Changes to OEM Rear Tire Construction

[KX5062]

The original post was providing information that BRP had changed their compound (and part number) of their OEM rear tire. Many on the forum want to use the OEM tire, thus such information should be of benefit to them. Especially since so many have been wearing out the 2013/2014 rear tires in short periods compared to the previous ones.

I had posted previously that the 2013/2014 tires were of a softer compound and that was one of the reasons why they were going bald so quickly, but many did not want to believe that. I came across new information that was consistent with the softer compound of the 2013/2014 tires, so it was shared.

I for one ONLY use automotive rear tires. And I agree, even if BRP went back to their 2012 compound, I will continue to use an automotive tire on the rear because I believe it to be of higher quality and it wears longer and wears more even. So far I have burned through three different types, 2 of the Kumho, 2 of the Maxxis, 2 of the Toyo, all in the 225/50-15 OEM size.

To that point, we have traditionally believed it was the weak and cheap OEM tire ballooning out at high speeds due to centrifugal force that was the cause of the center wear. Some also believe high air pressure to also contribute to the center section wear. I am of the opinion one should never exceed the 28 psi suggestion, and I believe running lower is going to wear the rear tire better. Even with the OEM Kenda I would suggest going no more than 25-26. I run 25 right now on both of my units with auto tires. That said, the center section still wears faster than the outer edges. Not as fast as the OEM tires, but it could still be better.

So maybe there is more to this than just tire construction and air pressure. It has been suggested the rear rim is too narrow for the 225/50-15 tire profile, and that the 215/60-15 or 205/60-15 widths are going to wear the center even better because the narrower tire will fit the narrow rim better. The theory is the narrow rim pulls the 225/50-15 tire in to the rim, leading to bowing out the center section out on the 225 tires, also contributing to the accelerated center section wear.

I am not proclaiming to know this to be fact, I am just throwing it out there for you to consider. There might be good logic in using a narrower auto tire simply from the fit and even wear on the OEM rim, not just cost and durability and more miles.

Which of the automotive tires did you like the best, since you have good real world experience?

Also, you have an interesting theory about the rim size. That would be very easy to confirm. Measuring the rim will tell the tale. There is a set formula as to rim size and tire width. You could be onto something. :thumbup:

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

RIM WIDTHS

Which of the automotive tires did you like the best, since you have good real world experience?......My 205 / 60-15 on the RSS was a GEneral Altimax and that was on the RSS at 2014 Spyderfest when I won 1 st place in stock class at the DRAGS......I had NO PROBLEM ....Lighting it up at the line .....It actually spun a bit too easy....so I had to modify my launch a bit........PS the RSS is an SE

Also, you have an interesting theory about the rim size. That would be very easy to confirm. Measuring the rim will tell the tale. There is a set formula as to rim size and tire width. You could be onto something. :thumbup:

.......:dontknow:..Not my theory my bst friend ( master wrencher and x-drag racer ) is the one I consulted............&..........THE TIRE RACK supplies some very good info on tire width to rim width recommendations ...............Right now I am running a TOYO PROXIS T1R 185 / 55 - 15 on the front of my 2014 RT. This is the largest tire that will fit in the old style fenders ....believe me ......and ,They stick like glue........I took a chance on them because TIRE RACK took the sidewall measurement on this size tire using a 6 inch rim.........ours is a 5 inch (?) rim .....sooooooooo it actually made the sidewall measurement smaller which turned out to be a GOOD thing because it was REALLY CLOSE ..............Mikeguyver :thumbup:

 

[sledmaster]

:shocked:...:agree:.......Sledmaster , I also dumped Kenda a long time ago.....The narrow rim thing is something I have also thought about. When I switched out my rear tire on my 2011 RSS I tried a 205/60-15 and that tire had absolutely even wear across the width of rear tire which I found interesting.....I have purchased a Michelin Hydro as a re-placement for my rear tire on my new 2014 RT and this is a 215/60-15.....from I have read here most users have gotten very good wear numbers .........But is BRP doing any WARRANTIES on the BAD rear tires that you know of ........Mikeguyver :thumbup::thumbup:

I am not aware of any specific cases of rear tires being covered under warranty simply due to their short life span. A softer compound would not constitute a defect. I did hear talk of a bad batch of tires, but assumed that to be some of the 15" front tires.

I burned through the OE rear tire on my 2013 in 2,500 miles, left it on to 3,750 out of spite. Never had one go so quickly. That's when I started asking questions and was told the 2013/2014 compound was indeed softer for performance and traction. Uh huh. They told me it was my high average speed that was the main contributing factor. I told them ***** was going to hit the fan once people figured put they were going to need a new rear tire at every oil change. And now we hear they are going back to a longer lasting compound, whew.

The fact that you experienced such even wear on a 205 tells me we might be onto something here. The Spyder has a 7" wheel or rim width, and from what I can tell the auto 225/50-15 tires do specify a 7" rim width, but those doing the installs will tell you it seems to be narrow. It does make sense that a tight fit in this manner would bow out the center section more.

I am always curious as to any noticeable loss of traction with a higher-wear tire. I felt the Kumho was a step backwards from the Kenda for traction, especially as it wore. I could always get those to break loose far easier. The Maxxis was an OK tire, good for traction but didn't wear all that much better. The Toyo seems to be the best for traction from what I have seen so far. These were all in the OE 225/50-15 size. Once I burn through my stock of Toyo rears I will be trying a narrower profile.

Back to the front, I am going to try a set of Kumho Solus KH 16 on my 2013. They are 155/60-15 which should be +0.8% diameter and 10mm narrower, on paper, but when you measure them up the tread width looks almost identical to the OEM 15" kendas (165/55-15) that are so terribly cupped. They go on tomorrow so I will let you know how they work. So few tires available as subs for the 15" fronts, this one was AA traction and A temperature, but only 118 mph speed rated. Not the greatest, but worth a try.

 

[sddinnh]

I have noticed a slight tendency on the 215/60/15 Hydroedge to break loose easier if the traction on the road surface is marginal (ie sand on the road) and I'm really trying to break it loose. I've had zero problems under normal operation or in the wet even on tight and twisty roads. Even when pushed "hard" the traction seems good to me and I've seen no tendency for the back end to come loose. Just what I'm seeing, your results may vary. Keep me informed on the fronts. I feel they are way too soft in the sidewall and though I have no problems with their traction, I do have issues with their handling. In fact I've gone to 25 psi to try to mitigate that and that helps some.

 

[KX5062]

I am not aware of any specific cases of rear tires being covered under warranty simply due to their short life span. A softer compound would not constitute a defect. I did hear talk of a bad batch of tires, but assumed that to be some of the 15" front tires.

I burned through the OE rear tire on my 2013 in 2,500 miles, left it on to 3,750 out of spite. Never had one go so quickly. That's when I started asking questions and was told the 2013/2014 compound was indeed softer for performance and traction. Uh huh. They told me it was my high average speed that was the main contributing factor. I told them ***** was going to hit the fan once people figured put they were going to need a new rear tire at every oil change. And now we hear they are going back to a longer lasting compound, whew.

The fact that you experienced such even wear on a 205 tells me we might be onto something here. The Spyder has a 7" wheel or rim width, and from what I can tell the auto 225/50-15 tires do specify a 7" rim width, but those doing the installs will tell you it seems to be narrow. It does make sense that a tight fit in this manner would bow out the center section more.

I am always curious as to any noticeable loss of traction with a higher-wear tire. I felt the Kumho was a step backwards from the Kenda for traction, especially as it wore. I could always get those to break loose far easier. The Maxxis was an OK tire, good for traction but didn't wear all that much better. The Toyo seems to be the best for traction from what I have seen so far. These were all in the OE 225/50-15 size. Once I burn through my stock of Toyo rears I will be trying a narrower profile.

Back to the front, I am going to try a set of Kumho Solus KH 16 on my 2013. They are 155/60-15 which should be +0.8% diameter and 10mm narrower, on paper, but when you measure them up the tread width looks almost identical to the OEM 15" kendas (165/55-15) that are so terribly cupped. They go on tomorrow so I will let you know how they work. So few tires available as subs for the 15" fronts, this one was AA traction and A temperature, but only 118 mph speed rated. Not the greatest, but worth a try.

Thanks for answering my questions. The figure of a 7" rim, is that what the book says, or is it a real world measurement? Also, when you pull the front tires, can you measure the rim there also? It would nice to add to the knowledge base. Also, keeps us posted on your observations with the new fronts.

 

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

i must be lucky with 4k on my kenda's they still look very very good. i think i will get about 9k or 10k out them before i need to replace them & will probably stay with the factory kenda

 

[sledmaster]

Thanks for answering my questions. The figure of a 7" rim, is that what the book says, or is it a real world measurement? Also, when you pull the front tires, can you measure the rim there also? It would nice to add to the knowledge base. Also, keeps us posted on your observations with the new fronts.

7" rim is what the book says, I am sure we can get a measurement on that.

I find it encouraging that those who have used the narrower profile tires are reporting less center section wear. Maybe no silver bullet here, but if we keep pressures down, go with a better carcass tire that will hold its shape better, and go with a slightly narrower profile to reduce the rim effect then maybe we have a workable solution. Let's keep gathering data on this.

With all of the different tire wear reports, we should remember all of the factors that go into how long a rear tire lasts. How the user accelerates and brakes, the road surface, the average speed, the tire construction, load on the vehicle, preload settings, air pressure, temperature, many factors. How else could we see such variations in how long the exact same tire lasts?

 

[sddinnh]

Here's my 215/60/15 Hydroedge at 4000 miles and as you can see the wear is pretty even across the tire with 28 psi

 

[billrob71]

As much as I like to spin the rear tire can we just do a retread while it's on the bike


Thanks for the update any improvement is a plus THANKS BRP for listening to us

 

[dshack7]

2014 Spyder RT What Michelin did you switch to?

I'm glad that they reacted, but I've already switched to Michelin. Now if we could them to talk about a stiffer sidewall on the fronts :chat:

What Michelin tire did you switch to? I could not find the 225 50 r15 in a Michelin.

Thanks!

Dshack7

 

[AbNormy]

When I replaced my Hydroedge after about 20k miles I couldn't find another so I got a Defender I'm pretty happy with

 

[Orange Spyder Man]

I won't ever buy another Kenda... won't put a 2 ply tire on my Spyder... 2 ply tires are for lawn mowers & wheel barrows.. surely not a vehicle that runs down the highway at 60 + MPH...

osm

 

[finless]

When I replaced my Hydroedge after about 20k miles I couldn't find another so I got a Defender I'm pretty happy with

I really thing the Defender is not a good rear tire because the tread is one sided and made for a car.

You can clearly see in the picture the centerline of the tread is off to one side.

 

[lookerjdc]

well good for them (finally)

I only got around 6000 miles out of the rear tire on my 2014 RT before I had to replace it, and I put a Kuhmo on mine also

 

[ARtraveler]

Prior to buying my 2014, I had received 13K - 15K mileage on the OEM rear tires. The 2011 now has 16,500K, but will be replaced when I take it in for beginning of the season servicing.

Last summer, I had to replace the rear tire on my 2014 RT at about 8,900 miles. This was the lowest rear tire mileage I have experienced so far. Compared to a lot of reports, I did better than an lot of owners who replaced tires between 4.5K and 6K miles.

When I replaced my rear tire, I was told the part number had been changed and that the new tire I received was the "old" version of the tire. I reported on this at the time. Did I get a "real" old version of the tire? I will find out this summer. :thumbup: