Can Am - Great Ideas vs. Poor Execution. What are your thoughts?

[oldguyinTX]

What law or regulation caused that to happen?

Uh, maybe emissions requirements, which throttle horsepower, mileage requirements, which also throttle horsepower. Those good 'ole GM V8's & Mopar Hemi's sucked gas like crazy, and 5,00 pound land yachts got maybe 8-10 mpg going downhill with a tailwind. But hey, who cared? There were no emissions regulations, no CAFE regulations, and gas was stupid cheap. Getting the picture?

 

[oldguyinTX]

It's an aftermarket add-on, but it's available.
https://thekneeslider.com/r18-reverse-trike-kit-for-the-honda-gold-wing-gl1800-and-f6b/

.

Yeah, that one and some others are out there, but stupid expensive. And who warranties what? What about dealer support? Not that BRP is great in that department. Just my opinion, but a ground up design beats a conversion kit.

 

[UtahPete]

Uh, maybe emissions requirements, which throttle horsepower, mileage requirements, which also throttle horsepower. Those good 'ole GM V8's & Mopar Hemi's sucked gas like crazy, and 5,00 pound land yachts got maybe 8-10 mpg going downhill with a tailwind. But hey, who cared? There were no emissions regulations, no CAFE regulations, and gas was stupid cheap. Getting the picture?

Yeah, I get the picture. When you don't understand why industry isn't producing the outdated product you lust after, blame government regulations.

 

[chipveres]

Name 2 instances of "engineers cutting corners to hold down the price".

I don't think engineers do that. I think they design the optimum solution and then accounting costs that out, and Marketing figures out what the final machine will sell for. If the C-suite demands a greater gross profit margin, then it's back to engineering to figure out where they can use an acceptable alternative solution without compromising safety, performance or marketability.

I'd say they did a pretty good job of it. Which is why we 'love' our Spyders, right?

The dealer service after the sale is the problem, not incompetent dastardly engineers.

In addition to what Peter Aawen already posted, plastic sway bar links? You have got to be kidding me.

 

[UtahPete]

In addition to what Peter Aawen already posted, plastic sway bar links? You have got to be kidding me.

Have they failed? Are they causing issues? Why is this "engineers cutting corners to save money"?

 

[Pirate]

I think the Mark Twain quote applies to any future response....

 

[Peter Aawen]

Have they failed? Are they causing issues? Why is this "engineers cutting corners to save money"?

YES! And YES!! :yikes:

Quite a few years ago now, the plastic sway bar ends on my then still largely factory spec 2013 RT Ltd began to flex badly as the Child Bride & I were riding the early stages along what is probably one of the most iconic Motorcycle Riding & Car Driving Roads in Australia, the 150 mile long Great Ocean Road (look it up! It makes the Tail of the Dragon pale into insignificance! ) making it very uncomfortable to ride and impossible to enjoy any of the corners and scenery we had chosen to that particular road to experience. I HAD no safe choice but to slow significantly, tentatively making our way as we lurched thru every corner, and trying to avoid creating too much of a rolling road-block for all the other motorists trying to enjoy the road and the scenery as we cautiously wound our way along what should have been one of the high points and most enjoyable couple of days of riding on our trip. :banghead:

Instead, it became somewhat of a nightmare due to those cheap and flimsy excuses for sway bar end links, and we were less than 1/2 of the way thru when one of the end links failed completely, snapping completely as we were half way thru one of the tightest and most difficult to negotiate curves on the whole route, with increasingly impatient traffic banking up behind us, a sheer drop into the then raging Southern Ocean on one side and a solid granite cliff face on the other side of the unceasing flow of traffic going the other way! :shocked: There were a few real pucker moments leading up to it, but that moment of suddenly lurching sideways really proved to both of us, AND the occupants of all the vehicles in sight, that adrenalin truly is brown! :yikes: The Nanny does work fantastically tho! hyea:

Those bloody cheap pieces of **** Sway bar end links could very well have killed us, AND taken out a bunch of other road users as well!! :cus: And I've since discovered that almost EVERY Spyder I've inspected that EVER gets ridden with any exuberance and still has the OEM Sway Bar End Links fitted shows evidence in the form of stress marks & color changes/other indications that their end links are flexing too, quite a few of them already near to breaking, some already broken - in fact, very few Spyders that've done more than just a few nominal miles don't have some indications that their end links haven't at least started this flexing that ultimately will end in failure! And until their attention is drawn to this, many riders are completely oblivious to anything more than their mild worries about the Spyder's mild wandering & instability as they ride! :lecturef_smilie:

So the answers to the first two questions you posed above are, in my mind at least, quite a resounding YES and YES!! As for the third question, instead of more rant from me, why don't you tell us all how on this Earth you believe it's NOT?! :dontknow: :gaah:

 

[UtahPete]

Well, that's interesting. I stand corrected. The Can-Am engineers are incompetent nincompoops. What will they think of next?

 

[Peter Aawen]

Well, that's interesting. I stand corrected. The Can-Am engineers are incompetent nincompoops. What will they think of next?

As the title of the thread suggests, Pete, they've got some great ideas, just for some reason (possibly bean counters?? :dontknow: ) those ideas are often poorly executed!

And the thing that really gets to me is that BRP/Can-Am persist in using US, their customers, the people whose money and ongoing business keeps their company alive, as their crash test dummies, but they don't/won't in any way that we are doing this, frequently ignoring FOR DECADES our complaints about sub-par performance... and because they have a monopoly on these things, THEY KEEP ON DOING IT, year after year, time and time again, and we have little choice but to fix this stuff on our dime, or put up with what really are pretty basic shortfalls! :cus:

 

[UtahPete]

As the title of the thread suggests, Pete, they've got some great ideas, just for some reason (possibly bean counters?? :dontknow: ) those ideas are often poorly executed!

And the thing that really gets to me is that BRP/Can-Am persist in using US, their customers, the people who's money and ongoing business keeps their company alive, as their crash test dummies, but they don't/won't in any way that we are doing this, frequently ignoring FOR DECADES our complaints about sub-par performance... and because they have a monopoly on these things, THEY KEEP ON DOING IT, year after year, time and time again, and we have little choice but to fix this stuff on our dime, or put up with what really are pretty basic shortfalls! :cus:

I just think that it's the people in the C-suite that make those decisions, not the designers, engineers, accountants and production managers who also cringe at being part of making something that could be so much better. I really hate to see good, hard-working wage slaves get blamed for executive decisions.

 

[2dogs]

Oh yes, I forgot about those plastic BRP heim links. Shortly after I got my 14 RT I was at a rally and met a gentleman who was just recovering from injuries sustained in a crash on his spyder caused by broken OEM plastic heim links. He showed a photo of his crash and mangled spyder and then showed me the new one he was riding, compliments of BRP after they lost a civil law suite.

 

[troop]

If Honda (Kawasaki/Yamaha/Suzuki) built one, they would come ....

 

[bikerbillone]

Must be something going on with OEM sway bars, Baha Ron keeps on selling the upgrade, making riders happy.

 

[bobfeeney]

agree

 

[SLICE]

If Honda (Kawasaki/Yamaha/Suzuki) built one, they would come ....

Apple car play.?

Tire shredding performance.

 

[oldguyinTX]

Oh yes, I forgot about those plastic BRP heim links. Shortly after I got my 14 RT I was at a rally and met a gentleman who was just recovering from injuries sustained in a crash on his spyder caused by broken OEM plastic heim links. He showed a photo of his crash and mangled spyder and then showed me the new one he was riding, compliments of BRP after they lost a civil law suite.

I find it interesting that the gentleman divulged that BRP replaced his Spyder. I wonder if BRP was forced by verdict to give him a new Spyder, in which case the order would be a matter of public record, or if they settled prior to a trial, which most certainly result in his having to sign a gag order which would not be a matter of public record. I had some dealings with BRP that resulted in my having to sign one, which required me to never divulge anything about it in any way, shape, form or fashion, including verbally disclosing the terms of the settlement, or they would sue the living daylights out of me.

 

[ARtraveler]

I find it interesting that the gentleman divulged that BRP replaced his Spyder. I wonder if BRP was forced by verdict to give him a new Spyder, in which case the order would be a matter of public record, or if they settled prior to a trial, which most certainly result in his having to sign a gag order which would not be a matter of public record. I had some dealings with BRP that resulted in my having to sign one, which required me to never divulge anything about it in any way, shape, form or fashion, including verbally disclosing the terms of the settlement, or they would sue the living daylights out of me.

Only the "shadow" knows. :bowdown:

 

[2dogs]

I find it interesting that the gentleman divulged that BRP replaced his Spyder. I wonder if BRP was forced by verdict to give him a new Spyder, in which case the order would be a matter of public record, or if they settled prior to a trial, which most certainly result in his having to sign a gag order which would not be a matter of public record. I had some dealings with BRP that resulted in my having to sign one, which required me to never divulge anything about it in any way, shape, form or fashion, including verbally disclosing the terms of the settlement, or they would sue the living daylights out of me.

It's been nearly ten years now since I spoke to the man. As I remember he showed no animosity toward BRP and seemed quite satisfied with his new spyder. As I recall at the time it was my impression that he had someone assist him through his recovery process but who and how that took place, I didn't ask. As he showed his photos to another person nearby I heard the phrase "lemon law" mentioned but paid no further attention. Two people in my county, one a close friend, took Harley Davidson to court over the lemon law and both were offered two options. One was to buy back the problem tri glide and the other was an attempt to repair the problem along with a substantial rebate. That process was recorded and no gag order was issued. But that was an HD case, not BRP.