Chevy Volt ad, see it while u can

[wyliec]

I'm not smart enough to join this conversation. But my Eco friendly vehicle would be the Tesla

View attachment 42111

http://www.teslamotors.com/models

Yeah, me too, if I had the money.

 

[Arr MiHardies]

I always wanted an Aptera.... Unfortunately they couldn't get the loans they needed to begin production.

http://www.google.com/search?q=apte...A&biw=1024&bih=672&sei=4GJhT6vmK8js2gXtyNyBCA

 

[dancogan]

I'm not smart enough to join this conversation...

If I've learned anything from this converrsation it's that you don't need to be very smart to join in! roflmaoroflmaoroflmao

 

[Bob Denman]

Did somebody just mention my name?? :roflblack:
"Microbes that eat garbage and excrete oils"?? :shocked:

 

[MarkLawson]

HUH??

The Volt will go as far as any other car on the road. First 40 miles are off electric..... then the gas generator turns on and you can drive however long you want. There is no limit.

Firefly, I stand corrected. I was unaware it was a duel power source vehicle. It does have an 85.3 cubic inch engine. Here is a link to Edmunds review: http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/volt/2012/

From that report:
'If you have a 30-mile round-trip commute and you plug in your Volt every night when you get home (a full charge requires as few as 3 hours), give yourself a gold star. Your fuel economy would be infinite because you'd always be running off the battery pack and hence never use gas.

Now let's say you have a 60-mile commute. In that case you'd be using gasoline for driving about 30 miles each day, so you'd be fueling up regularly. In an Edmunds test of a Volt with the battery pack depleted, the car averaged 31.4 mpg in mixed driving. This isn't a bad mileage figure compared to regular gas vehicles, but it is seriously subpar when compared to the mid-40s mpg that a standard hybrid typically provides.'

From this paragraph, for drives that go beyond a full battery charge range, the battery appears to save the equivalent of about one gallon of gas.

The home charging station is a separate cost from the price of the car if you want the convenience of 240v quick charging (3-4 hours). Standard 120v charging is an option with about 11-12 hours charge times.

Per AutomobileMag.com

'SPX estimates the typical installation will cost $1475. The 240-volt cord set will cost $490. Nissan’s charging partner, Aerovironment, provides a similar service to Leaf drivers and says its typical installation is about $235 more at $2200 including the hardware. Both companies acknowledge, though, that every installation is different and many customers will pay more or less than their average.'

http://www.automobilemag.com/green/...volt_home_charging_station_install/index.html

As far as government subsidies go, check out this report from: http://hotair.com/archives/2011/12/21/govt-subsidies-for-chevy-volt-up-to-250000-per-car/

'Each Chevy Volt sold thus far may have as much as $250,000 in state and federal dollars in incentives behind it – a total of $3 billion altogether, according to an analysis by James Hohman, assistant director of fiscal policy at the Mackinac Center for Public Policy.
Hohman looked at total state and federal assistance offered for the development and production of the Chevy Volt, General Motors’ plug-in hybrid electric vehicle. His analysis included 18 government deals that included loans, rebates, grants and tax credits. The amount of government assistance does not include the fact that General Motors is currently 26 percent owned by the federal government. …
GM has estimated they’ve sold 6,000 Volts so far. That would mean each of the 6,000 Volts sold would be subsidized between $50,000 and $250,000, depending on how many government subsidy milestones are realized.
If battery manufacturers awarded incentives to produce batteries the Volt may use are included in the analysis, the potential government subsidy per Volt increases to $256,824. For example, A123 Systems has received extensive state and federal support, and bid to be a supplier to the Volt, but the deal instead went to Compact Power. The $256,824 figure includes adding up the subsidies to both companies.
The $3 billion total subsidy figure includes $690.4 million offered by the state of Michigan and $2.3 billion in federal money. That’s enough to purchase 75,222 Volts with a sticker price of $39,828.'

 

[Bob Denman]

Per AutomobileMag.com

'SPX estimates the typical installation will cost $1475. The 240-volt cord set will cost $490. Nissan’s charging partner, Aerovironment, provides a similar service to Leaf drivers and says its typical installation is about $235 more at $2200 including the hardware. Both companies acknowledge, though, that every installation is different and many customers will pay more or less than their average.'

That's a lot of green for the priviledge of going green... :shocked: :gaah:

 

[zrc]

At CES this year the powermat people for your cell phone are working on a BIG @$$ mat for your garage and your car, I bet is more than 2200.

 

[spyder3]

Our debt is larger then our entire economy. Is this really the time to abandon fossil fuels and throw money at green companies randomly? A change over to "green technology" should be done from a position of strength, not weakness with a moderate approach. We could blow the Middle east out of the water with our own resources and countries lkie iran won't be worried about having nuclear weapons, they would not be able to afford them.

That being said, i am an associate for a green energy company that brings 20% -100% renewable energy alternatives to homes and business in NJ , Pa, NJ, Conn, Md & IL where people actually save money on there electricity & gas bills do to deregulation. The difference is it doesn't cost you anything to change suppliers and its based off wind energy being generated already in place.

Instead of being force fed 40k cars a more deliberate approach will eventually get people moving in the right direction. Higher gas prices isn't going to make people think green, its going to wreck this dubious recovery as it is. JMHO

 

[Arr MiHardies]

Our debt is larger then our entire economy. Is this really the time to abandon fossil fuels and throw money at green companies randomly? A change over to "green technology" should be done from a position of strength, not weakness with a moderate approach.

There will always be some excuse not to do it. Our economy may not be as strong as it once was, but the real question is can we afford not to go green?

 

[spyder3]

There will always be some excuse not to do it. Our economy may not be as strong as it once was, but the real question is can we afford not to go green?

"not a strong as it once was" would be quite the understatement. And what i said wasn't really making an excuse since i'm all for it. I'm just against how its being done. This is a private sector matter, not our govt throwing money at companies and hoping it works. Not our govt denying the keystone pipeline with our friends to the north. This govt would rather keep the middle east or venezuela in business:banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[Campverdefela]

There will always be some excuse not to do it. Our economy may not be as strong as it once was, but the real question is can we afford not to go green?

Yes, when it means were going to bankrupt ourselves. Going green is good but we need to be smarter about it. The electric car is the cart before the horse mentality, the batteries should have been perfected first. Power plants in this country should be fueled by natural gas, we in the sunny states should have mandatory solar panels on all new home construction, and Congress and the Senate should get off their duffs and pass the oil pipeline, geez theirs already a dozen lines that cross the US, whats the problem?

 

[Firefly]

Firefly, I stand corrected. I was unaware it was a duel power source vehicle. It does have an 85.3 cubic inch engine. Here is a link to Edmunds review: http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/volt/2012/

From that report:
'If you have a 30-mile round-trip commute and you plug in your Volt every night when you get home (a full charge requires as few as 3 hours), give yourself a gold star. Your fuel economy would be infinite because you'd always be running off the battery pack and hence never use gas.

Now let's say you have a 60-mile commute. In that case you'd be using gasoline for driving about 30 miles each day, so you'd be fueling up regularly. In an Edmunds test of a Volt with the battery pack depleted, the car averaged 31.4 mpg in mixed driving. This isn't a bad mileage figure compared to regular gas vehicles, but it is seriously subpar when compared to the mid-40s mpg that a standard hybrid typically provides.'

From this paragraph, for drives that go beyond a full battery charge range, the battery appears to save the equivalent of about one gallon of gas.

The home charging station is a separate cost from the price of the car if you want the convenience of 240v quick charging (3-4 hours). Standard 120v charging is an option with about 11-12 hours charge times.

Per AutomobileMag.com

'SPX estimates the typical installation will cost $1475. The 240-volt cord set will cost $490. Nissan’s charging partner, Aerovironment, provides a similar service to Leaf drivers and says its typical installation is about $235 more at $2200 including the hardware. Both companies acknowledge, though, that every installation is different and many customers will pay more or less than their average.'

http://www.automobilemag.com/green/...volt_home_charging_station_install/index.html

As far as government subsidies go, check out this report from: http://hotair.com/archives/2011/12/21/govt-subsidies-for-chevy-volt-up-to-250000-per-car/

'Each Chevy Volt sold thus far may have as much as $250,000 in state and federal dollars in incentives behind it – a total of $3 billion altogether, according to an analysis by James Hohman, assistant director of fiscal policy at the Mackinac Center for Public Policy.
Hohman looked at total state and federal assistance offered for the development and production of the Chevy Volt, General Motors’ plug-in hybrid electric vehicle. His analysis included 18 government deals that included loans, rebates, grants and tax credits. The amount of government assistance does not include the fact that General Motors is currently 26 percent owned by the federal government. …
GM has estimated they’ve sold 6,000 Volts so far. That would mean each of the 6,000 Volts sold would be subsidized between $50,000 and $250,000, depending on how many government subsidy milestones are realized.
If battery manufacturers awarded incentives to produce batteries the Volt may use are included in the analysis, the potential government subsidy per Volt increases to $256,824. For example, A123 Systems has received extensive state and federal support, and bid to be a supplier to the Volt, but the deal instead went to Compact Power. The $256,824 figure includes adding up the subsidies to both companies.
The $3 billion total subsidy figure includes $690.4 million offered by the state of Michigan and $2.3 billion in federal money. That’s enough to purchase 75,222 Volts with a sticker price of $39,828.'

My daily commute to work is 14 miles round trip-- the average in America is 32 miles round trip... so many, many Americans could drive to work without ever using any gas.

The $250,000 subsidies math is totally flawed. To take ONE year of Volt sales and divide it by the initial investment is just silly - no company works like this. Investment in anything is always a larger upfront cost.

We just built a new high school in our town ---- for $60 Million dollars. The school has 2,000 students. So using the above 'logic', that school cost us $30,000 per student! Doesn't work..... the school will be used for a good 30 years.....so you'd really have to divide out the investment over the 30 years... just like any return on investment is done.

The Volt is no different. Over time the original investments (subsidies) get divided out into all of the various years of production and all the various technologies that will spill over into other vehicles, etc.....

 

[Firefly]

Our debt is larger then our entire economy. Is this really the time to abandon fossil fuels and throw money at green companies randomly? A change over to "green technology" should be done from a position of strength, not weakness with a moderate approach. We could blow the Middle east out of the water with our own resources and countries lkie iran won't be worried about having nuclear weapons, they would not be able to afford them.

That being said, i am an associate for a green energy company that brings 20% -100% renewable energy alternatives to homes and business in NJ , Pa, NJ, Conn, Md & IL where people actually save money on there electricity & gas bills do to deregulation. The difference is it doesn't cost you anything to change suppliers and its based off wind energy being generated already in place.

Instead of being force fed 40k cars a more deliberate approach will eventually get people moving in the right direction. Higher gas prices isn't going to make people think green, its going to wreck this dubious recovery as it is. JMHO

Not sure where you're getting your numbers, but our debt isn't larger than our entire economy..... it just became almost equal to it. Also realize that about 60% of that debt is money we owe to our self.... nothing more than on paper.

I think NOW is the time to invest in the future technology.... if we don't.... China will beat us to it.

 

[spyder3]

Not sure where you're getting your numbers, but our debt isn't larger than our entire economy..... it just became almost equal to it. Also realize that about 60% of that debt is money we owe to our self.... nothing more than on paper.

I think NOW is the time to invest in the future technology.... if we don't.... China will beat us to it.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

We borrow 42 cents on the dollar from china to pay our bills, where we could be exporting our resources to china(and everywhere else) whose consumption levels are increasing dramatically. We are dependent on to many other countries instead of them being dependent on us. China will beat us to what? We already can't compete on solar panels.
"Also realize that about 60% of that debt is money we owe to our self.... nothing more than on paper." :yikes::banghead:

 

[Firefly]

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

We borrow 42 cents on the dollar from china to pay our bills, where we could be exporting our resources to china(and everywhere else) whose consumption levels are increasing dramatically. We are dependent on to many other countries instead of them being dependent on us. China will beat us to what? We already can't compete on solar panels.
"Also realize that about 60% of that debt is money we owe to our self.... nothing more than on paper." :yikes::banghead:

Maybe this article and charts can explain things better than I can. Hopefully this can clear it up for you.....actually my 60% number is probably on the low end of debt we owe ourselves.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/28/debt-is-mostly-money-we-owe-to-ourselves/

The total amount makes no difference... the number will always rise... it's the % of GDP that matters.......

 

[spyder3]

Maybe this article and charts can explain things better than I can. Hopefully this can clear it up for you.....actually my 60% number is probably on the low end of debt we owe ourselves.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/28/debt-is-mostly-money-we-owe-to-ourselves/

The total amount makes no difference... the number will always rise... it's the % of GDP that matters.......

"The Conscience of a Liberal" :roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:

"That’s not to say that high debt can’t cause problems — it certainly can"

When even a left wing hack like klugman actually throws in a sentence that high debt can cause problems you KNOW there is a problem. If this guy and the NY times is your info source, we better stop now.

China is buying our debt, thats not paper, thats debt! We owe it back!

Klugman(and you) are the only people on the planet that think our debt is ok. Take a look at greece, we could be them in 4 years or less.

We should probably end here, as this will go political shortly. We just don't live on the same planet.:banghead:

 

[ARtraveler]

Very interisting points and counterpoints with a lot of valuable information. opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:

 

[boborgera]

I look at it a different way, The more we owe China the less inclined they'll be to start a war with us.
It.s like lending your Brother in law money, You have to be nice to him if you have any hopes of getting your money back;:roflblack::roflblack:

 

[MarkLawson]

...The total amount makes no difference... the number will always rise... it's the % of GDP that matters.......

Do you run your own household budget on that philosophy?

The higher our debt, the more of our taxes goes to pay the interest on it.

At $15 trillion of debt, if you added nothing more to it, not even interest, paying at a rate of $100,000,000 (one hundred million dollars) every day against that debt, it will take 410 years, 11.5 months to pay it off.

We simply cannot continue adding to our debt.

 

[SpyderGirl]

Well, when I got on here to look up information on putting a gas door on the RT, I didn't think I would find this thread. There was a lot said and I am sure I cannot address everything, but I am going try. But before I do, let me say that I am in love with my Chevrolet Volt and do not regret making the purchase.

The only people who buy Electric / Hybrid cars Are people who can afford the high price of gas'.
Think about it, With the extra cost of those cars you can buy years worth of gas for the average car.

FALSE. I bought the Volt because I was finding myself paying $50 per week in gas in my fairly fuel efficient Chevrolet HHR. I now spend about $50 a month in gas in my Chevrolet Volt.

I read that GM was just going to halt production until April 23rd to allow dealerships to sell existing inventory. There not moving to quick because of the high price. $41K !! :yikes:

High price??? Compare this to other cars that get similar results and you will find that it is priced about the same, or less. The plug-in hybrid Prius only goes 11 miles on electric only and it's fuel economy is only marginally better than the standard Prius. Price tag of this option is not much less than the Volt which can go 30-40 miles on electric only. Also, compare the Volt to the 2013 Ford Focus electric to be released with the same price tag.

As for being a failure... I'll let Spydergirl address that. She posted a odometer photo on Facebook last week showing she was getting around 250 mpg in her Volt. That sounds like pretty darned good incentive to buy one to me. The whole hold back is the out the door price. I would agree though that given the tax payer bailout of these companies, they should repay the American people by making their vehicles actually cost less... Regardless of technological sophistication...

We have been driving 65/45 (electric/gas) and have been averaging just shy of 90MG over the life of the car. In addition to saving in the cost of fuel, you save in the cost of maintenance as the Volt does have a gasoline motor that powers the generator. Translation: only 45% of the miles we currently have on the car were using the gas motor which means far less maintenance to the gas motor (oil and filter changes). Additionally, the Chevrolet Volt does not have a transmission. So no maintenance is required there. I also learned yesterday that the Volt has the Spyder equivalent of VSS with it's independent regenerative braking system.

Want more incentives to purchase a car like the Volt or the Leaf?? If you live in California especially, there are TONS of them. In my area the company SPX offers to homeowners one free residential ChargePoint 240v charging station that allows the car to charge in just a mere 4 hours allowing the car to be charged completely during off-peak hours (midnight to 9AM for those who work typical hours during the day). In addition, SPX has up to $1,200 in an instant installation charger rebate. We are getting our unit installed at no cost to us.

Plugging the car into the power grid to recharge still uses fossil fuels--just not in the car.

Who is paying for the electricity when they are plugging in away from home? I would not be to happy if I looked out and saw an extension cord from someones car plugged into my power outlet.

The Volt doesn't really charge very well using an extension cord, not to mention it's highly dangerous to do so. Anyone with a brain would know better.

I, for one, am into the technology of this vehicle, but agree that there are some practical considerations that pose major drawbacks for this design. First, you have got to get the power from somewhere, interested to know how much a person's electric bill goes up when you charge this thing every night. Second, how long will the battery last, and what are the implications of 10s or thousands of junked batteries in junk yards? I own a Tahoe hybrid, and get s--t from my friends all the time for being an idiot for paying more for the hybrid. I have 57,000 trouble free miles and based on my calculations when compared to a similarly powered Tahoe, I have about a 25% improvement in fuel efficiency, that has made up the price difference, but certainly isn't any huge benefit. I would prefer a hybrid to the all electrics myself, the volt is somewhere in between with a small gas powered engine that can generate electricity. If I were in the market right now for that sized vehicle, I would go with a Prius, or a diesel.

First of all, the Prius and yoru Tahoe hybrid has a battery in case you didn't know. Second of all, the Chevrolet Volt comes with an 8 year / 80,000 mile warranty that covers the replacement of the Volt's battery. The Volt isn't all electric, it's a plug-in electric hybrid. And did I mention it looks way cooler than a Prius or a Leaf.

A full charge of the Volt costs anywhere from .75 to 1.75 from what I've read... with most saying they pay far less than $1.00 a day to top it off. I'm sure they have a recycling program for the batteries. One of the new hybrids has a 10 year guarantee on the batteries... they'll replace them as many times as you need them to should they degrade.

We are spending far less on our electric bill with our Volt as compared to when my mother-in-law was living with us. It costs us about 6 cents a mile in electricity. It's cheaper than heating our hot tub.

That's a lot of green for the priviledge of going green... :shocked: :gaah:

That's why they have tons of differnent kinds of vehicles. Not everyone can afford, or wants to afford the same car. And not everyone wants to drive what everyone else has. I dare to be different, and like I said, I love my Volt and just as I get hate from my Harley neighbor about my "training wheels", I just call it ENVY.