Can-Am's position on tires

[Possible]

But is it actually unauthorized? From what I've read, the Spyder wheel bead profiles are car tire type bead profile, not motorcycle bead profile. So it
could be argued that putting a motorcycle tire on a Spyder would be dangerous.

 

[Steve W.]

..., but it appears Kuhmos are not so good in the US when it’s wet. Maybe different tyre compounds, maybe different road surfaces... :dontknow:

Pete

On the other hand, since you are "down under", maybe it's because you're riding on the other side of the rain drops? :dontknow:

.

 

[lvmyspyder]

I wanted to post this. I took my 2018 RT on a road trip today after I did a local speed and cornering rally locally on new Federal Formoza's, same size as the KENDA OEM's. Today, temp was never over 41 degrees and up over Snoqualmie Pass and then back on a run to Vantage and then back home. There was ice on the road in the morning and in some of the shady spots on I-90 and I am NOT advocating anyone run their Spyder's in snow or icy conditions. I did back down on the throttle as I hit some of those patches. In no way am I advocating putting anyone or our wonderful machines at risk. I will say a few things I would like to share. I was VERY happy I had three wheels. Some may not think that is as cool as 2-wheels. Whatever...I was planted. In fact in about 6 hours of riding, I was the only "bike" I saw on the freeway this trip and that is unusual. Likely it was because at 29-41 degrees temps no one was quite as stupid as I was. But it was simply a majestic day, sunny, but cold. Another point for the RT, it blocks a LOT of wind, so really never got that chill that comes with riding in that weather without chaps. What I can say is if you have the stock Kenda's and you have that wobble you can't get rid of. Ditch em. Don't think about it. Just do it. I have read on here of some other tires folks are running with good results and good for them. Today, I could actually take my hands off the steering yoke on my RT and could buzz about 2/10's of a mile without hands on. I could have gone longer and I did this several times. Again...not advocating that, but with the wobble that was always there, there was NO WAY I could have dreamed of doing that with the Kenda's. I tried one time as an experiment and that lasted about 1/2 a second before I had to put hands on the yoke again as the wobble got instantly worse. Car tire or not. I am dropping the word car from this tire, because it works like a dream on my RT. Smooth as silk up to 89mph on a bumpy, lousy road between Ellensburg and Vantage, the old Hi-way. Bottom line is riding today was almost effortless. I have the Baja Ron sway bar and put the Fox racing shocks on as well and those both helped, but the addition of these tires on the front end, truly made this machine perform like it was capable of and reinforced the decision to buy the Sypder in the first place. I am angry about one thing and that is why I did not do this as soon as I got my RT. I know they are car tires, but they perform amazingly on the Spyder, but if you really want a ride and performance that your Spyder is capable of, I strongly suggest you look at replacing your Kenda OEM front tires. I know PSI is also a concern for many. I started at 20 psi (very cold out) with the intention of adjusting, likely downward towards the 18ish range, but honestly, I think for these tires, that will be my sweet spot. Ride was not harsh and even the hiways suck in Washington, so I hit some holes and bumps. I am picky. Okay maybe even downright anal retentive about things and I could mess with the pressure to see if I could squeeze more out of these, but I like to run as much pressure as I can. Just wanted to share some thoughts with the forum if you were on the fence about changing out your front OEM Kenda's. Again, I am miffed at myself, because I have done this similar ride about 5 times since November, sometimes doing a larger loop around 325 miles at a shot. I could have had all 5 of those be butter smooth and not a wobbly PITButt I experienced with the Kenda's. That's just fact about how the Federal Formoza AZ01's are working on my RT. These are new, but yesterday and today, I put these things through their paces, so I could give an honest, objective "opinion" and today for sure, I finally felt in complete control, relaxed, but attentive and completely safe on my Spyder. In all honesty, that is the first time I have felt like that since I have owned it. I will take that kind of assurance when riding. Above anything, just wishing everyone on our forum safe rides wherever you are or wherever you go.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

But is it actually unauthorized? From what I've read, the Spyder wheel bead profiles are car tire type bead profile, not motorcycle bead profile. So it
could be argued that putting a motorcycle tire on a Spyder would be dangerous.

Thanks for pointing this out ..... and I'm sure a motorcycle tire would not seat on a " J " style rim ...... Mike :thumbup:

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

What does your insurance company think about the unauthorized use of a car tire on a motorcycle? I'm pretty sure no one dares to ask the question of their lawyers.

Are you betting everything you own and will ever own on them overlooking this loop hole to avoid paying out in the event of a mishap?

Do you realize that EVERY Trike that Harley Davidson sells ..... has DUNLOP ....AUTO TIRES on it ...... how is this possible ????? .... Mike

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I wanted to post this. I took my 2018 RT on a road trip today after I did a local speed and cornering rally locally on new Federal Formoza's, same size as the KENDA OEM's. Today, temp was never over 41 degrees and up over Snoqualmie Pass and then back on a run to Vantage and then back home. There was ice on the road in the morning and in some of the shady spots on I-90 and I am NOT advocating anyone run their Spyder's in snow or icy conditions. I did back down on the throttle as I hit some of those patches. In no way am I advocating putting anyone or our wonderful machines at risk. I will say a few things I would like to share. I was VERY happy I had three wheels. Some may not think that is as cool as 2-wheels. Whatever...I was planted. In fact in about 6 hours of riding, I was the only "bike" I saw on the freeway this trip and that is unusual. Likely it was because at 29-41 degrees temps no one was quite as stupid as I was. But it was simply a majestic day, sunny, but cold. Another point for the RT, it blocks a LOT of wind, so really never got that chill that comes with riding in that weather without chaps. What I can say is if you have the stock Kenda's and you have that wobble you can't get rid of. Ditch em. Don't think about it. Just do it. I have read on here of some other tires folks are running with good results and good for them. Today, I could actually take my hands off the steering yoke on my RT and could buzz about 2/10's of a mile without hands on. I could have gone longer and I did this several times. Again...not advocating that, but with the wobble that was always there, there was NO WAY I could have dreamed of doing that with the Kenda's. I tried one time as an experiment and that lasted about 1/2 a second before I had to put hands on the yoke again as the wobble got instantly worse. Car tire or not. I am dropping the word car from this tire, because it works like a dream on my RT. Smooth as silk up to 89mph on a bumpy, lousy road between Ellensburg and Vantage, the old Hi-way. Bottom line is riding today was almost effortless. I have the Baja Ron sway bar and put the Fox racing shocks on as well and those both helped, but the addition of these tires on the front end, truly made this machine perform like it was capable of and reinforced the decision to buy the Sypder in the first place. I am angry about one thing and that is why I did not do this as soon as I got my RT. I know they are car tires, but they perform amazingly on the Spyder, but if you really want a ride and performance that your Spyder is capable of, I strongly suggest you look at replacing your Kenda OEM front tires. I know PSI is also a concern for many. I started at 20 psi (very cold out) with the intention of adjusting, likely downward towards the 18ish range, but honestly, I think for these tires, that will be my sweet spot. Ride was not harsh and even the hiways suck in Washington, so I hit some holes and bumps. I am picky. Okay maybe even downright anal retentive about things and I could mess with the pressure to see if I could squeeze more out of these, but I like to run as much pressure as I can. Just wanted to share some thoughts with the forum if you were on the fence about changing out your front OEM Kenda's. Again, I am miffed at myself, because I have done this similar ride about 5 times since November, sometimes doing a larger loop around 325 miles at a shot. I could have had all 5 of those be butter smooth and not a wobbly PITButt I experienced with the Kenda's. That's just fact about how the Federal Formoza AZ01's are working on my RT. These are new, but yesterday and today, I put these things through their paces, so I could give an honest, objective "opinion" and today for sure, I finally felt in complete control, relaxed, but attentive and completely safe on my Spyder. In all honesty, that is the first time I have felt like that since I have owned it. I will take that kind of assurance when riding. Above anything, just wishing everyone on our forum safe rides wherever you are or wherever you go.

Nice write-up, your fairly new here and to Spyders so you probably arn't aware that the Kenda vs. any Auto tire was figuered out back in 2010 .... in favor of Auto tires ...... and the Formosa's are a decent tire, and when they are worn out think about the Vredestein Q-5 ..... among it 's other great attributes is - it's may be the ONLY All-season tire that has Winter rating .... to you this means in cooler temps it functions better than reg All-season tires .... and consider 17-18 psi. Auto tires on Spyders do better at these lower pressures ..... Good luck ..... Mike :thumbup:

 

[ButterSmooth]

My choice and sizing is below my signature, Snoking
As Peter says, we get different brands and compounds out here, and very limited choices . The Kuhmos I am running here are great in the wet, but it appears Kuhmos are not so good in the US when it’s wet. Maybe different tyre compounds, maybe different road surfaces... :dontknow:

Pete

Kumhos blurb on the PS31 says different: ..."A high-technology summer compound features High Dispersible Micro Silica for a more even distribution of silica throughout the contact patch and High Grip Resin to enhance dry and wet traction. The compound is molded into a directional tread pattern with a solid center rib for improved high-speed stability and 3D Dimple Design heat dimples help minimize heat buildup in the tread blocks, increasing durability for reduced wear. Optimized lateral groove angles resist irregular wear while maximizing water displacement during wet-weather cornering, and the four wide, circumferential main grooves work with diagonal-sipe microgrooves to evacuate water from the footprint for hydroplaning resistance."

And Tirerack's customer ratings give it a 8.3 (good) wet traction rating.

The Ecsta AST isn't rated yet and the description is less wet-driving focused. Both PS31 and AST are temp A traction A rated.

 

[Peter Aawen]

The major issue with Kumho's not behaving too well in the wet is almost always related to users running them at pressures that are too high for the load our Spyders impose upon them; and too high for the tread compound to generate enough heat to work properly & get 'sticky' enough to do their job the way they can & will IF they are running at the right pressures!! :sour: But I've covered that quite a few times already, so I won't bore you all again!

 

[lvmyspyder]

Copy what you said Idaho and it makes sense. If the Kenda's had worked out for me on my machine, I too would have gone...meh, I will ride with them. If its working, its working. I was pretty skeptical actually about the Federal's, because they were pretty inexpensive, but when they got here, was pretty impressed with them. I was also not that much of a fan of the tread design, but I put them on and rode them hard for 100 miles and became more confident in them the entire time. Today, with wet and ice and just a good hi-way run, that bike felt like a different machine and what these machines are capable of. Whether someone changes out is personal preference. I wanted to post something I wish I had read so that I could have been confident in the $160 decision and time to make the swap. I even kept the Kenda's to go back to them if this did not work out. When I got home put the bike away and second thing I did was recycle the Kenda's. $160 is not a lot of money to try for a better solution, but quite honestly, would have spent double that had I known the Federals would have made this much of a difference.

 

[lvmyspyder]

Hey Mike. I am up for trying anything that will make that bike function and perform better. I appreciate the input on the Q-5's. Definitely consider those on the next swap or if these Federals start declining in performance as they age and start to wear. 20 psi, worked pretty well for me...but...I will try what you recommend and see how that changes the dynamics. Appreciate the recommendations and knowledge share.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

The major issue with Kumho's not behaving too well in the wet is almost always related to users running them at pressures that are too high for the load our Spyders impose upon them; and too high for the tread compound to generate enough heat to work properly & get 'sticky' enough to do their job the way they can & will IF they are running at the right pressures!! :sour: But I've covered that quite a few times already, so I won't bore you all again!

:agree::agree: and let me add another reason for Proper tire pressure .... because Spyders weigh a lot less than cars as Peter said they need less air pressure..... this allows the " sipes " cut into the tread to FLEX more easily .... these " sipes " are important to the tires WET road traction in conjunction with the actual trad compound ...... try lower PSI's you may be pleasantly surprised at the results ...... Mike :thumbup:

 

[Fatcycledaddy]

I hit a deer with my Spyder in July. a little over $12,000 in damage. I have CAR tires all the way around and the insurance company never said a single word about it, they paid for it all!!

 

[Fatcycledaddy]

It doesn't matter what the blurb says, real world experience says it all.
I installed a Kuhmo about 1,000 miles before we went on a 2 week trip towing our camper trailer. We average about 5,000 miles on each trip, then we have our normal riding thought the season. The tire road nice, handled well and I very happy with it. We took a trip out west the next year and was on the way back to Michigan when we hit some bad rain in Ohio. I felt like I was on ice, the back end was all over the place and I had to run at about 25-35 MPH in a 55zone just to feel safe. We stopped and got a room nd discussed that if it was raining the next day we would set until the roads were dry before we would head on home. The tire had about 13,000 miles on it at that point.

As soon as I got home I changed the tire and junked it.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

It doesn't matter what the blurb says, real world experience says it all.
I installed a Kuhmo about 1,000 miles before we went on a 2 week trip towing our camper trailer. We average about 5,000 miles on each trip, then we have our normal riding thought the season. The tire road nice, handled well and I very happy with it. We took a trip out west the next year and was on the way back to Michigan when we hit some bad rain in Ohio. I felt like I was on ice, the back end was all over the place and I had to run at about 25-35 MPH in a 55zone just to feel safe. We stopped and got a room nd discussed that if it was raining the next day we would set until the roads were dry before we would head on home. The tire had about 13,000 miles on it at that point.

As soon as I got home I changed the tire and junked it.

Thanks for this timely info ..... you are just one of many, many folks here who have had the same experience with the Kumho's ..... Mike :thumbup:

 

[ButterSmooth]

It doesn't matter what the blurb says, real world experience says it all.
I installed a Kuhmo about 1,000 miles before we went on a 2 week trip towing our camper trailer. We average about 5,000 miles on each trip, then we have our normal riding thought the season. The tire road nice, handled well and I very happy with it. We took a trip out west the next year and was on the way back to Michigan when we hit some bad rain in Ohio. I felt like I was on ice, the back end was all over the place and I had to run at about 25-35 MPH in a 55zone just to feel safe. We stopped and got a room nd discussed that if it was raining the next day we would set until the roads were dry before we would head on home. The tire had about 13,000 miles on it at that point.

As soon as I got home I changed the tire and junked it.

Which Kuhmo-- Was that the AST? Posts like yours are really helpful -- now I know what to watch for. Thanks. The good news is that in the last 5 years, I haven't ridden in the rain once...ray:

 

[Fatcycledaddy]

Which Kuhmo-- Was that the AST? Posts like yours are really helpful -- now I know what to watch for. Thanks. The good news is that in the last 5 years, I haven't ridden in the rain once...ray:

Kumho Ecsta AST. Ran it with 20 PSI two up towing the trailer. Tire was wearing nice and even all the way across the tread. It was good in the rain the first years trip.
Unfortunately when we are on a trip, we do ride in the rain. Last trip to WV and VA it rained 4 out of 7 days.

 

[lvmyspyder]

Thank you for this post. It's one thing to look at a manufacture's web page and look at the tire ratings, but the real test is how do these things perform in the real world with real conditions.

 

[ChicagoSpyder]

:agree:with Peter.... currently the Best tire today is still the Vredestein Q-5 ( fronts 165/60-15 - rear 205/60 or 65 -15 ) ..... others are OK but stay away from the Kumho, quite a few folks here have re-ported they loose WET traction at about 12-15,000 mi. and even tho you may not ride much in the rain ..... that's when you really need traction ...... Mike :thumbup:

Overnighted in La Crosse, WI Saturday, yesterday morn was rain RT. 33 to La Valle great road and my 6000 mile Kenda wasn't up to the task tire spinning on soft third gear shifts, let's not talk about dead stops and all the great curves in Wildcat State Park. The last 30 miles Hustiford to West Bend WI was 54F and a cold ass rain, wanted to hammer it back but 45-60 was at the limit.

I was talking about changing the tires out last fall as they were already just about at the wear indicator, and after Saturday they were bald in the center, just junk.

If BuRP wasn't so greedy they would have just fit these Spyder's with a more common size tire from day one.

 

[pidjones]

Back when the GL1800 GoldWing was in development, Honda gave specs to Bridgestone and Dunlop to develop tires for it - sight unseen. This was told to us at a GoldWing rally by Dunlop engineers at a Q&A session. Now, Bridgestone and Dunlop have obtained test bikes since and developed several new tires for the GL1800 as well as Avon, Metzler, Continental and even (briefly) Shinko. If all of that development went into keeping GoldWingers happy, you would think that Kenda and others would "get with it".

 

[UtahPete]

It is not a technical issue, and the money aspect is secondary. It's a regulatory issue. Every tire manufactured for sale in the US must comply with the NHTSA regulations for vehicle tires. One of the requirements is the tire manufacturer cannot sell a tire for a particular use unless they have tested and certified it as suitable for that particular use, hence the letter P or LT, meaning Passenger vehicle or Light Truck in the tire designation. The words on the side of the Kenda do mean something. They mean the tire is designed and tested as suitable for use on a Can Am. Same with Slingshots. Suitable for use is why some tires are labeled "Not for highway use" or "Special Trailer".

It's a money issue in that I'll bet most tire companies do not see a sufficiently large market with Spyder owners to justify the cost of certifying their tires for Spyder use, so they don't market them. What we do not know is if there is in the archives of the major tire companies test data or engineering analysis that shows car tires really are not suited for light weight vehicles. Our experience shows CTs work very well, but none of us has the expertise or test data (not usage data) to unequivocally prove that CTs work great for Spyders. And for all we know BRP may have engineering or test data that shows CT are, or are not, ideal for Spyders. And you can be sure when the Spyder was initially being developed it was a lot easier to let Kenda tackle the engineering of tires than for BRP to do it. The big name tire companies probably wouldn't give BRP the time of day let alone seriously discuss providing tires.

:agree: