Boiling fuel, hot legs & feet, melted boot glue & passive limp home modes

[NancysToy]

Not sure how you "reverse engineer" something by guessing wildly. Do you suggest cutting holes randomly into expensive bodywork on a whim? How are you going to monitor the results? Sorry, lots of guessing has gotten everyone almost nowhere during the life of the beast. It is time for testing and solid math and physics. That being said, the limitaions of available space and the necessary shape due to the configuration of the Spyder, make it an uphill battle. A naked Spyder may be the best solution, I'm afraid...but I wouldn't wear shorts riding that one.

 

[Bob Denman]

I call that, "Seat of the pants" engineering...
Guessing? More of a hunch...
Monitoring the results is pretty easy; take it out on the road and see what has changes...

Now... All of this is REAL easy for the guy who doesn't have any perceived heat issues with his bike... pps:
But I still will maintain that increasing the airflow through the enine compartment, and out the back of the bike will help.
(IF you can get the exhaust system to join in the dance!)

 

[Spyder Smyles]

I ryde a 2013 RT-S bought it in December and didn't really notice a heat problem during the cold months, however now that I am riding in 90 - 100 degree weather I am burning up. The inside of my thighs actually had burn marks on them after riding 70 miles this past Sunday. I pulled the bike into the garage, shut it off and went back to check on it 3 hours later and the seat was still extremely hot, this has me very concerned for my safety. My husband has taken the bike apart and discovered that the exhuast pipes run right under the gas tank which is right under my legs. Neither of the pipes are wrapped so he plans on wrapping them to see if that will help. He is also going to add a heat shield on each side. We leave Saturday for a trip to South Carolina so I sure hope this works. I love my Spyder but riding with so much heat on my legs/seat is taking a lot of the fun out of riding.....

 

[shelbydave]

However, reducing the pressure by removing the cap could result in boiling... what does one do when you need gas? the cap has to come off to keep traveling

Sorry if that got under your skin... That was a simple physics fact, not meant as a suggestion by any means....

Boiling fuel will happen, but it should be the exception, and not the rule. So, with that in mind, the following needs to be answered...

Is it on the 2013s more than the previous models?
If 2013, which models? Do RT owners see it as much as ST owners? What about the RS?

If it is the 2013s in general, I'm sure we can determine what changes were made that may cause this.
If it is mainly in the ST, then that needs to be communicated back to BRP, as I would consider it a design flaw.

Maybe we could gather some data to see if we can see a pattern?

 

[chris56]

I have 18.500 mls on my 2010 RT - not really a problem with the heat - it does not get hotter than my ex BMW RT - my tip is : if its too hot just take the next wountain road to cool her a little ..we made it last week !!

 

[Jeriatric]

Vindication?

Having asked about the 13's and any noticeable correction of heat issues last year. I recall being brushed off, almost derided.

Temps in the 60's while wearing winter attire is simply not real world testing for heat issues. And, if they were tested in a high temp area. How did they miss what so many now know is a problem.

Curious, disappointed, and as you might expect, undiplomatic.

 

[Bob Denman]

I do believe that the hue and cry for change in growing... :thumbup:
But that takes time... :gaah:
We really need our backyard wizards to take a look at this, and let us know what works...

 

[shelbydave]

Vindication?

Having asked about the 13's and any noticeable correction of heat issues last year. I recall being brushed off, almost derided.

Temps in the 60's while wearing winter attire is simply not real world testing for heat issues. And, if they were tested in a high temp area. How did they miss what so many now know is a problem.

Curious, disappointed, and as you might expect, undiplomatic.

Considering our exposure to the '13s started late September, with deliveries coming later than that, any "answers" from users on this forum last year would have been pure speculation at best. It's too bad you felt that way because you didn't get an answer to a question that probably nobody was qualified to answer.

 

[MidLifeCrisis]

They did a huge disservice by making the splash pans on the 13s unremovable. That definitely make a mess of the block off plate solution. They then seem to have followed up with the swallowing the swoop area, which blows the air right into the fin harder and right back on the riders foot..... With even more intensity than the previous years! Not sure where they were going with that "fix".


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[Tierhog]

Perhaps the lack of fog lights on the RS models is a good thing? Can't you lift the 2013s up and find a way to remove the bottom panel? It can't be permanent....must be a way, somehow, someway.

 

[Jeriatric]

Considering our exposure to the '13s started late September, with deliveries coming later than that, any "answers" from users on this forum last year would have been pure speculation at best. It's too bad you felt that way because you didn't get an answer to a question that probably nobody was qualified to answer.

There ya go.

 

[Bob Denman]

But now that we're getting enough warm weather to find out what needs to be done... :dontknow:
I think that answers will be found much quicker by us! :2thumbs:

 

[Ga Blue Knight]

They did a huge disservice by making the splash pans on the 13s unremovable. That definitely make a mess of the block off plate solution. They then seem to have followed up with the swallowing the swoop area, which blows the air right into the fin harder and right back on the riders foot..... With even more intensity than the previous years! Not sure where they were going with that "fix".


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Well of BRP thought the heat problem was not enough heat they certainly fixed it! There is definitely something amiss with the 2013 design for heat loss. Those on 2012 and older have had issues but not to degree described above.

 

[asp125]

Before they had wind tunnels and smoke generators, they rode around or flew their biplanes with tufts of yarn to see where the air goes. I propose someone adds yarn all over their spyder and videos them going down the road so we can see where the airflow goes.

 

[Ga Blue Knight]

It might also do exactly the opposite, "stuffing" the air into the opening with nowhere to exit, and making things worse. It could also just be ineffective, due to ground effects which limit air flow underneath. I might add that heat flows upward, not naturally downward, the splash pans probably don't affect the gas tank area much. No way to know the results without computer or wind tunnel analysis. BTW, the splash pans on the 2013s are not readily removeable.

But of course you may be right. What I remember from College Physics is not much but the thought was that cool air flowing underneath the Spyder with splash pans removed, and with the Air box and throttle body resonator gone would create enough turbulence in the engine compartment to reduce the heat build up in the upper reaches by the gas tank. Wrapping the exhaust pipes and removing the Catalytic Converter would also go a long way. Unfortunately there is most likely no one thing but a host of things that need to be done, ie back to the drawing board!

 

[asp125]

More than likely you will need two ways to cool a Spyder. One would be redirection of airflow while moving to evacuate the hot air and exhaust heat away from the rider (using scoops, ducts, etc), the other would be to reduce convection transfer while stopped (reflective foil, ceramic coating or wrapping headers)

 

[Ga Blue Knight]

:agree:100%

 

[MidLifeCrisis]

Before they had wind tunnels and smoke generators, they rode around or flew their biplanes with tufts of yarn to see where the air goes. I propose someone adds yarn all over their spyder and videos them going down the road so we can see where the airflow goes.

Frightening, but I actually did this around the lower port, before I came up with my fix (RT Dragon Slayer Post). Sometimes, a guy has to risk looking like a dope to get things done. I did limit my travels to night time though....


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[OldDog]

Wind tunnel time?

Not sure how you "reverse engineer" something by guessing wildly. Do you suggest cutting holes randomly into expensive bodywork on a whim? How are you going to monitor the results? Sorry, lots of guessing has gotten everyone almost nowhere during the life of the beast. It is time for testing and solid math and physics. That being said, the limitaions of available space and the necessary shape due to the configuration of the Spyder, make it an uphill battle. A naked Spyder may be the best solution, I'm afraid...but I wouldn't wear shorts riding that one.

:agree: I agree with your comments. Some air flow studies are in order. With positive air pressure at the intake cowl and negative pressure via a forced air exhaust fan under the cat area it seems a reasonable airflow could be achieved. Could the cat converter be incorporated into the muffler pipe and be outside the body? It has a large radiant surface, I believe. The steel fuel tank is a great heat receptor, being where it is. Hence the boiling fuel. Putting the exhaust headers outside the skin and a tupperware redesign may be in order. This should be a major BRP R&D exercise, ya think? Comments :chat:

 

[asp125]

If you squint at the Spyder or look at it without glasses, our configuration is much like the front end of a formula one racer. In the off season I should crawl under the Spyder and see if there's a way to install some race car styled diffusers to manage the negative pressure. I think maybe the bumpskid / under tray could be modified it could draw air out.

Hmm.. some winglets on the A-arms, other aero bits... maybe a big sprint car wing! :yikes:

Are there any computational fluid dynamicists in the house?