BajaRon...BRP update?

[BajaRon]

I'm going through it too.

I feel your pain...:banghead:

 

[BajaRon]

Ah, ha... the real story. He probably broke it to begin with. :joke:

.

I'm probably going to get into trouble for that one. Used to be I could trust him not to check on the board while he was away (like he's leaving tomorrow for some little paint project or something).

But now he's got that I-Phone and he'll be the all seeing eye from now on!

 

[baldev]

I'm probably going to get into trouble for that one. Used to be I could trust him not to check on the board while he was away (like he's leaving tomorrow for some little paint project or something).

But now he's got that I-Phone and he'll be the all seeing eye from now on!

I would have called in the lemon law atty on this and got myself a new spydie. My bro in law had his VW in for repairs in Tampa and by the third week when they had a problem fixing it he refused to accept even tho they had given him a rental. Got an atty involved and he had it replaced. His VW was 4 months old. There is probably more to this but I cannot see any reason BRP would not go same route. You are a very patient man.

 

[BajaRon]

I would have called in the lemon law atty on this and got myself a new spydie. My bro in law had his VW in for repairs in Tampa and by the third week when they had a problem fixing it he refused to accept even tho they had given him a rental. Got an atty involved and he had it replaced. His VW was 4 months old. There is probably more to this but I cannot see any reason BRP would not go same route. You are a very patient man.

My perspective is that there isn't really much wrong with my Spyder. And I have it pretty much set up the way I like it.

So, my Power Steering doesn't work. I've put 7,600 miles on it like that. Granted, it was hard to steer and now that I know there is a problem I intend to get it fixed.

I don't think my Spyder is a lemon. I believe my steering problem is a minor, easily resolved issue. Instead, I think I have lack of Dealer committment/poor BRP interface with dealer/questionable Parts availabilty/untrained Tech/and service manager with changing stories problems.

If I ride their hide more than I am I'm afraid I'll just get more of the same. If I get a new Spyder it won't fix any of the person problems I'm having.

So, it's back to Wal-Mart for another case of opcorn: and then to Lowe's for another pallet of :banghead:. Then in my spare time I'll practice my :bdh: technique!

 

[BLOOPE]

To those who are interested.

Here is the time line of how BajaRon's repair/recalls went;
____________________________________________________
1-17-09 2:30 Saturday(parts cannot be ordered, for those who do not know. brp is closed)
--Unit brought in to us for cstmr complaint of the power steering not working as it should. Along with some "warranty bulletins".
____________________________________________________
1-20-09 1PM Tuesday.
--parts ordered for "warranty Bulletins"
---angle rotation sensor for "shifting improvement" 2009-1 campaign # 2008-0004; s/o #88108, part # 420266166. part recieved 2-10-09
---parking brake locking plate for "parking brake pedal" 2008-3 campaign # 2008-0003; s/o #n/a, part # 705600776. part recieved 1-20-09
---brake fluid reservoir cap for "b.f.r.c. replacement" 2008-2 campaign # 2008-0002 and also system code 06 40; s/o # 88107, part # 219800058. part recieved 1-23-09 ***On a side note, this unit fell out of the vin range for this bulletin. But we found the brake system pressure was below 508psi(avg) so we did that 6.0 hour job(flat rate/per brp) and replaced the caps. At this point, we are not sure can-am will even pay us for it since his vin range is out......just trying to take care of the customer......
-------For those who havent noticed, these 3 bulletins parts were ordered at the same time on the 20th. One part we had in stock. One came in in 3 working days. The last came in in 15 working days.
___________________________________________________
1-20-09 through 1-28-09
--Tech begins diagnosis of poor power steering function. I am not happy with how long it took to diagnos BUT this tech, along with all of us here, have to juggle multiple jobs. Trying to keep ALL our customers happy. Do I think he could have diagnosed this issue in one day with all the repairs/diagnoses he had on his plate at that time? NO! Nor could any tech. But I do think it could have been diagnosed within 3 days. Now that would have put us ordering parts on Friday 1-23-09 as opposed to 10:38am 1-29-09(diagnosis complete at the end of day 1-28-09 ergo parts ordered the morning of 1-29-09). That MAY have changed when we recieved parts, BUT if you read further it probably would not have.
-we DO have the B.U.D.S. program
-we DO have a working laptop
-we DO have trained techs
-we DO know what wires to use and to plug into
-we DID plug this unit into buds, and as someone has eluded to here already, it gives codes not fixes(of which, his unit had none). There still is some diagnosing to do.
------Now I will show you, that seem so interested in this flame fest, some pics of what is needed to diagnose the steering issue------

I am not going to take pics of the entire service manual. If you need more info into what is involved in diagnosing your spyders. I suggest buying your own.

Now here is the break down of when we ordered parts and when we recieved them. Like I did above on the warranty bulletins.
--seal. part # 293200113 part ordered 1-29-09. s/o # 88198. recieved 2-3-09
--steering position sensor. part # 709400363 part ordered 1-29-09. s/o # 88198. recieved 2-13-09
--encoder magnet. part # 709400362. part ordered 1-29-09. s/o # 88198. recieved 2-3-09. Again for those who didnt notice 2 of those parts we recieved in 2 working days. The sensor didnt get here for 11 working days.
*******Now out of all this bashing there was one little comment about this from BajaRon.....
and I quote, "Anyway, he said the dealer (Alcoa) is telling the truth. There was a "Glitch in the BRP system". Something about an error in the part number which showed "Out of StocK" when in reality the part WAS in stock. The BRP rep said the fault was on their end and not on the dealer's end. The BRP rep said the dealer had ordered the part when they said they did so I guess that is cleared up now. Chalk up 1 for the dealer."********
_____________________________________________
Now, there seems to be some confusion about the cost of parts??? Which I have a hard time understanding the concern. Seeing as none of these repairs will be a cost to BajaRon.
--So here is a break down of ALL the parts ordered for his unit(retail. I cannot post dealer cost)
-angle rotation sensor-94.99
-parking brake-9.99
-cap, brake-11.99
-seal-3.49
-steering pos. sens.-362.49
-encoder magnet-44.49
_____________________________________________
I have read multiple times, in these 3 threads and pages of responses, about some "magic part". I dont know what BajaRon or Lamonster are refering to. It is confusing to me also. MAYBE if they had expressed this confusion to me instead of starting the trash talk threads, I could have cleared this up. I feel sure it was not malicious, and whatever it is that they are thinking has happened, was some sort of mis-communication on our part. I will take responsibilty for that.....what ever it is......and would have EASILY cleared it up, I feel sure.
________________________________________________
Here is our FINAL act of support to BajaRon. Once we got the sensor installed(which had failed). Then we were able to find that the power steering pump had failed also. I checked with can-am yesterday morning and "they say" it is coming from canada and "is not" on back order. Seeing as how we have delt with these issues before, me and the sales manager decided to take a brand new SPYDER we have on the floor here and remove the pump from it. Now, of course, I am paying my tech twice for a job that can-am is going to pay me once for. The sales manager is trusting in me that I will have this unit back on the floor for him to sale soon. I'm truly suprised that the sales manager allowed me to help this customer after reading these posts himself!!!!!!

Here is the pic of the new unit we cannot sell until can-am gets THAT part to us;

In parting. here it is 2-19-09 about 3:30pm. I have been thinking about these threads that have been showed to me this morning. I feel a response is needed here, in defense of our dealership. Especially knowing me and the sales manager made a decision yesterday to even further take care of this customer who has never dawned our doors until warranty issues are needed to be taken care of(no services here and the unit was not purchased here).

I am calling BajaRon now to let him know his unit is washed and ready to go.


As far as Lamonsters comments about how we get parts. He has recieved an e-mail from the owner here about the owner's policies. I tried to make a compromise with lamonster to get the parts he wanted here. My statement was;
"You can give me your credit card # and I will put it on file and get the part on order. When the part gets here, I will call you and let you know. From that date, I will give you 2 weeks to have your unit here and allow us to perform the repair, WHILE YOU WAIT.(he will not have to come back for it) If after the 2 weeks you do not bring your unit in. Then, at that point, I will have to charge the part you wanted to the credit card."


Respectfully,
Ben Loope,
Service Manager,
Alcoa Good Times

 

[Degaman]

Any way you look at it, one month is way too long for a repair to take.

 

[BLOOPE]

Any way you look at it, one month is way too long for a repair to take.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

please read my entire post above before commenting. what i am defending here is not the time. i agree the time taken is too long. but as brp has stated and BajaRon has briefly posted, the fault is NOT on AGT!

 

[Degaman]

Don't be so defensive... I didn't place the blame on any one entity; just stating that nobody should be without their ride for an entire month.

 

[BLOOPE]

i will put the effort in on my side to try and watch this board as often as i can.

it is very important to me to be up front and honest with my personal life and here as a manager of the service department. we all are human and capable of mistakes(i have already had my one for the year:sour. but please give me and alcoa good times the opportunity to make it right before jumpin on a forum and blasting thoughts and feelings. i will try to bring the facts to the table as much as possible.

Ben Loope

 

[aubierules]

Don't be so defensive... I didn't place the blame on any one entity; just stating that nobody should be without their ride for an entire month.

:agree:

 

[aubierules]

I thought I made a mistake once, but I was wrong.....:doorag:

I bet that statement didnt come from smylin!

 

[Roaddog2]

BLOOPE-
Good of you to step up to the plate and explain how it is on your end. I wish more dealers would do the same. It is unfortunate that repairs have taken so long, but, no matter who's fault it is, a month is unacceptable in my book. BajaRon has shown great patience in my estimation. He's not the only one who has had to endure ridiculous amounts of downtime for things that should be a simple diagnosis and repair. I think BRP and their dealer network should be more forthcoming and keep the customer in the loop as you just did in your post, there would be a lot less flaming and uncertainty on the boards.

Also good to see that you're going out of your way to rectify the situation, even though the customer didn't purchase his Spyder from you originally. Shows that customer satisfaction is important at your shop...

Hope you continue to post here, we could use more input from the dealer level, and maybe some of the Spyder owner issues could be channeled back to BRP from the dealer level....:doorag:

:agree::agree:

 

[AMTJIM]

I apologize for any offensive remarks...looks like you(Alcoa) have a handle on it. I let the emotions of growing frustration over this machine be an all call for bashing.

 

[Lamonster]

In parting. here it is 2-19-09 about 3:30pm. I have been thinking about these threads that have been showed to me this morning. I feel a response is needed here, in defense of our dealership. Especially knowing me and the sales manager made a decision yesterday to even further take care of this customer who has never dawned our doors until warranty issues are needed to be taken care of(no services here and the unit was not purchased here).

I am calling BajaRon now to let him know his unit is washed and ready to go.


As far as Lamonsters comments about how we get parts. He has recieved an e-mail from the owner here about the owner's policies. I tried to make a compromise with lamonster to get the parts he wanted here. My statement was;
"You can give me your credit card # and I will put it on file and get the part on order. When the part gets here, I will call you and let you know. From that date, I will give you 2 weeks to have your unit here and allow us to perform the repair, WHILE YOU WAIT.(he will not have to come back for it) If after the 2 weeks you do not bring your unit in. Then, at that point, I will have to charge the part you wanted to the credit card."


Respectfully,
Ben Loope,
Service Manager,
Alcoa Good Times

I'm glad that Ron will be picking his Spyder up after 1 day short of 5 weeks at your shop. I guess we were going by how long it took Magic Man to have the exact same repair done on his Spyder (two days). I'm pretty sure his dealer had a few more jobs going too and two days is a great turnaround time on that type of repair. I think two weeks would have been plenty of time but if BRP screwed up on the part numbers there was nothing you could do about it.

I will say that just because we weren't a current customer with a long history with AGT doesn't make us any less of a BRP Spyder customer. We bought our Spyders in Tampa over a year ago because there were no dealers in East TN. When you became a Spyder dealer I made it a point to stop by your shop and meet everyone there and grab a bunch of cards and Spyder pamphlets with AGT on it. I know of two direct sales that were a result of me spending time with these customers of yours and directing them to AGT, there may have been more that I didn't know about. Bottom line is you should treat all your customers with the same respect if they are a long time customer or a new customer. You only get one chance to make a first impression.

As far as Charlie's email goes he did explain that he did set the parts ordering policy and it was just as I said it was. I'll be glad to post that if you are looking to document this.

I could have ordered my warranty part from you then and I'm sure it would have been there by now but I still don't see why you wouldn't throw another part with the order you had coming seeing it hadn't shipped yet and you knew it was going to be covered by BRP. I don't recall you saying anything about changing it out while I wait either but I guess I could have missed that part.

I'm sure you're glad to get this out of your hair and I'm sure you hope you never see either of us again but bottom line is Ron was without his Spyder for 5 weeks, that seems like a long time to me.
Thanks for pulling the show bike down so Ron can make it to Bikeweek next week.:thumbup:

 

[jwfranklin]

Don't be so defensive... I didn't place the blame on any one entity; just stating that nobody should be without their ride for an entire month.

:agree::agree:

I don't know if it was Alcoa's fault or BRP's, but if it were me after a couple weeks I would have been at your shop raising heck, and if it was BRP's fault you should have been doing the same with them. I had a problem that was BRP's fault. My dealer contacted them, told them how upset I was, they contacted me. 4 days later problem was resolved.

 

[bjt]

I will say that just because we weren't a current customer with a long history with AGT doesn't make us any less of a BRP Spyder customer. We bought our Spyders in Tampa over a year ago because there were no dealers in East TN. When you became a Spyder dealer I made it a point to stop by your shop and meet everyone there and grab a bunch of cards and Spyder pamphlets with AGT on it. I know of two direct sales that were a result of me spending time with these customers of yours and directing them to AGT, there may have been more that I didn't know about. Bottom line is you should treat all your customers with the same respect if they are a long time customer or a new customer. You only get one chance to make a first impression.

I agree with this 100%. We went through a similar thing on a horse trailer that we bought across the state but wanted to get some work done at a local dealer. Because we didn't buy from them, we were treated like second class customers. What was quoted as two weeks for service turned into two an a half months of partial completion of different parts of the job and shoddy workmanship that wasn't fully discovered until we started having problems months after they had finally finished. On two seperate occasions, we left the trailer there from Monday morning until Friday afternoon to get the job completed only to find out on Friday that they just didn't around to working on our trailer that week. Needless to say, their communication with us was non-existant. To top it all of, my wife was treated rudely by the owners of the business. We never went back and will never go back.

 

[Magic Man]

You have got to be kidding me with that dealer response

My Spyder had the same problems as Ron's. The exact same from day one no prower steering no VSS lights or codes.

When I called my dealer and told him my P/S was not working my dealer contacted BRP ASAP. They told him to replace the P/S unit. My dealer then ordered the part (P/S unit) before he had me bring in the bike. When it came in they called me (in about 4 days), They then installed it the same day I left it off.

When that did not fix it. They got right on the horn with BRP and were told about the gear switch, and BUDs reflash. They overnighted in the switch and did it and the download the next day. Two days total start to finish.

This is 2009, there is no reason in hell that any repair should take 5 weeks for anything on a brand new bike period! I can get parts from downtown Tokyo to Albany in 48 hours! Parts from Canada do not take 5 weeks to come even regular UPS ground. If they really want, they can get these parts overnight from Canada for a "down" machine like this.

I don't care what anybody says, the dealer should have been calling and getting to the bottom of the parts delays long before 5 weeks.

If this happened in NY somebody would be getting a new Spyder under Lemon Law. Here time out of service for warranty can't exceed 30 days total over the life of the warranty in NY.

Also the remark that Ron "did not buy it there" just frosts it too! :yikes:

They were not even selling Spyders when you two bought your bikes! To say that like you passed them by when you bought your bikes, when they weren't even a dealer for these yet is nuts! :dontknow:

It's part of their dealer agreeement they signed when they took on the BRP line. They will HONOR the BRP warranty to all BRP customers. Sometimes you have to do warranty work on machines you did not sell, it's just part of the business.

I my opinion statements like that begin to show the real reson it took 5 weeks to fix this bike. The old "he did not buy it here it gets done when it gets done. He should be glad we're even fixing it for him" attitude shows in statements like that big time!

I'm glad it was not my Spyder this happened to, or I'd be writting this from a jail cell after reading the dealer's response!

Although, maybe we should start giving this kind of customer service here at NMN, what do you think? :dontknow:

Seems to work for these guys, as somehow they are still in business treating people like this on $17,000 machines? :shocked:

After being treated like this, I bet Ron and Lamont are going to run right down and buy their next Spyders from these guys for sure. I know I would! :shocked:

MM

 

[hondaman]

5 weeks,??wow I would not have a job if it took 5 weeks.
At my shop (not bikes or atvs).You bring in your car with the tranny out on monday I will order it that day and have it by tuesday 99% of the time.Sometimes on backorder.And I will install it that day and have it ready to pick up tuesday by 5.
On the dealers side .As for putting on parts untill it fixes the problem that cant happen anymore at my shop.im a tech and would love to put on the parts until it fixed.This is what happens,they will call back for parts all the time,if they see I am putting on parts that are not needed they will debit my dealer.And they will debit parts and labor!Then they will send there own people down if it keeps up and they will pick us apart.Well its not a cheap visit.I get customers say there tranny slips or whatever and want it replaced,they say its under warr.just replace it.I wish I could,if I cant get it to do it I cant just replace it.10 years ago yes,but not now.
As for BRP you need to get a fix for this problem now!!!!
this is a safety issue.The car manufacture I work for would allready have had a fix,and a safety recall long ago!
BRP Go and get a failed spyder,take it back it Canada,dont go home till u find the problem,and send out a recall!!!!!You designed it now fix it!!

 

[Magic Man]

Not trying to speak for anyone else, or take any sides here, but I think the dealer's point was that he went out of his way to borrow the part from a floorplan bike, rather than wait longer still for the part to arrive from BRP. I would hope it had nothing to do with performing warranty work on a bike purchased elsewhere....:dontknow:

Yea you are, and it's all B/S from this dealer! If your Harley dealer told you this about a warranty repair on your Road Glide you'd have flipped out! I know if our new 2009 SE Road Glide has a problems like this, HD will be all over it long before 5 weeks.

I have first hand seen HD buy a ticket for a seat on an airplane to same day fly a 110 engine to a SE customer in Myrtle Beach who's oil pump went south and blew his motor on his new SE Dyna.

Myrtle Beach Harley had it installed the next day, and the guy only missed 1 and a half days of the rally! This I know first hand as I had to re-install the lights I just put on before the motor blew for this guy after the engine swap. Less than 48 hours total for a engine replacement. Now that's customer service from both the company and the dealer!

I was the service director for my areas top line auto dealer for 10 years so I know how this all works first hand. We sold MB, BMW, Volvo, Honda, Range Rover and Jag. Warranty work and parts problems are part of the game when you are a dealer. Try dealing with Jag customers and companies form England for warranty work! Please don't dare think I am just and engineer who makes aftermarket parts and does not know the "'poor dealer's life" 5 weeks for this is all B/S from a dealer.

You seem to forget I'm not just second guessing the dealer here on their repair ehter. I HAD THE SAME PROBLEMS AND REPAIRS DONE TO MY OWN SPYDER IN TWO DAYS! End of story.

I don't care who they are or where they are from, having a customers bike down for 5 weeks for this repair is all B/S.

If you don't think much of this was because he did not buy the bike there, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell you too.

I just called and talked to my dealer this morning on this. He said that over this same 5 weeks they have had and repaired two other Spyders in their shop for the same problem. None of which took them 5 weeks to do ether. Paul said he has not had any problem getting these repair parts from BRP for these bikes ether.

What we have here is a case of "you lie and I'll swear to it" by both the dealer and BRP, as what else could BRP say.

If anybody thinks BRP would totally throw one of it's customers (aka dealer) under the bus and not try to help with a story to cover their customers butt, then you know nothing about how all of this works! The dealer is their real customer as they sell nothing direct to you or me it's sold to the dealer first, and they need to keep them buying like any other business would!

This is a one or 2 day repair tops! When Lamont went there with Ron weeks after they had the bike and saw them face to face, they found out nothing, yes nothing had really been done to the bike after all! Even though over the phone they said the repairs had been started, and the switch was already replaced. Lamont will back me up on this.

When they got there all that had been "really done" was "some OHM readings taken" nothing more, and the bike had been there for almost 3 weeks at that point.

That's when they told Lamont the story about what it would take to order his recall switch. That's one of the things that got Lamont so bent as they were just about to order Ron's that day but would not order his too. That was 3 weeks into it sitting there, 3 weeks!

If my Dealer can do my unit in two days and the next 2 he did in one day each and had no "parts problems," , sorry, but I'm going to believe the guy who really fixed two bikes in that time. Not a guy who has lame excuses as to why he could not even get one done.

I know everybody wants to "be nice" and that is all fine and good. But when you have had to almost make 2 payments on a bike while it sits in a repair shop, it's time to get "real" and call it like it is! This whole 5 week repair was total B/S!

I am sure they only pulled down the floor unit because of the bad press and pressure Lamont brought down on them with telling it like it is on the forum.

I know BRP watches the forum everyday, and I'm sure when they read the B/S they told Lamont, saying it was BRPs fault the phone started ringing at that dealer big time.

If any of you think "this is good service" on your Spyder I'm sure you can take your Spyder there for service anytime. Because with service like this, I bet they have a whole bunch of appointments available? Because my guess is repeat customers are rare. Don't think so? Just ask Lamont and Ron if they'll be back.

MM

 

[aubierules]

LOL- like that post the other night, half the time she's right, the other half I'm wrong.........:doorag:

ah the beauty of relationships with the fairer sex