BRP got it made

[billybovine]

I have a 2013 ST Limited so I will share my experiences. Currently have 13000 kms (8000 mi) on the odometer. During the week mostly short trip riding and on the weekends going a full tank of gas without stopping is not unusual.
Rider comfort.
Right leg is a lot cooler on the ST as compared to my 09 GS before putting the Spyderpops heat control items and similar but still cooler after. Upper body is about the same as the GS except when stopped in traffic because of the heat rising out of the vents around the handle bars. When moving air is being drawn in this same vent so heat not an issue. Left leg was brutal hot. It felt like a volcano vent coming out from under the seat and I found it extremely uncomfortable on hot days. The body panels on the left very hot to the touch. The gas cap is very hot, could not hang on to it for very long with bare hands.
Heat control.
I added foam rubber under the body panels to block the air from exiting the body work under the seat. First I was only going to seal the left side because I wanted to stop the hot air on my left leg. Because it started to come out that some were having trouble with melted MC’s I assumed the relatively cooler air coming out the right side of the seat would do more good going down over the MC than coming out under the seat.
My comfort was greatly improved. No more hot air on the left leg. The left body panels behind the foam block are cooler to the touch and as a surprise to me the body panels in front of foam block was cooler to the touch. The gas cap was cooler to the touch. Now I still find it a bit hot under some conditions, but it is much better. As an experiment I went riding in shorts one day. That is not something I normally do. It was 85 degrees and sunny that day and found it not too bad except when I got into stopped traffic due to road construction. When I got home I measured temperature of the left body panel just in front of the seat and it was 105 degrees F.
MC recall result.
At a little less than 12000 kms (7000 mi) I had the recall completed. The dealer found no melted or damaged parts.
Problems reported by other owners.
Faults or codes due to heat I have not had any.
Rear cylinder running lean I have never checked the plug color. So I just don’t know.
Smell of gas. I have never had this problem with my ST and it is always parked in the garage. I did have this issue with my GS from time to time.
Makes the garage hot. Of course it does, but no different than my GS did. This is subjective of course because I did not think of it as a problem.
Shudders when taking off. Yes my ST does this when cold only. When I back out of the garage it will do it. When I take off on the street it will do it again. When I get to the stop sign a half a block away it will take off smoothly. It did not do this when new.
Boiling gas. I have never noticed this either before or after adding the foam.
Stalling. It did do this 4 or 5 times and only during idle when started cold. Has not done this recently.
Conclusions
A lot of what I have said is subjective but I tried to be as accurate and honest as possible. For me heat is no longer an issue. The recall has fixed the chance melting bits and the foam I added has improved my comfort. It is also obvious that others experiences are different. In no way do I want my experience to belittle the problems others are having. It is my opinion that there is more than one cause to the problems ST owners are experiencing. When there are multiple causes it can be very hard to find the solutions.

 

[Cruzr Joe]

I am not Roger (and he is thankful for that) but I can address your question as far as heat on the right foot is concerned. Heat on the right foot has been discussed ever since the first GS hit the road. The radiator air flow exhausts on the right side, ahead of the rider, and travels back to reach the occupants under certain conditions. All motorcycles put out heat, and all water cooled motorcycle have radiators that put out heat. Most are located ahead of the rider and affect the rider in some way. It bothers some people and not others.

There are a lot of reasons for this, and I probably won't touch on them all, but here are a few. First may be what you wear to ride. A person in flip-flops is going to feel more heat that a person wearing heavy knee socks and insulated 10" riding boots. If a person holds his/her feet against the bodywork that person will feel more heat than a person that splays his/her feet outward. If you hold the ball of your foot on the footpeg you will feel less heat than the persond that hooks his heel on the peg so his foot is farther forward. If you have footboards or higway pegs your feet or legs may be in the direct path of the radiator exhaust, so it will certainly be hotter than what is felt on the footpegs. If you ride in a very hot climate or in stop-and-go traffic your cooling fan will run and blow hot air out, making it hotter than riding at a brisk pace to move the air through the radiator with the fan off. Havng the sun beat down on the right foot will make it hot, too...this is an open vehicle. Some people are also just more sensitive to the heat than others. As you can see, there are numerous variables.

Finally, I think riders new to motorcycles have a harder time adjusting to the inevitable heat a motorcycle produces. We seem to hear from them, or from riders that haven't ridden in years, than we do the veteran riders. I cannot fully explain why there is so much variation in the heat felt on the 2013's in other places, although some of these factors are present there also. I cannot explain why some 2013 engines are running hotter than others, or why some have heat damaged master cylinders or evap canisters while others are intact. I cannot explain why the 2013 RT's and ST's alone show these symptoms. Those are separate problems with separate solutions. The right side heat is universal, however, and it's variation does seem to lie in riding habits and conditions.

Very well put, i would like to add a little insight, at 3,500 miles when i had some work done on my 2013, before the MC recall was "official" we checked the MC and did not see any melting. At 8,000 miles i did the recall and we found that it was really melting and probably not far from failing, it is now fixed.


I believe that there is a difference in the heat problem related to the MC than the comfort heat problems, i had one but not the other, I don't know why.


Cruzr Joe

 

[ARtraveler]

Not much more I can add that has not already been said.

BRP must find a solution to solve all the heat issues that owners are experiencing. I do not believe that they can possibly ignore the 2013's issues--EVEN IF--the 2014's turn out to be perfect in every way. That is still to be determined.

I do agree that the fix currently going on is a "band aid issue" and is not going to answer everyones problems. I see people with many miles experience on :spyder2:'s grow more frustrated every day. A far cry from what people were saying a year ago at this very same time.

It would be nice to see answers happening, but this process is going way to slow for a lot of us. The brand could be in danger if the problems are not solved--and quickly.

 

[Bob Denman]

The only Spyder with over 100k mentioned was Doc's and 3 engines and a host of other replacements.....

Jim (Spyderjockey) is getting perilously close... He's at 92,000 now; and counting! :thumbup: :clap: :firstplace:

 

[flamingobabe]

Jim (Spyderjockey) is getting perilously close... He's at 92,000 now; and counting! :thumbup: :clap: :firstplace:

Good for him....I would love to see several Spyders reach touring mileage of 100k.....that is my goal....100k +++ would be even better

 

[Bob Denman]

I have no doubt that you'll get it on your bike... whatever it turns out to be! :2thumbs:
(Thinking about the temperature sensor; could Mark put some heat shielding under and behind it to keep the heat away? :shocked

 

[NancysToy]

I am not a plant, i have 8,000 miles on my 13 since mid april, no heat issues as a rider, mc was melting but dealer has fixed it and i am riding again still no heat issues, usualy 250 mile daily trips, oh, i dont work for BRP or any of their affiliates either

Cruzr Joe


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I do beg to respectfully differ with you. If your Spyder melted the master cylinder or evap canister, it does have a heat problem. Whether or not that heat problem is apparent to any individual rider depends on a host of factors, however. What you have is "no noticeable heat problem", but the problem still exists.

 

[stewartj239]

i think the people that say they dont have heat problems just dont ride in long enough stints to get the bike hot .either that or they work for BRP and plant themselves in here to post good things about their products .i call those people "plants " and they are on a lot of forums . also , to some people a long ride is 100 miles with a break every 25 miles .it is pretty much impossible for some of these bikes to heat up and some not to .underneath the hood , they are all the same .and they all have been recalled , not just the ones that heat up .

Nope. I don't work for BRP. Nope. I'm not having the heat problems. My riding has been both short runs as well as long rides. I can't explain it, but I am not complaining. However, I am planning to make some preventative changes to dissipate the heat that I do have.

 

[Sny]

I told her to leave the key in it when it is parked out by the road..... problem solved!!! :yes:..... but I don't know that someone could figure out how to start the Spyder:gaah: LOL

Leave it running....

and with printed instructions to please make sure it's unrecoverable with $100 taped to it.

 

[wyliec]

i think the people that say they dont have heat problems just dont ride in long enough stints to get the bike hot .either that or they work for BRP and plant themselves in here to post good things about their products .i call those people "plants " and they are on a lot of forums . also , to some people a long ride is 100 miles with a break every 25 miles .it is pretty much impossible for some of these bikes to heat up and some not to .underneath the hood , they are all the same .and they all have been recalled , not just the ones that heat up .

What would you say is a fair assessment of the number of continuous miles or time you drive your spyder before you feel the heat that others have complained about?

 

[Sny]

There is a relatively cheap and much more accurate way of determining heat comparisons. For $25.99 on sale Harbor Freight http://www.harborfreight.com/ sells an infrared thermometer that measures the heat of watever you point it at. Do the ride then take readings at the same point on both bikes, and you will get the answer. It could also be used to measue the temp at areas where you may come in contact with the bike. If say the gas cap is measured and is at a teperature great enough to burn skin (I do not know what temp that is) then the heat issue becomes a safety issue. This will bring it to the top of the company's list of concerns, since in some states the lemon laws can be used for unrecosileable safety issues.

Been there done that. My wife's 2009GS reads no more than 100F at the gas cap. My 2013 on the same day after riding on the same interstate at the same speed for the same time read 190F.

Anything over 120F will burn you in 5 minutes. 130F will burn you in 30 seconds. 140F in 6 seconds. Half a second at 160F. 1/8th of a second at 180F. Water boils at 212F. Meat cooks at 250F.

What is a good temp for your gas cap to be at?

But I can deal with surface heat. I can deal with having to wear gloves to open the gas cap. I can learn to not stand directly in the path of boiling fuel should it choose that moment to spew. I have learned to not put my helmet on the handlebars so it doesn't melt the glue that holds it together.

But I can't protect all of the hoses and cables and engine components from damage. That's BRP's job. The 2013 Rotax 991 produces much more heat than the 2012 Rotax 991, BRP knows why, and they know what needs to be done to fix it.

The concern is that they're not inclined to do so, or tell us how to do so ourselves. I hope we're wrong.

 

[GeoffCee]

They make mistakes because they innovate.

BRP frequently get caught out with faults that their customers are first to discover so the company is obliged to play catch-up, inventing fixes in a hurry, the 2013 "solution" to excessive heat/fire risk is a case in point. It sounds simplistic to suggest that BRP should do more critical testing rather than leaving it to their customers to find the problems. Innovation is great but IMO faults should found and corrected before the product is released to the public, even if that means delaying the launch of a new product line. Most people are enthusiastic about the 2014 line up. On BRP's past record I would hold back from buying a year, or even two, until the problems have surfaced and been sorted. :sour:

 

[ThreeWheels]

I suspect the heat issue is caused by a mix'n'match approach to the 2013's.
From what I gather, the 2013 is a 2012 mechanical setup in a 2014 frame.
The new 2014 Spyders have the radiators located in a completely new location, eliminating the heat from the source, so the 2014 mechanicals are less prone to seeing the heat.
I wonder if it would be possible to relocate the radiators on the 2013's to match the new design ?
If so, clearly this would be a better, but far more costly approach.

Just my opinion. I could be wrong.

After SpyderQuest, I'm beginning to think that I should stick with my 2010, since I have all the bugs worked out.

 

[Bob Denman]

I think that's why they changed the bodywork on the 2014s; to make the radiators fit up under the snout...
Speaking of the 2013s that are having issues; has anybody yet taken a look at moving air from the LEFT side of the bike down through the Tuperware?
What if you put a blockoff plate in front of the grille, and made sure that the re-directed air flowed rearward into the bowe,s of the bike? :dontknow:
(You'd have to put the belly pans back in place...)

 

[Sny]

None of this explains why the motor puts out so much more heat tho. It's the same engine as the 2012s and it's creating more heat that needs to be managed by the cooling system and air flow. Not just a little bit more. Orders of magnitude more.

In all likeliness they just need to set the fuel map back to what is was for the 2012's. Why should 2013 owners be stuck adding foil and cutting blow holes to try and manage heat that shouldn't be there?

 

[Bob Denman]

Are you sure that it's the engine creating that much more heat? Have you taken a plug reading yet? :dontknow:

 

[Mets79ST2013]

BRP

I agree what about forming a committe and meeting with BRP ALONG WITH A PETITION OF UNHAPPY 2013 SPYDER OWNERS.

I'm in, I think if we want something done we need to get together as one.

 

[flamingobabe]

How's this for a lean...hot running engine

 

[Bob Denman]

:shocked:
That's a...

 

[boborgera]

View attachment 76570How's this for a lean...hot running engine

Lean,? It looks like that plug isn't getting fuel... :shocked: