event that one day could be like a Daytona bike week... If your breaking the law or riding crazy then you should be stopped by the police. If you are there to support the town and spend money why make a positive thing a negative by having check points. That can certainly be a turn off for future events in my opinion.
I think it is absouletely stupid to drink and ride or drive...Been there done that and got my pin years ago, stupid then and stupid now
I think it is absouletely stupid to drink and ride or drive...Been there done that and got my pin years ago, stupid then and stupid now
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wyliec
New member
Thanks Ron,
Now I know where/how the tv series 'Justified' got its name. Great series, by the way.
Now, back to the debate. :banghead:
Arr MiHardies
New member
isn't that exactly what's happening? Again...? In this case not adhering to the fourth amendment.
r1100rider
New member
The problem with this whole debate is if we all bow down to the ends justify the means than we all should wear helments in a car give up our spyders our bikes our sharp knifes and let the goverment decide who can breed just like hitler believed all these things would save lifes and would be justified by the ends right
Arr MiHardies
New member
I'm of mixed opinion on this whole thing. I live in Vegas, which has one of the highest DUI rates out there. I addition to having been struck by a drunk driver back in August. Luckily no serious injuries to write home about, and a nice settlement coming my way.
I'm all for giving drunk drivers who kill the murder charge. I'd also like to see drunk drivers who don't kill attempted murder (or at least manslaughter) charges. Enough is enough, and its time to crack down HARD on these morons that think it's okay to put everyone's life in danger.
My father and uncle are retired firefighters, and a great many of my family and relatives were/are in the service. Even my wife works for the police department as a corrections assistant. I have nothing but respect for the men and women who risk their lives for us on a daily basis.
However, nothing gives the any of them the right to search me or my property without just cause. I am supposed to be protected from that by the fourth amendment. Period. Just because I am driving or riding somewhere is not cause. They want me to stop, fine. As police officers they have the authority to pull someone over and set up road blocks. But unless I exhibit symptoms of having been drinking, they had better wave me by pretty darn quickly. Otherwise there is no just cause and any searches would be illegal.
And the way it is being described as occurring in Cuba, it is clearly evident it was set up as a result of the presence of 500+ spyders. That is profiling at best and discrimination at worst.
Do you think the cops out here tried that BS during the Laughlin River Run this week?... Where there were thousands of bikers? Hell no! There'd be a riot! And a quick google search confirms it.
I'm all for giving drunk drivers who kill the murder charge. I'd also like to see drunk drivers who don't kill attempted murder (or at least manslaughter) charges. Enough is enough, and its time to crack down HARD on these morons that think it's okay to put everyone's life in danger.
My father and uncle are retired firefighters, and a great many of my family and relatives were/are in the service. Even my wife works for the police department as a corrections assistant. I have nothing but respect for the men and women who risk their lives for us on a daily basis.
However, nothing gives the any of them the right to search me or my property without just cause. I am supposed to be protected from that by the fourth amendment. Period. Just because I am driving or riding somewhere is not cause. They want me to stop, fine. As police officers they have the authority to pull someone over and set up road blocks. But unless I exhibit symptoms of having been drinking, they had better wave me by pretty darn quickly. Otherwise there is no just cause and any searches would be illegal.
And the way it is being described as occurring in Cuba, it is clearly evident it was set up as a result of the presence of 500+ spyders. That is profiling at best and discrimination at worst.
Do you think the cops out here tried that BS during the Laughlin River Run this week?... Where there were thousands of bikers? Hell no! There'd be a riot! And a quick google search confirms it.
BajaRon
Well-known member
A pretty emotional subject, to be sure. Having been in the fire service in San Diego, CA. for 33 years I saw some pretty horrendous things caused by drunk drivers. I am not, in any way, favorable to drinking and driving.
As others have pointed out, our founding fathers who came from intollerable conditions, gave us protections against what they escaped. Things don't go from freedom to tyranny quickly. It's a 'Boil the Frog', gradual loss of freedoms. Piece by piece, bit by bit, always with great justification and many times with wide public support. Until you wake up one day and someone is tellling you when to breath in and when to breath out.
If you really want to put a hurt on drunk driving, set up checkpoints at the exits of any alcohol serving establishment. And then wait for the wailing to begin!
Just my $0.02.
As others have pointed out, our founding fathers who came from intollerable conditions, gave us protections against what they escaped. Things don't go from freedom to tyranny quickly. It's a 'Boil the Frog', gradual loss of freedoms. Piece by piece, bit by bit, always with great justification and many times with wide public support. Until you wake up one day and someone is tellling you when to breath in and when to breath out.
If you really want to put a hurt on drunk driving, set up checkpoints at the exits of any alcohol serving establishment. And then wait for the wailing to begin!
Just my $0.02.
A
arntufun
Guest
I agree with you HDX and Firefly, but don't bother to waste your breath on trying to convince these people that checkpoints are wrong. All they care about is the aspects of preventing DUI not the rights people died over to protect. It's sad but, it's already a lost cause.
We all should save this thread and when Vetrans Day rolls around we will certainly see one of these supporters of the checkpoints thanking Vets in the yearly salute to Vetrans. We all should remind them that they don't care if they have rights Vetrans fought for. :doorag:
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wyliec
New member
I think we thank veterans for our right to freedom of choice.
I learned my lesson last year on debating checkpoints here. My feeling on debating anything is it's better face-to-face.
The one thing I will debate you on is: veterans, not vetrans.
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wyliec
New member
I know Fly is alright. He watches Kenny Powers.
Roger
New member
Well somebody sure did slap a behive today! All i am saying about this issue and yes you should all take note. As a member of the AMA thier is a big push to end (MOC'S) Motorcycle Only Checkpoints. Some states have already done this, I have sent messages to all my representatives to end this practice in New York State. Yes i vote and usually i let whatever happens happen but this time i got involved and told them that this is discrimination in the highest form!! and if i can't ride my bike with out being subject to these check points then i will take my bike and ride else where and spend my money thier.
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