CB Trouble AGAIN -- VENT and Dealer BLACK EYE

[Spyder_Cowgirl]

OK -- Latest UPDATE

First I will answer questions from the last post -- thank you Steve, for the information:

Sounds like pulling fuses would have isolated any USB devices, but if wired directly to the battery it'll have it's own fuse inline.

These are "plug and play" devices from Spyderpops, so they have power bridges that plug in between the turn signals and the Spyder.

I am curious about what you mean when you say "noise gets worse with movement" (I may have missed it!). The noise changes pitch or gets louder when you drive?

Not so much louder or change in pitch, it just overrides any reception and there is a great amount of "cut out" when receiving.

If I remember you have noise with the key ON and the red switch (engine kill) OFF. I'm trying to think what systems are powered in that condition - fuel pump? Since it started after the air pump was replaced, what do they have to take off to get to it? What gets unplugged that may not be plugged back in well?

Correct on the noise with the kill OFF -- tried that and there was no change. As for what was taken off for the air pump ... the entire rear cargo module (and anything plugged into it from the main harness). We have inspected all the plugs we can reach ... even unplugged, checked for bent pins, and plugged back together. No change.

Seems like the ground should be OK since you checked it. You shouldn't have a ground loop since the shield for the antenna is inside the base of the antenna and it not grounded at the antenna itself. The shield in the cable is grounded down near the CB somewhere, or at the CB unit itself when plugged in. I don't have a CB, so cannot check.

On recommendations from a local CB repair guy -- we checked the cable and ground by continuity from the center post to the threads on the brass block and also from the outside of the cable to the ground strap connection next to the antenna itself (inside the left speaker pod). So, I am certain we now have a good ground for the antenna.

If you grab the CB unit, does the noise change? That might suggest the CB itself is not grounded well.

Makes no difference in the noise if the CB is touched. It makes a HUGE difference if the antenna is touched .... see below for what we have found this indicates.

And last for today - can you unplug the antenna from the CB and test?
Being an electrical engineer your problem has me really curious! Hoping to hear something positive soon!

We have unplugged the antenna and tested what we could on the antenna itself -- CB repair indicated that we should have continuity from tip to tail (we don't -- again, see below). Well ... I think the following is a HUGE positive. I am now in direct contact with the regional technical guy and he has asked for a few things. We had an extended discussion and I am confident he will see this through to a final positive outcome.:clap::clap:

OK ... so here is the update.

Since we did not get good readings when checking continuity of the antenna itself, I went down to the local truck stop and picked up a cheap (but tunable) antenna. It has the same threads as the J&M and we decided to see if we could tune it. Well ... results are better ... but still not good as our reading on the SWR meter is still well over 2 and not very adjustable. So, I called J&M and reported these results .... they are convinced that the J&M antenna is damaged (probably a cracked fiberglass staff) and needs to be replaced. They also indicated that if something in the entertainment harness was pinched in such a way to create a current loop, transmit would not work. In addition, they also believe we still have a grounding issue (like a pinched wire somewhere) and that we need to solve that before proceeding with tuning the "cheap" antenna. Once we have all of it solved and tuned the best we can ... they will do an antenna exchange under warranty so we can have the good quality J&M back on the spyder.

As for my conversation with BRP technical -- seems like C&S Fun Center is pretty well done with this spyder and I, for one, am glad for that. :yes:Since I had all the Tupperware off the Spyder, the tech asked that I perform a resistance test on the radio grounds (I believe this will eliminate the main harness as the source of the problem). He described the radio plug and what pins to check (three black wires in three consecutive pins). Easy to spot and fairly easy to test .... looking for Ohms with a handheld multi-meter. He said don't be surprised if there is a small amount of resistance ... what he was looking for was a difference. With the meter set to 20K ... 0.002 ohms read on each of the wires.

One thing he did say was that a CB without an antenna is very bad for the CB and can render it inoperable. We, effectively, were operating without an antenna since we know the J&M is toast. So, now I am wondering if we are actually fighting two problems -- a ground issue (something draining to ground that shouldn't) and a "blown" CB. Either one could cause problems with the ability to tune the antenna and I will voice this concern when I discuss results of our testing.

Bottom line, it looks like we will (finally) be able to take the Spyder to another dealer to have this resolved. Before we select either one 30 miles or one 65 miles away, I will find out if they have an SWR meter "in house" or are willing to get one ... so THEY can check the tune on the antenna themselves and make sure there are no ground issues before returning the spyder to us. These meters are cheap (less than $20), it just boggles the mind that C&S Fun Center doesn't have and, apparently, won't go out and get one.

As always, thank you for the suggestions .... will keep this updated as we move forward .... Ann

 

[Peter Aawen]

FINALLY!! :clap:

I hope I'm not celebrating for you too early, but it does sound like there might be some 'light at the end of the tunnel' with a Tech somewhere interested in solving your CB issues!! :2thumbs: hyea:

 

[2bears]

My dilemma may be starting:

I just had dealer install a cb on my 2016 RT. Can't use it. They say headset is on backorder and will be 3 months to get one. I asked the technician question on the display wich one was the squelch and he replied, "what's a squelch". :banghead: Dealer tells me they will not be installing any more cb's, they say they have been discontinued on the 2018 models.

Does the headset have to be connected to receive? They didn't know and neither do I. Sure can't trust them to have checked the antenna swr either with an answer like that.

Spyder_cowgirl, one thing nobody has covered is the flux index has been high and the hf bands have been crazy, in laymens terms the static has been bad because of the sunspot activity, yep I know, now you have herd 1001 causes for your static. An SWR of greater 3 to 1 will smoke the final transistors in a cb. Anything over 1.3 to 1 you loose efficiency.

Does anybody know who manufactures the cb's that Can Am uses?

Chuck

 

[Easy Rider]

Does the headset have to be connected to receive?

Does anybody know who manufactures the cb's that Can Am uses?

I don't know if the headset has to be connected or not; I haven't had a chance to try that yet......because the first headset I got from BRP went bad.

J&M makes/sells both the radios and the headsets. I bet you could get one from them in about 3 days.

 

[JIM EVANS]

i installed my cb and it works fine.. 2104 rtl i did add an additional ground to the antenna ran from the antenna nut down to the frame.. and i also grounded the cb off the chasis of the cb to the frame.. other than taking a while to dial in the correct settings ... has been trouble and noise free

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Does anybody know who manufactures the cb's that Can Am uses?

Chuck[/QUOTE
Radio Sound. They make radios for many makes of m/c's, including Honda, Indian, and HD.

 

[Spyder_Cowgirl]

Plugged In

I just had dealer install a cb on my 2016 RT. Can't use it. They say headset is on backorder and will be 3 months to get one. I asked the technician question on the display wich one was the squelch and he replied, "what's a squelch". :banghead: Dealer tells me they will not be installing any more cb's, they say they have been discontinued on the 2018 models.

Does the headset have to be connected to receive? They didn't know and neither do I. Sure can't trust them to have checked the antenna swr either with an answer like that.

Spyder_cowgirl, one thing nobody has covered is the flux index has been high and the hf bands have been crazy, in laymens terms the static has been bad because of the sunspot activity, yep I know, now you have herd 1001 causes for your static. An SWR of greater 3 to 1 will smoke the final transistors in a cb. Anything over 1.3 to 1 you loose efficiency.

Does anybody know who manufactures the cb's that Can Am uses?

Chuck

Yes, the CB output only goes through the headset ... can't redirect to the speakers (since it doubles as an intercom, I can sort of see this). As another post said ... go to the J&M site and get one of their headsets ... you just need a "lower cord" with the seven pin connector (and I know J&M has them because hubby has a spare lower cord for his J&M headsets).

I am aware of the many causes of static .... have learned much with all these issues. Now, here is the curious part .... at the moment, the CB is "working" (it suddenly cleared up in the middle of a ride ... just as it suddenly went away). But, even though it is working .... we still can't tune the antenna (J&M says we must still have a ground issue). So, BRP is going to replace the entertainment harness ... thinking that something in it got "compromised" when the compressor was replaced (I am inclined to agree). We are currently waiting on parts .... I know they will need the bike for a day as this is NOT a short replacement (back end must be removed ... the whole "luggage" module; only six bolts, but you need to have a rack of some kind to slide it onto or it will get damaged).

And, yes, the CB is manufactured by RadioSound (as another post has already stated).

As always, thank you for the ideas ... hope you can get a J&M headset that will work for you .... Ann

 

[RinconRyder]

Anyway, the noise that I complained about is still there (though I have not determined if it still overrides the ability of the CB to receive without static). Here is the "noise" I am talking about:

• Turn key on, DO NOT start the Spyder
• Go to the CB settings and run the squelch so that NO BARS are showing and it is in a constant RX condition.
• Listen in the headset; a constant purring / rhythmic static that WAS NOT there prior to the compressor replacement

Quit screwing around with motorcycle people (BRP) and go find a mom & pop radio repair shop (two way radios). Ask the old guy to listen to your radio. He will probably be able to tell what the problem is and will certainly be able to test it.

 

[jprobins1578]

Entertainment harness quality control

We recently purchased a new '16 RT-S Special. We ride with a group that rely heavily on CB communications so we asked the dealer to install the CB/Communications kit. After finally getting all the right parts delivered (with my help and the BRP rep's), their first installation attempt found that the Entertainment harness had a defective connector and that two pins were shorting out. The dealer ordered two more to be shipped overnight (one from another dealer & one from BRP supply chain). Both arrived with defective connectors from the manufacturer. They tried again from Canada and finally got one with complete connectors. They installed it and claimed to have tested it with the BRP headsets. They then delivered it to us (120 miles distant). We tested it and found a lot of static and no Rx. We decided to deal with it later. On a 850 mile ride that weekend, one of the members in our group commented on how wobbly the CB mast was. When we stopped at the next rest stop and tightened the mast using the BRP tool kit, all our Tx/Rx problems went away and it is working very well. HOWEVER, the BRP engineers never bother to try to connect the PTT cable they sell for the passenger headset connector because the 90 degree connector on both the PTT cable and the break away cable to the bike interfer with the passenger LH grip. I'm going to have to take the connector panel off and file new notches so the connector can be rotated 90 degrees clockwise to allow the PTT cable to connect. I had to explain to the dealer service desk what a PTT was used for on a CB. IMHO BRP needs to spend some training time with their dealers on communications options, installations and testing.

Ann, your tenacity in solving this problem is amazing. Well done!

 

[Spyder_Cowgirl]

Update -- Still Working Way Through CB Problems

Thought I would provide a brief update ... since I last posted, I have been able to dump the dealer that did all the damage and was able to pick a new dealer -- had two to choose from and picked the one that had the more experienced mechanic (the other was a new Spyder dealer, so tech not up to speed yet). Anyway, here is what has taken place:

• BRP replaced the entertainment harness -- thinking it may have been damaged when the compressor was replaced (no help).
• I had J&M warrantee the antenna and they confirmed that it was badly damaged, likely with a cracked staff ... so I was basically running the CB without an antenna until I purchased a cheap tunable one at the local truck stop (this made some difference, at least my reception is not complete static all the time ... once in a while, I can actually understand about 80% of what is said in among the static.
• Then the radio started acting up, where I would lose my tunes or get "locked out" with nothing but static in my headphones. Could not shut the static off without powering down the bike and letting it all reboot (very annoying). So, BRP replaced the radio .... and I am now convinced the loose ground strap belonged to the radio and probably toasted it. While I no longer lose my tunes or get locked out, the reception has not improved from when the antenna was replaced.
• So, now I am waiting on yet another CB (dealer has ordered it) -- this will be the fifth one, BTW. The BRP lead area tech agrees that the loose ground was probably the radio, and that the antenna was damaged when the compressor was replaced. So, that means that the fourth CB was essentially run without an antenna and was probably fried within minutes of use. During this CB replacement, BRP is going to ask the dealer to inspect the compressor install, the heated grips harness repair, the grounding harness (there are something like 6 to 8 ground points that all lead back to the battery), and will also authorize install of a ground strap from the CB itself to the motorcycle frame (I already have the strap). I am really hoping this works .... if it doesn't, BRP has already said they will have to replace the main harness.:yikes:

On a more positive note, I did put 170 miles on an F3 Limited during the last repair (radio replacement) and that was fun. Still can't convince hubby that a third motorcycle is worth it, though.

Will let you know more ... when I know more ..... Ann

 

[Tango]

DAMN! Ann, can't believe all the trouble you are going through. And you haven't gone "Postal", yet. LOL Hang in there. Hopefully, it sounds like you made it to a good dealer. ray: Tom :spyder:

 

[Spyder_Cowgirl]

Postal

DAMN! Ann, can't believe all the trouble you are going through. And you haven't gone "Postal", yet. LOL Hang in there. Hopefully, it sounds like you made it to a good dealer. ray: Tom :spyder:

Not yet, Tom .... though if I had to stick with the other dealer, I am sure I would have by now! I really didn't want to take it back to them for the 4th CB replacement .... but, I was not yet in contact with the regional rep from BRP. Once he got involved, it became pretty clear to both of us that I no longer trusted the old dealer and they wanted to wash their hands of the bike as well (so, they were done with me). I am usually pretty easy to get along with ... but I draw the line at being nice when accused of damaging my own Spyder by unhooking a ground strap (good thing it was on the phone, or I would probably have been in jail ).

CB arrived at the dealer yesterday and I am scheduled to take it in on the 26th .. have a Vietnam Replica Wall escort on the 25th and they could not guarantee getting it back to me if I took it in sooner. Oh, and now I am facing shoulder surgery .... so they will have to work around that too (as in get it done before the surgery) -- I will start another thread on that.

All the best .... Ann

 

[Tango]

Good luck with the surgery Ann. Hopefully all goes well. The bike? Keeping my fingers crossed for you. :thumbup: Tom :spyder:

 

[Spyder_Cowgirl]

Cautious Optimism

UPDATE: The CB is ..... WORKING!:clap: We now have about 400 miles since the latest replacement (number 5, by my count); both transmit and receive are nearly flawless. Did have a slight scare about 200 miles in when severe static started to show up ... at a jacket change stop midway through our ride, I put my gloved hand on the antenna and gave it a firm twist to tighten. Did not feel any movement, but there must have been some as the static went away and has stayed away. So, this will now become part of my pre ride checks.

Even better ... no shoulder surgery, so I am not going to lose out on any riding this season.:doorag:

Will probably call BRP in the next day or so with the good news ... hopefully, this lasts.

All the best .... Ann

 

[Easy Rider]

Did have a slight scare about 200 miles in when severe static started to show up ... at a jacket change stop midway through our ride, I put my gloved hand on the antenna and gave it a firm twist to tighten. Did not feel any movement, but there must have been some as the static went away and has stayed away.

No offense intended here but...............

You do know that some bouts of "static" are from external sources ....right ??
Some power lines running down the highway are REALLY bad.
And some things running in businesses are bad too.....like air compressors and big fluorescent lights.

That kind of static comes and goes on it's own.

 

[Spyder_Cowgirl]

External Source

No offense intended here but...............

You do know that some bouts of "static" are from external sources ....right ??
Some power lines running down the highway are REALLY bad.
And some things running in businesses are bad too.....like air compressors and big fluorescent lights.

That kind of static comes and goes on it's own.

No offense taken .... we were out in open country and the static did subside when we slowed down or stopped; then picked up again with movement and got worse the faster we went (seemed to indicate a possible problem with a "loose" antenna).

All the best .... Ann

 

[Bruiser37]

Well @#$%^&*()_ .... the CB has GONE SOUTH AGAIN! Recall that this is the THIRD CB installed in this unit (one at purchase and two as warranty claims). On the last warranty, BRP replaced the following:

CB
Radio
Entertainment harness (all of it, front and back components)
Installed the J&M Antenna that I had already purchased (they still owe me for that; were supposed to reimburse).

All this was done with the agreement that I disconnect ALL the LEDs (mirror, HMT, and rear run / brake / turn -- I agreed and left instructions with the tech on how to properly disconnect them (pull the power bridges) -- he did this on the mirror LEDs, but not on the rear (so the HMT was still working when we picked the bike up and I pointed this out).

Now, I think we need some background on what this dealer has "done" (rather damaged on this bike) -- then you will understand why I am so ANGRY and need to VENT (I will name the dealer at the end of this post):

• First the glove box lid was scratched when the GPS was upgraded (at my request) to a Zumo 590 -- replaced under warranty
• Then the left handle bar control module went south (PTT wasn't working well, turn signal sticking) -- replaced under warranty.
• It was somewhere in this timeframe that the third CB was also installed and all but one of the LEDs unhooked (although, not properly). CB worked better than it EVER had BUT upon returning home could not open the seat to gas up. Back to the dealer, and they called about an hour later to say the latch was bent (replaced with one off the floor). Pick up bike the following morning, can't open the seat .... ummm, well, yes you can but you have to turn the key the WRONG way and I could no longer lock the steering.
• Okay, so a new key switch is ordered and I "live" with the swapped cables for a week or so (as well as not being able to lock the handle bars). Key switch and new keys (under warranty) and we are good to go.
• Realize, shortly after, that my ACS is not functioning (heated grips and horn are also toast... same fuse) -- blown compressor. Waited nearly two weeks for parts and replacement; only to be told that the fuse still blew after the compressor was replaced. Pinched wire in the heated grip circuit. Hmmm ... when did THAT happen? Oh ... that's right, the key switch was replaced (probably then).

So, now we come to the current dilemma .... CB can transmit, but cannot receive without EXTREME static. Unfortunately, I did not realize this was an issue until starting (slowly) to hook SOME of the LEDs back up. They are now ALL unplugged and still, I am saying to myself, this is a grounding issue. So this past weekend, we took ALL the Tupperware off the bike from the mirrors back and gained access to the "battery cover" under the seat. See photo below .... does that look like a properly installed ground to you? Not to me ... but, even with it hooked back up ... the CB is STILL almost pure static on receive (transmit is clear). Note that the entire rear cargo module must be removed in order to replace the compressor and, with the loose ground, I am wondering what else was not reinstalled properly (another pinched wire, but this time in the entertainment harness, perhaps?).

Here is what has me REALLY ANGRY! I took the photo below and sent it to the dealer that replaced the compressor -- first response; you hooked the LEDs back up, it's your fault. Then today he accused me of unhooking the ground ... WTF .. .are you serious!? I rather NOT calmly asked that he submit another claim to BRP and send the photo -- I am not sure he will and even if he does, I am sure he will pass along the lie that I unhooked the ground.

So ... here's the photo .....View attachment 152442

I am beyond ANGRY, I am LIVID -- even if BRP approves yet another warranty claim on the CB (diagnosis, whatever); I am not sure I want C&S Fun Center in Henrietta Texas to touch this bike EVER again! My husband thinks I have an electrical lemon ... he may have a point.

Needed to vent and rant a bit ... do I feel better now? ... no, not really. The dealer that installed my tire cannot help (much) because they did not do the initial warranty repair. He did suggest I contact BRP directly ... though I know from posts here that they will just refer me back to the dealer. His other suggestion was BRPCare .... I think I will do that following this post (so be forewarned BRPCare, incoming ... I will try to be professional and simply state facts in my note to you, without emotion .... I feel I can vent here, not in any correspondence with you).

All the best ... thanks for listening ... constructive suggestions appreciated .... Ann

First mistake CB is expensive out dated comm system in todays world of moto. Helmet comm systems are only way to go... I know it's a new paradigm but get with it. European riders have used it for years and it has finally come of age with powerful new bluetooth 5.X the new standard. Latest BT 4.X Cardo & Sena helmet comm has paved the way and it will be USA de facto comm system in couple years. I'm sure your regular riding buddies wouldn't mind the switch for less than $400. With it comes the perfect Helmet intercom for pillion and lots more features like music, cell phones, GPS voice commands etc.

Since you seem to have documented all the issues along the wayI suggest next step is to take advantage of the lemon laws asap. I purchased a new 2012 BMW KT 1600 GTL that spent too more time in dealership shop rather than my garage and riding it. At 2,500 miles and end of 2012 year models BMW replaced it with a free brand new 2013 KT 1600 GTL... new moto was BMW quality all the way. This is the way it should be and reason for strong lemon laws.

 

[Spyder_Cowgirl]

First mistake CB is expensive out dated comm system in todays world of moto. Helmet comm systems are only way to go... I know it's a new paradigm but get with it. European riders have used it for years and it has finally come of age with powerful new bluetooth 5.X the new standard. Latest BT 4.X Cardo & Sena helmet comm has paved the way and it will be USA de facto comm system in couple years. I'm sure your regular riding buddies wouldn't mind the switch for less than $400. With it comes the perfect Helmet intercom for pillion and lots more features like music, cell phones, GPS voice commands etc.

Since you seem to have documented all the issues along the wayI suggest next step is to take advantage of the lemon laws asap. I purchased a new 2012 BMW KT 1600 GTL that spent too more time in dealership shop rather than my garage and riding it. At 2,500 miles and end of 2012 year models BMW replaced it with a free brand new 2013 KT 1600 GTL... new moto was BMW quality all the way. This is the way it should be and reason for strong lemon laws.

So what if CB is old technology … the group I ride with uses it extensively and trying to get more than just a few on the "same page" for communication technology is no easy task. This post was not meant to be a debate over the merits of the CB vs. newer technology … just to report that horror of working with a particular dealer and how they continually damaged the Spyder.

Lemon laws do not apply to "accessories" in the state of Texas; only to the main / required vehicle components. The CB is an optional accessory and not a required part of the machine. Plus, the bike itself is golden … just the CB (and my prior dealer) has been a nightmare.

BTW … complaining to BRP and taking advantage of surveys, when they are sent … matters. The dealer referenced in the original post has lost their Platinum Certification (and I would like to think I played a small part in that).

Thank you for your response ….. all the best …. Ann

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

First mistake CB is expensive out dated comm system in todays world of moto. Helmet comm systems are only way to go...

Ahhhhhh, newer is always better, right? Well let's see. Say you are in a group ride of 5 riders. Small group, right? You're all traveling down the road at 60 mph. That's 88 feet per second. With 5 riders you have 4 spaces between the bikes. Keeping the recommended minimum distance of 2 seconds between riders that means there is 2 x 88 x 4, or 704 feet from the leader to the tail gunner. Now, they do need to keep in communication for safe riding, right? Well, I guess BT 5.0 with is touted 800 ft range would work, but that means all 5 riders need to stay in tight prescribed formation. You ever seen that happen? What if a couple of them stretch out to 3 seconds apart? That adds 176 feet. Add a sixth rider to the group with two spaced at 3 seconds and now you're up to 1056 feet from lead to tail. Oops, there's a hill ahead. Get ready for BT signal dropout, if you even can connected int he first place!

Let's see, a poor CB signal should reach at least a half mile and more likely a mile. Just think how many more riders you can add to the group and still the lead and tail can communicate. And every one in between can hear them without contending with the hassles and limitations of getting all the BT devices to pair!!

Yes Bruiser, BT is great technology, and there is no question in many communication situations it is the best. But sometimes old technology can still trump the new stuff. Your unequivocal put down of CB radios is not warranted, but there are cases where it should be superseded by the new. On the other hand, there are cases where it is the best.

A word of advice. Keep up with the new, but jettison the old very carefully!!