Cat Bypass - The Next Step in Heat Reduction

[jaherbst]

Right!

Jack, I'll be very happy if the cat bypass reduces my seat heat another 10-20% from what it was when I first bought the bike. The things I have already done have gotten rid of about 75% of the original heat, and eliminated the boiling gas issue for me. And the ECM update (Bulletin 2013-9), which enriched the mixture at idle and slow speeds, has helped some too when you are in slow moving situations. As this thread title implies, the cat bypass is just another step in the process. I won't know now until next summer how effective it has been.

I entirely agree with you that where you live makes a big difference. I have been closely monitoring the heat threads on this forum, and with few exceptions, it seems that those with the largest complaints - even with boiling gas and overflowing canisters - live in the southern states where the temperature gets hotter and stays hotter longer.

Just curious to know, Jack, how that conversation went.

Talked to Danny Davey--after sale service for BRP. As you might guess BRP is not going to commit to anything unless they have to. Two recalls from BRP already and they are working still for a fix. They are obviously trying to address the problem but how is anyones guess. Major problem is they put the wrong engine in the wrong frame. You are aware that the 2013 has the newly designed frame for the 1330 engine in the 14. Tolerances and exhaust are not compatable thus the heat problems in the 2013. They continue to make the "Mickey Mouse" band aid fixes that are not doing any of us in the warmer climes any good.

Jack

 

[stormtrooper]

Not new to Spyders but new to a RT Spyder.Is this cat by pass something that I will want to put on my wish list (2014 RT-S) or is this cat by pass more for the 2013 RT's? Thanks :yes:

 

[jcthorne]

The difference is the newly designed frame for the 14's that they used in the 13's with the 998 engine. The frame was not designed to work with the 998. The tolerances are different and the add on mounts to adapt the 14 frame to the 13 engine (998)
puts the exhaust including the CAT in or around the tupperware. The exhaust on the 998 flows around and down the engine, then through the CAT, back over to the exhaust pipe and then the muffler. On the 1330 the exhaust goes strait down and out, back to the exposed CAT then the muffler. Thus avoiding all the exhaust piping and CAT inside the cowling or tupperware. WRONG FRAME FOR WRONG ENGINE.

Jack

Mostly correct except its NOT a 2013 design issue. ITS EXACTLY THE SAME on 2010 thru 2012 RT models. The new frame changed NOTHING with the exhaust routing that has any material change on the under hood heat. Oh, and the cat is not inside the tupperware, its under the bike exposed to air flow. Same place as on the 2014 by the way.

And to say it was not designed to work with the 998 engine when there are literally thousands of them on the road is way off base. Of course it was designed to work with the 998 engine, compromise design perhaps but the over all design just has air flow problems that cause heat build up.

Its not a fundamentally wrong design, it just needs some tweaks to fix some issues. Sure the 14 is better, that does not make the prior designs wrong. Now if they would just get off their arse and do so. BRP is not going to give you a 2014 nor replace engines on 2013s. If we are VERY LUCKY they will design some new body panels to add air flow like they did for the ST. Its not likely they are going to do much more than that. They are not going to buy them back.

 

[Bob Denman]

:shocked: What he said... :agree:

They did change the left-side lower body panel once for the RTs; it should be easy enough for them to do it again. :thumbup:

 

[jaherbst]

Mostly correct except its NOT a 2013 design issue. ITS EXACTLY THE SAME on 2010 thru 2012 RT models. The new frame changed NOTHING with the exhaust routing that has any material change on the under hood heat. Oh, and the cat is not inside the tupperware, its under the bike exposed to air flow. Same place as on the 2014 by the way.

And to say it was not designed to work with the 998 engine when there are literally thousands of them on the road is way off base. Of course it was designed to work with the 998 engine, compromise design perhaps but the over all design just has air flow problems that cause heat build up.

Its not a fundamentally wrong design, it just needs some tweaks to fix some issues. Sure the 14 is better, that does not make the prior designs wrong. Now if they would just get off their arse and do so. BRP is not going to give you a 2014 nor replace engines on 2013s. If we are VERY LUCKY they will design some new body panels to add air flow like they did for the ST. Its not likely they are going to do much more than that. They are not going to buy them back.

We each have our own opinions on this matter. I will have more to say in two weeks but unable at this time.

FYI after fact mounts were placed (welded) on the new frame to accommodate the 998 engine and 5 spd transmission. Engine does not sit in the frame as the 2010-2012 thus limiting the air flow around the engine and exhaust.

Jack

 

[jaherbst]

:agree: Are they mailing you a 1130?? :dontknow: :bbq::bbq::bbq:

What is an 1130 Bob?

Jack

 

[jcthorne]

We each have our own opinions on this matter. I will have more to say in two weeks but unable at this time.

FYI after fact mounts were placed (welded) on the new frame to accommodate the 998 engine and 5 spd transmission. Engine does not sit in the frame as the 2010-2012 thus limiting the air flow around the engine and exhaust.

Jack

I think we are actually agreeing more than you think. Your point about the frame changes limiting air flow are spot on. I was just trying to confirm the the exhaust routing was not new and different in 2013. The lesser air flow in 2013 made the hot exhaust more of an issue. But there are better ways of increasing air flow on the existing bike that replacing the engine.

I hope BRP does come up with some fixes. They will add to what I have already done. I cannot afford to take the loss and buy two new RTs. We will ride and enjoy the ones we have. I am out money and time to fix but its the best we can do with the situation. The other alternative is to not ride. We enjoy the bikes too much for that.

If your way out is some sort of legal action or lemon law claim, more power to you. I am not going to involve lawyers to drive up my blood pressure and lemon law would not help in Texas.

If the heat ends up causing damage or a fire, that's what warranties and insurance are for. Until then, we enjoy them as best we are able.

 

[Magdave]

We each have our own opinions on this matter. I will have more to say in two weeks but unable at this time.

FYI after fact mounts were placed (welded) on the new frame to accommodate the 998 engine and 5 spd transmission. Engine does not sit in the frame as the 2010-2012 thus limiting the air flow around the engine and exhaust.

Jack

opcorn: I agree whole heartedly with your thoughts. The truth is the 2013 was SUPPOSED to have the 1330 in it but engine development was slow so they had to come up with a "quick fix" for the 13 to use the 998. They refuse to acknowledge it nor do anything to really fix the issues they created with their Frankinbike up to this point. I am keeping my fingers crossed for them to figure out a REAL solution even if it means a BMW buy back. It should be their loss not mine. :shocked: I await your "2 week" report.:thumbup:

 

[jaherbst]

I think we are actually agreeing more than you think. Your point about the frame changes limiting air flow are spot on. I was just trying to confirm the the exhaust routing was not new and different in 2013. The lesser air flow in 2013 made the hot exhaust more of an issue. But there are better ways of increasing air flow on the existing bike that replacing the engine.

I hope BRP does come up with some fixes. They will add to what I have already done. I cannot afford to take the loss and buy two new RTs. We will ride and enjoy the ones we have. I am out money and time to fix but its the best we can do with the situation. The other alternative is to not ride. We enjoy the bikes too much for that.

If your way out is some sort of legal action or lemon law claim, more power to you. I am not going to involve lawyers to drive up my blood pressure and lemon law would not help in Texas.

If the heat ends up causing damage or a fire, that's what warranties and insurance are for. Until then, we enjoy them as best we are able.

No lawyers or lemon law. Sorry I am unable to say more. BRP is actually trying but falls short with their small "band Aid" fixes. More airflow inside the tupperware and around the Fuel tank would fix the problem. I could figure that out without even tapping into my engineering license. Air Scoops or Fan inside the tupperware forcing airflow past engine and fuel tank to exit rear is what is needed.

Jack

 

[jaherbst]

opcorn: I agree whole heartedly with your thoughts. The truth is the 2013 was SUPPOSED to have the 1330 in it but engine development was slow so they had to come up with a "quick fix" for the 13 to use the 998. They refuse to acknowledge it nor do anything to really fix the issues they created with their Frankinbike up to this point. I am keeping my fingers crossed for them to figure out a REAL solution even if it means a BMW buy back. It should be their loss not mine. :shocked: I await your "2 week" report.:thumbup:

That is exactly what happened. Welded on some after thought engine mounts for the 998 (which is obviously not compatable) when they found out the 1330 engine was not ready. 998's were readily available and here we are one year later spending thousands of dollars to get our Spiders to run cooler with little help from BRP. Try to trade the 2013 in here in the SW and your in for an incredible reverse sticker shock. I have tried seven different dealers. Two recalls later "Mickey Mouse" "Band Aid" cheep fixes that did not work. I removed CAT also, bought full sheepskin seat for heat and now working on a third fix.

The fix that will work will take a few dollars and BRP does not want to step up to the plate yet. It will probably cost someone a life to get them off center as most things do. I am very concerned about my future health breathing strong gas fumes every time I ride. One thing not mentioned is heat destroys hoses, plastic parts, engines and transmissions. What else is the excessive heat destroying! When will these things rear there ugly heads. Things to think about. eh

Jack

 

[jcthorne]

No lawyers or lemon law. Sorry I am unable to say more. BRP is actually trying but falls short with their small "band Aid" fixes. More airflow inside the tupperware and around the Fuel tank would fix the problem. I could figure that out without even tapping into my engineering license. Air Scoops or Fan inside the tupperware forcing airflow past engine and fuel tank to exit rear is what is needed.

Jack

Agree, a well engineered air flow system as you describe would absolutely fix the ailments.

 

[stormtrooper]

I asked earlier in this thread.Is this a 2013 RT issue or will I be doing this cat by pass to my 2014 RT ?

 

[bmccaffrey]

Every one needs to learn to play together and be nice. Everyone has opinions and respect them for that and not get defensive. But brp has issues with the 13. Probably will get resolved 18 or 20if .
My opinion and that's all it is do not throw me under the bus the cat is too big. Like a boiler not a wood stove to much metal. The more metal the more to heat up and more heat to get rid of. Heat rises cold settles.
EVERYONE have a good night :yes:

 

[jcthorne]

I asked earlier in this thread.Is this a 2013 RT issue or will I be doing this cat by pass to my 2014 RT ?

The cat bypass offers less heat under the seat and lower legs (especially for the passenger) better performance and a better sounding exhaust.

These benefits apply pretty much equally to both 2013 and prior as they do for the 2014. Deciding if you desire any of those things is your choice.

 

[Bob Denman]

For the Record: my 2014 has shown NO tendancy whatsoever, to roast the rider or passenger with underseat heat...
For the 2014s; I think that it's more a question of "want", than it is "need"...

...just sayin'...

 

[robmorg]

For the Record: my 2014 has shown NO tendancy whatsoever, to roast the rider or passenger with underseat heat...
For the 2014s; I think that it's more a question of "want", than it is "need"...

...just sayin'...

:agree: I cannot attest to how much heat is generated on the 2014 models by the catalytic converter, but I generally agree with that you said. I have seen other threads here where 2014 owners have been asked why they are installing the cat bypass, but I've never seen an answer being offered. The torque gain is reported as minimal, and the 1330 engine already has plenty of torque in the lower range, does it not? The sound may deepen slightly, but unless you also replace the stock muffler, the sound will not change significantly, from what I've been told.

It would not appear that you can justify doing the cat bypass on a Spyder with the 1330 engine from the standpoint of "need". I certainly wouldn't be eliminating the cat on my 2013 RT, if it were not for the heat issue. ...not that there is anything necessarily wrong with buying something just because you "want it".

 

[Bob Denman]

Folks just WANT to do it: COOL! :2thumbs:

 

[HIspyder]

Do a Google search: removing emission control systems

I guess I'm missing the point why anyone would want to risk fines and penalties over a minimal gain in performance, if any at all.

Speaking as a former auto tech, working in the state of California, who also held a smog certification license, there is no real power gained by removing a catalytic converter unless it's plugged/restricted in some way. Environmentally it makes no sense at all to me. Mine will stay on.


Just my opinion.

 

[jcthorne]

Mine reduced heat under the bike significantly. Also the performance gain was VERY noticeable, not subtle. Also, even with the stock muffler, it sounds much better. I had thought quite a bit about an aftermarket exhaust on the RT as it was just too quiet. Louise and I have no desire for aftermarket exhaust now, they sound MUCH better, but this is on a Vtwin.

Never really liked the sound of the triple with the opened up exhaust, just sounds strange to me.

There are no emissions inspections on motorcycles.

 

[wolfeman220940]

Central Florida PowerSports did a CAT bypass and they show the difference in temps with a RT-S. Here is the video of it. I do not know how to link it to the page.

Who is selling these? I need for summer time riding in Deep south texas.