Companies dumping the NRA

[RinconRyder]

Could you tell us the source of that statement?
If a Teacher were to be armed: their SOLE purpose, is to get the students secure, lock the door, and wait for the Law Enforcement Personnel to come get them.
They will announce their presence before entering, and the Teacher should respond: letting them know that there is a firearm in the room with them. They would then be given instructions as to how they should stand down... :thumbup:

And what then happens to the armed teacher when they hear people being shot in the next room? Do they continue to hunker down?

This is just more NRA BS!

 

[RinconRyder]

If we took the Homeland Security budget and constructed a world-class mental health care system that was FREE to anyone who asked for help, we could solve a lot of the problems in this country (and empty the jails) and be MUCH safer than we are now.

Not saying your idea is totally wrong but most mentally ill people either do not recognize they are mentally ill or they are of the type that doesn't commit mass murders and are no public threat. In either event they, most probably, would not voluntarily commit themselves due to the current stigma we put on mental patients.

 

[r1100rider]

And what then happens to the armed teacher when they hear people being shot in the next room? Do they continue to hunker down?

This is just more NRA BS!

again if the attacker’s didn’t know that they would have the easy pickings of a gun free zone most of these attacks wouldn’t take place in the first place how many guns jumped off the shelf at gun shows and caused mass shootings, now on the another fact the msm isn’t telling you the push for good crime stats has caused the law and school
officiials to not report so that they can get federal money and report low false crime stats if a few of the 20 plus calls on this guy would have been logged instead of ignored he would have never passed back ground check, the fbi visited the bail bondsman who tried to warn and never visited the shooter even though he had 30 plus police visits since 2008 , the argument that the teachers would see swat in the hallway doesn’t hold water you all trust the government so much so the police would have id and pictures of the people who should be there plus look at all the past shootings they are over in minutes it takes a while for police and swat to get in to position the armed people inside would have direct connection with police , the Australia argument isn’t telling you about the increase in the bad guys just kicking the door in because they knew no one inside had protections any more. All you people who want no more guns please put a sign up in your yard so your house gets robbed because they mite meet lead at mine, 90% of the cops I ever talk to make sure that there wifes and daughters carry when they travel alone in bad areas

 

[RinconRyder]

again if the attacker’s didn’t know that they would have the easy pickings of a gun free zone most of these attacks wouldn’t take place in the first place how many guns jumped off the shelf at gun shows and caused mass shootings, now on the another fact the msm isn’t telling you the push for good crime stats has caused the law and school
officiials to not report so that they can get federal money and report low false crime stats if a few of the 20 plus calls on this guy would have been logged instead of ignored he would have never passed back ground check, the fbi visited the bail bondsman who tried to warn and never visited the shooter even though he had 30 plus police visits since 2008 , the argument that the teachers would see swat in the hallway doesn’t hold water you all trust the government so much so the police would have id and pictures of the people who should be there plus look at all the past shootings they are over in minutes it takes a while for police and swat to get in to position the armed people inside would have direct connection with police , the Australia argument isn’t telling you about the increase in the bad guys just kicking the door in because they knew no one inside had protections any more. All you people who want no more guns please put a sign up in your yard so your house gets robbed because they mite meet lead at mine, 90% of the cops I ever talk to make sure that there wifes and daughters carry when they travel alone in bad areas

Your rant would perhaps be understandable if it weren't one very long sentence.

 

[UtahPete]

Not saying your idea is totally wrong but most mentally ill people either do not recognize they are mentally ill or they are of the type that doesn't commit mass murders and are no public threat. In either event they, most probably, would not voluntarily commit themselves due to the current stigma we put on mental patients.

You are absolutely correct.

 

[Slowpoke387]

One very effective tactic...

Would be to stop making celebrities out of the killers. It’s blatently obvious that these morons want fame. And the media feeds it to them on a silver platter. The first thing we all see is a nice clear head shot with the killer’s name plastered all over every news outlet possible.
Keep making them famous and they will keep shooting the place up.
This is not rocket science. Im stunned that there hasnt been more attention paid to asking what the killers actually get out of this.
It’s the infamy, it’s the legend status they think they get in the world of morons. If we stopped plastering them all over the media, you would see a dramatic drop in these events. Id bet the farm on it.

 

[UtahPete]

What good would an "intelligence" test do? Unless someone is totally dysfunctional how would you determine their suitability for marriage? I have known several couples who are dumb as rocks but very happy together.

And what about a 'means' test? Your wealth can change daily so what is appropriate today may change radically within a six month period. Look at all the people who contract an expensive disease and go bankrupt trying to pay for medical care.

A waiting period? Just run off to Mexico or some other country who doesn't have a waiting period. Too many loopholes.

I was being facetious.

 

[loisk]

I generally stay well clear of this topic, recognising that it is divisive and emotional, and not always rational - but as Australia has popped up a couple of times, I am chiming in...

Yes we had a gun amnesty and buy back after an idiot went crazy in Tasmania - perhaps ironically at a tourist site of an earlier colonial penal colony. The Prime Minister of the day pushed through the new laws against much opposition, but stood his ground against lobby and interest groups, with the support of the majority of ordinary Australians.

To the poster who said we need guns against people who bash down the doors of our homes - I point out that we are generally not facing bad guys with guns! Yes, it happens, but is not the norm. There are bad guys everywhere, but I am thankful that ours usually don't have guns... and do not want to adopt the American model. I won't argue against your model, but please do not export it.

Re mental health as a cause - hmmm. Easy to say in hindsight, not easy to predict. Perhaps better to look at why our societies in the western world are fractured, divisive and stressful. It's a bit hard to predict which individual will crack.

A look at history may help - Australia began as a penal colony but within a few short years was settled by free pioneers. That said, the British authorities had the guns, and didn't hesitate to use them against Australians promoting different views - Google Eureka Stockade for one example. (Edit - farmers and settlers had rifles too, they weren't and aren't totally banned) Conversely, if I remember American history correctly from my uni days, your vaunted second (?) amendment, the right to bear arms, came about after mad King George was chucked off and was then deemed essential - the fledgling nation did not then have a standing military, and arms held by patriotic (to the new nation) civilians was the only way to prevent invasion by the other European powers hovering around at the time. A sensible, pragmatic solution for the issue of the day. It does seem, to those watching from "outside", to have taken on a life of its own - I wonder if the founding fathers are turning in their graves at the current mindset?

 

[UtahPete]

Lois, bravo on all points.

 

[AY4B]

You are a legal adult at 18. Your rights are to be protected by the constitution.

18-20 year olds need to file a lawsuit claiming there 2nd amendment rights are being violated. You have the right to bear arms. You have the right to defend yourself and your loved ones. I will not ever Shop at Dicks and don't really care what they think.

 

[loisk]

Yet the drinking age in Texas is 21 ... I shall watch the news for the lawsuit claiming constitutional right to get drunk ...

 

[rudym]

collective approach needed

I am a retired naval bomb disposal officer - I qualified expert on both rifles and pistols. I own 1 rifle, 3 pistols - they are all in safes and will stay there unless needed to kill a rabid animal or the likes. I used to hunt but do not anymore - although I still eat game when someone else brings it to the table More important to this conversation, this thread and nationally:
I have two children, a son and a daughter in their 40's, with 3 grandchildren in elementary school
I work in a health care related field with people who are many times on the "edge" or Verge" and often times in chronic pain...... mental health issues abound in this country yet our mental health care systems and pain management methods are deplorable - gutted - is a good term. If you had a daughter or son of legal age or spouse with mental health problems, and they already owned a gun - you COULD NOT have it taken away from them unless they had already become a documented threat to themselves or others and many times an incident of this nature goes unreported. Here in Alabama as I was told "unless there is an incident there is no problem". Very hard to have someone legally declared a danger to themselves or others. Depression and schizophrenia and other forms of metal illness like PTSD don't always advertise themselves in a way that gets folks locked up or gets them mandated help. Even folks with professional help - go off their meds - and the issues return. We live at a time when info streams so fast and our little peoples are exposed to sooooo damn much violence on the t.v., the video games, 23 years of endless war and military conflicts and endless terrorist attacks that our most delicate minds, our children and those with mental illness are being ravaged by fear and warped by repetitive images of violence.... many in single parent homes. We sit behind our little computer screens and type how important the 2nd amendment is to our rights. To our safety our security our happiness and rights of self determination but none of us (that I know of) who is arguing about gun ownership rights, has a child or loved one that has bleed out at school or a concert, because the mental health system failed to inform the judicial system (due to someone's privacy rights) THAT DANGER WAS AT HAND.
YOUR LOVED ones are in DANGER!! We worry so much about the rights of the individual (and criminal) without being more concerned with the rights of the masses (victims).
Lots of analogies are available from fertilizer bombs, to drinking and smoking to texting and driving and so on..... but nothing can inflict so much pain and suffering on so many people (families) churches (people) communities AS SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN LOST IN THE SYSTEM WHICH HAS FAILED THEM and they snap.... Combine that someone with a very lethal weapon that is conveniently close at hand and tragedy of the worst kind ensues. Maybe they were bullied, maybe rejected, maybe just lost in the darkness of despair after loosing the only person that they ever loved, even if it was a pet - it doesn't matter why, when you go over the edge you go over the edge and finding bottom is never pleasant for anyone. Will reducing the # of rounds a weapon can hold to 6 stop the deaths? NO - but it will help
Will removing weapons capable of inflicting mass destruction stop the deaths? NO - but it will help
Will improving the mental health care affordability and access and referral system in this country stop the deaths? NO - but it will help
Will computerized and anonymous reporting of potentially dangerous people (on the verge) or whatever by a family member stop the deaths? NO but it will help.
Will temporarily removing the guns from a home where firearm security (safes and trigger locks) are not available stop the deaths? NO but it will help
Will putting the lives of people in mass before the enjoyment of single right to bear arms gun ownership stop the deaths? NO but it will help
Will getting the entertainment industry like Hollywood and video game producers to minimize violent content stop the deaths? No but it will help
Will politicians stop taking monies from the firearm industry stop the deaths? NO but it will help
Will requiring the private sale of handguns to be run through a licensed firearm dealer to ensure background checks stop the deaths? NO - but it will help.
Will mandating training and licensing for firearms stop the deaths? NO but it will help. These are just a few things that, IMO, would help, and each of them comes with many pro's and con's; but together, collectively, they could make a huge difference. If one of these things could stop your most loved one from dying tomorrow - what would that be worth to you?​

 

[wyliec]

And what then happens to the armed teacher when they hear people being shot in the next room? Do they continue to hunker down?

This is just more NRA BS!

Any thoughts on the armed security (SRO) that never entered the building during the Florida School shooting, while the shooter was active?

 

[Bob Denman]

Not to be argumentative, but if that's the case what is the point of the teacher being armed?

And, then there's this; https://www.dallasnews.com/news/tex...-churchgoers-hostage-police-shoot-man-disarms

A Teacher's responsibility is to the Students in that classroom... keep the situation from becoming even worse. This is a defensive tactic: MUCH more training would be needed, if you wanted the School Personnel to go on the offensive. :thumbup:
If I were a School Administrator: I wouldn't want my personnel roaming the Halls looking for a fight. nojoke

 

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

:agree: Aim for the proper target: the NRA believes in responsible ownership of firearms, marksmanship and personal safety training for adults, and their Eddie Eagle Program teaches kids to:
STOP!
DON'T TOUCH!
LEAVE THE AREA!
TELL AN ADULT!

while i do agree with those statements the nra also says semi auto & high capacity "hell yea".

 

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

There is not a law on the books or one that can be made that will keep a criminal or nut from acquiring and using a gun. They just don't pay attention to laws. End of story.

unless you believe that the u.s. has more criminals or nut jobs then other western countries then i would like to know
why our criminals have more guns and where do they come from?

 

[Bob Denman]

And what then happens to the armed teacher when they hear people being shot in the next room? Do they continue to hunker down?

This is just more NRA BS!

No... It's smart gunfighting tactics!
1. Protect your classroom... lock the door, and remain hidden off to one side of it...
2. You'd have to get a feel for the situation; in order to know if you could react to gunshots in an adjoining room. If the mutt went in, and was taking the time to shoot everyone :shocked:: that WOULD in theory: give you time enough to unlock your door (QUIETLY!!!!!), and shoot the mutt as he leaves the room...


..But that's a call made at the moment, by the person in the room. Without the training necessary: they would be exposing themselves and their students to Death Sentences... nojoke

There is NO such thing as a fair gunfight, and second place finishes get you buried.
If you can ambush the Mutt without endangering the Students: it would be what I'd do!

 

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

i would like to say 20 years ago i dated a shrink for about a year, she ran the psych department for a hospital, she
worked mostly on tweens & young teens, she would tell me all the time these kids were screwed up because of the
parents. she also told me some of them would possibly become future serial killers. she was limited on what she
could do to the parents and for the kids.
Yes it is the parents fault but don't forget who does the act.

 

[Bob Denman]

Perhaps we really need "Procreation Regulation and Registration". :dontknow:

 

[AY4B]

Yet the drinking age in Texas is 21 ... I shall watch the news for the lawsuit claiming constitutional right to get drunk ...

Drinking is not a constitutional right. The drinking age in any state has nothing to do with the right to bear arms.