Canadian-made Candu reactors

[docdoru]

"The second group includes the Canadian-made Candu reactors, of which there are two in Romania. If these reactors are shut down very fast, there is the risk of a temporary surge in heat and this is why they were not allowed in Germany and France, Haverkamp explained."
http://www.cnbc.com/id/42090874

 

[Eraser]

Being a Canadian,I'd love to know your point ,Doc.All nuclear Power is dangerous!!!http://canteach.candu.org/library/20010701.pdf

 

[kokki]

But without nuclear power.. what will we do? Live in caves?

 

[Eraser]

But without nuclear power.. what will we do? Live in caves?

True enough for the moment.Solar,Wind and Water still to be developed.Maybe one day...
Edited to add: ...and of course the super conductor which If/When found will change how we look at electricity.

 

[docdoru]

Nothing against the Canadian reactors, at that time (1970's) they were top of the line. The problem is the aging power plants http://money.cnn.com/2011/03/15/news/economy/nuclear_plants_us/index.htm
BTW, France is using 80% of the power from nucs, but 70% of the power plants are located in Spain...

 

[Eraser]

Nothing against the Canadian reactors, at that time (1970's) they were top of the line. The problem is the aging power plants http://money.cnn.com/2011/03/15/news/economy/nuclear_plants_us/index.htm

BTW, France is using 80% of the power from nucs, but 70% of the power plants are located in Spain...

For sure!
There was a spill in Canada last night,a lot overshadowed by the events in Japan; http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2011/03/16/pickering-nuclear-leak.html :yikes:

*The leak actually happened Mon. evening.

 

[NancysToy]

For sure!
There was a spill in Canada last night,a lot overshadowed by the events in Japan; http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2011/03/16/pickering-nuclear-leak.html :yikes:

*The leak actually happened Mon. evening.

Sorry, alarmist reporting, as far as I'm concerned. I do not subscribe to the "We don't know, so it is bad!" rule of journalism. Seal failures like this are common, the radiation is monitored, and the drainage systems certainly don't lead directly to Lake Ontario. We ran into this kind of knee-jerk "environmentalism" in the wastewater industry, too. All the safe-guards and redundant systems in the world never satisfy the worriers. I never lost a drop of raw sewage on my watch, in 26 years that I was responsible, but somebody was always sure that it was inevitable. (End of knee-jerk reaction. )

 

[Firefly]

Sorry, alarmist reporting, as far as I'm concerned. I do not subscribe to the "We don't know, so it is bad!" rule of journalism. Seal failures like this are common, the radiation is monitored, and the drainage systems certainly don't lead directly to Lake Ontario. We ran into this kind of knee-jerk "environmentalism" in the wastewater industry, too. All the safe-guards and redundant systems in the world never satisfy the worriers. I never lost a drop of raw sewage on my watch, in 26 years that I was responsible, but somebody was always sure that it was inevitable. (End of knee-jerk reaction. )

I agree-- and the idea that 'All' nuclear power is dangerous is just absurd.

The safety measures in Japan worked quite well actually. If they had not there could have been a total meltdown within days. Chernobyl didn't have good safety backups in place, Japan does -- but they are being taxed beyond what anyone comprehended could happen.

Good chance they'll have to use the 'Chernobyl' technique to get things under control. This will essentially involve military copters dropping various substances that will form concrete and encapsulate the entire pools and cores in thick cement.

I feel terrible for that area and hope they can get things under control soon, but the 'sky is not falling', nor are we in any danger over here. That area may very well end up another Chernobyl - which will be very sad indeed.

Remember, this is still 1970's technology for the most part. A good part of the problem is that we have not been able to build NEW, SAFER power nuke plants (thorium for example).

Less pollution than burning coal to make power for sure.

Although someday I wonder if future generations will look back and say "They did what??? They boiled water with radioactive materials to make electricity?" lol

 

[Eraser]

Sorry, alarmist reporting, as far as I'm concerned. I do not subscribe to the "We don't know, so it is bad!" rule of journalism. Seal failures like this are common, the radiation is monitored, and the drainage systems certainly don't lead directly to Lake Ontario. We ran into this kind of knee-jerk "environmentalism" in the wastewater industry, too. All the safe-guards and redundant systems in the world never satisfy the worriers. I never lost a drop of raw sewage on my watch, in 26 years that I was responsible, but somebody was always sure that it was inevitable. (End of knee-jerk reaction. )

Alarmist reporting,who knows.You won't see me at the Pickering harbour front filling up my water bottle any time soon.

 

[dancogan]

Sorry, alarmist reporting, as far as I'm concerned. I do not subscribe to the "We don't know, so it is bad!" rule of journalism. Seal failures like this are common, the radiation is monitored, and the drainage systems certainly don't lead directly to Lake Ontario.... )

Sorry, but this is what the news report said:

Ontario Power Generation has notified Canada's federal nuclear regulator about the release of 73,000 litres of demineralized water into Lake Ontario at the Pickering A nuclear generating station.

 

[RoadHammer]

Aren't the nuc plants in Japan designed by GE ? I think i heard 3 of 4 are GE designs.

 

[NancysToy]

Sorry, but this is what the news report said:

Ontario Power Generation has notified Canada's federal nuclear regulator about the release of 73,000 litres of demineralized water into Lake Ontario at the Pickering A nuclear generating station.

Thanks Dan, I didn't catch that part. Now you know why I'd rather read a paper than scroll a computer screen. pps: I do notice that they say nothing about contaminated water or radioactivity. In addition, that kind of volume doesn't generally come from a seal failure...it is more likely a tank dump to repair the seal. There are questions involved, but I still feel the approach is alarmist. I remember the days when a good reporter got all the facts first...then relayed those facts. If a specific person stone-walled him, he exposed that person. General statements and expressed discomfort, gain nothing.

Having worked with both safety and emergency response for many years, I feel strongly that the approval of plants, the safety and engineering standards, and the depth of the response contingencies, is probably lacking in some of the nuclear power industry, as well as in other hazardous industries. If the public knew the facts, they would likely revolt. However you cut it, though, a "sky is falling" approach will neither enlighten us, nor change the industry. It will take cold, hard facts to eventually break the doors down, not basic fears.

 

[SpyderWolf]

Sorry, but this is what the news report said:

Ontario Power Generation has notified Canada's federal nuclear regulator about the release of 73,000 litres of demineralized water into Lake Ontario at the Pickering A nuclear generating station.

Isn't demineralized water basically the same thing as water that has been run through Reverse Osmosis? RO removes all minerals from the water based on the micron sizes of the filters. This water then becomes what they call hungry water, as it is looking for minerals to absorb. If you check many bottled water products you will see it was purified by Reverse Osmosis and then minerals were added for taste. RO water is also used in mixing salt for saltwater aquariums and is the best way to do things, but they say you don't want to use it in a freshwater tank as those fish need the minerals freshwater has in it. So, the question would be is 73,000 litres of purified water going to be enough in Lake Ontario to cause any real damage?

As for the reactors, this was a 1-2 punch that nobody could have predicted. The reactors were built by GE, Hitachi and others, and we are running some of the same designs in this country. This facility was built to withstand an earthquake of 8.2 magnitude and the one that hit was 7 times greater than that at 8.9. Even after the quake things were still okay at the reactors. Then the Tsunami came and destroyed all of the diesel generators that were running the cooling systems. With no way to keep cooling the active reactors, and the rods in the storage pools, it was just a matter of time before things went bad. I truly hope they are able to get temporary power restored soon in order to begin cooling everything off again. I definitely feel for those workers who are putting their lives on the line within the facility attempting to keep things from getting any worse. ray:

 

[docdoru]

Japanese engineers conceded earlier on Friday (3.18.2011) that burying a crippled nuclear plant in sand and concrete may be the only way to prevent a catastrophic radiation release, the method used to seal huge leakages from Chernobyl in 1986.

 

[dancogan]

Isn't demineralized water basically the same thing as water that has been run through Reverse Osmosis? RO removes all minerals from the water based on the micron sizes of the filters. This water then becomes what they call hungry water, as it is looking for minerals to absorb. If you check many bottled water products you will see it was purified by Reverse Osmosis and then minerals were added for taste. RO water is also used in mixing salt for saltwater aquariums and is the best way to do things, but they say you don't want to use it in a freshwater tank as those fish need the minerals freshwater has in it. So, the question would be is 73,000 litres of purified water going to be enough in Lake Ontario to cause any real damage?...

Can't answer your question about any real damage, but here's a Wikipedia explanation of demineralized water:

Why is demineralised water not suitable for consumption?
There are three evident reasons:

1. Demineralised water is highly aggressive.
   Its distribution through pipes and storage tanks is not possible because the aggressive water would leach metals and other materials from the pipes and other plumbing materials.
2. Demineralised water has poor taste and thirst-quenching characteristics.
   This is again due to its lack of minerals.
3. Demineralised water has been proven to have adverse health effects for humans, due to the deficency of certain constituents. This is further documented in the following paragraph.

Read more: http://www.lenntech.com/demi-water-faq.htm#ixzz1GwpUNI3n
​

 

[SpyderWolf]

Japanese engineers conceded earlier on Friday (3.18.2011) that burying a crippled nuclear plant in sand and concrete may be the only way to prevent a catastrophic radiation release, the method used to seal huge leakages from Chernobyl in 1986.

That is truly a crying shame. I wish it was better news.

Can't answer your question about any real damage, but here's a Wikipedia explanation of demineralized water:

Why is demineralised water not suitable for consumption?
There are three evident reasons:

1. Demineralised water is highly aggressive.
   Its distribution through pipes and storage tanks is not possible because the aggressive water would leach metals and other materials from the pipes and other plumbing materials.
2. Demineralised water has poor taste and thirst-quenching characteristics.
   This is again due to its lack of minerals.
3. Demineralised water has been proven to have adverse health effects for humans, due to the deficency of certain constituents. This is further documented in the following paragraph.

Read more: http://www.lenntech.com/demi-water-faq.htm#ixzz1GwpUNI3n ​

That is the same as Reverse Osmosis water. You don't store it in metal containers, or run it through metal pipes if you don't want those minerals to get back into it after filtering. You don't want to drink it because it will pull minerals from wherever it can get them, which means salt from your body. However, once it has absorbed those minerals it goes back to being safe drinking water. In this case, if it just dumped into the lake then chances are it has plenty of minerals to absorb and will be just plain fresh water again. The truth will likely only be known by either a massive fish die off, or the lack of one. The lack of one would show that everything is good to go with it.

This has been a good discussion.

 

[chris56]

I work in the enery-efficiency-sektor and have the feeling that most people (US ?) have to consider about the resources what are available for uor generation
have finished my "hybrid refrigerator" (Patent) ..which workes with cold air (if available like now ) or with his standard cooling System ..
and I want to have the first hybrid-spyder !!
think all this Ideas could spare a atomic power plant ..year by year

 

[SpyderWolf]

I work in the enery-efficiency-sektor and have the feeling that most people (US ?) have to consider about the resources what are available for uor generation
have finished my "hybrid refrigerator" (Patent) ..which workes with cold air (if available like now ) or with his standard cooling System ..
and I want to have the first hybrid-spyder !!
think all this Ideas could spare a atomic power plant ..year by year

The hybrid refrigerator idea is pretty interesting. Depending on how effective it could be made on a large scale, there is a chance it might be able to help since it is currently cold in Japan. Very cool concept to say the least. :thumbup:

 

[Eraser]

I work in the enery-efficiency-sektor and have the feeling that most people (US ?) have to consider about the resources what are available for uor generation
have finished my "hybrid refrigerator" (Patent) ..which workes with cold air (if available like now ) or with his standard cooling System ..
and I want to have the first hybrid-spyder !!
think all this Ideas could spare a atomic power plant ..year by year

 

[spydee owner]

university of british columbia

This university is also working on lighting office buildings with sunlight reflected with mirrors. Very cool.