Backfiring?

[SpyderQ]

i got almost 1,000 miles on my spyder and in the last hundred or so miles, whenever i let off the gas i get backfiring usually in the 3500 4500 rmp range. not too bad but definitely noticable. bike is stock and has no mods ( yet ) . just wondering if anyone is having this problem or if it's just me? thanks

 

[bjt]

Loud backfiring or the little pops? I get that little popping sound occasionally when I release the throttle and let the engine brake me but it is no different than the other bikes that I see on the road.

 

[patches]

Same here. Get little pops when downshifting for a stop. Never heard it starting out or at idle so I don't pay much attention to it. Stock for right now but putting on hindle this weekend, will let you know if it is still there.

 

[Danimal]

Could be bad gas... or too high octane.

Run plain old 87..... Spyder doesn't require anything more.... and the higher octane stuff can cause this to happen.

 

[Napalmseth]

I use 87 octane and get the occasional popping when i let the throttle down. Its not constant, but it does happen.

 

[bjt]

Yeah, like I said, I hear that from thousands of other Harleys, Hondas, Suzukis, etc.

 

[SpyderQ]

i run 87 oct and its a series of little pops. i know it normal on most bikes, especially if you worked the air and exhaust, but the only reason it concerns me is that it just developed and wasn't there from the start like it would be it was normal on the bike

 

[SpyderMark]

i run 87 oct and its a series of little pops. i know it normal on most bikes, especially if you worked the air and exhaust, but the only reason it concerns me is that it just developed and wasn't there from the start like it would be it was normal on the bike

Sounds like your baby is finally growing up... er... breaking in. :bigthumbsup:

Regards,

Mark

 

[Trypod]

:spyder: I didn't have any problems with the popping back until I made the trip to Leesburg bikefest with my uncle. I'm not sure what started it, but believe there were several contributing factors: (1) i only had about 300 miles on it before the trip and had just installed the hindle a few days before, so not much time on the new exhaust besides the burn in (2) on the 2nd fill up i decided to use mid grade, 89 octane (3) we ran pretty hard since there wasn't much traffic down hwy 16 and us 301, and when i would let off after running hard, i'd get popping (4) on the way back i decided to use premium, 93 octane, the popping back actually seemed to get a bit worse. Since then i have gone back to using regular, 87 octane, i still ride hard part of the time, but when i let off i sometimes get a little pop back not as bad as on the leesburg trip. I'm not worried about it now and believe it was just a matter of "growing up" and i'm happy as a lark about the ryde (cept for the occasional "dump truck" brake squeal :edit: ) Now all i need is to get it back from the shop with the power steering fixed and i won't be spending so much time reading everyone else's posts about how much fun they're having. :joke: Happy :spyder: in', ryde safe!! :bigthumbsup:

 

[Way2Fast]

Could be bad gas... or too high octane.

Run plain old 87..... Spyder doesn't require anything more.... and the higher octane stuff can cause this to happen.

The Spyder can get away with running 87 only because the ECM acknowledges the detonation (pinging) that occurs with low octane fuel and compensates by retarding the timing to prevent engine damage. The Spyder has an engine with 11.3-1 compression ratio which is be no means ideally suited for regular 87 octane fuel. Even 93 octane will not allow the computer to fully advance the timing in many operating conditions.

Yamaha warns only to use a minimum of 93 in their Raider 113 CI engine with a 9.5-1 compression ratio, with 98 octane being the optimum grade. Years ago, when you were still able to purchase "good gas", high performance engines with ratios at 11-1 or better required either Hess 101 or Sunoco 260 to run without pinging. Today's computer equipped engines allow for less octane, but the price you pay is reduced performance and possibly fuel mileage.

 

[Danimal]

Well... you can damage an engine by running octane that is too high.

Also - higher octane gas sits in the ground longer... and the octane lowers as time goes on... not to mention the gas gets moisture in it. The octane might actually be as low as your 89 or 87 if the gas sits too long. The 87 regular is turned over so quick you are getting much fresher gas.

Higher compression is not the only factor when considering running higher octane.

For those of you running a Hindle or other aftermarket exhaust... you should unplug the battery for 1/2 hour - this will reset the system so it will be ready to 'learn' to remix the fuel for your new exhaust. Otherwise it can take a few hundred miles for it to adjust.

You might also want to add the 02 modifier from evoluzione.net... runs much better with this installed. The 02 mod can NOT run with the STOCK PIPE.... so don't try it!


There is ZERO advantage to running anything higher than 87 in the Spyder.

 

[SpyderMark]

Today's computer equipped engines allow for less octane, but the price you pay is reduced performance and possibly fuel mileage.

Unless you know for certain the Spyder's ignition system is capable of the timing changes necessary to take advantage of the additional octane you should stick with the recommended minimum. There is more to engine octane requirements than ignition timing.

Read this: http://fbe.erciyes.edu.tr/Turkce/eufbedergisi/der2003/2-M2-cenk.pdf

The Spyder Operator's Guide specifies fuel with a MINIMUM octane rating of 87 using (R+M)/2 formula, or 92 using the RON formula. Although no prohibition is made against using higher-octane fuel, there is no mention it can improve performance or fuel economy. If such gains were available why would BRP not post such advantageous information?

If you have specific information regarding the Spyder's ignition system and high-octane fuel capabilities please share your sources with us.

Regards,

Mark

 

[ataDude]

Actually, guys, higher octane means slower burning. Slower burning means less, or no, pinging, or pre-detonation.

You should run the lowest octane recommended by BRP for the best performance.

 

[spyryder]

The Spyder can get away with running 87 only because the ECM acknowledges the detonation (pinging) that occurs with low octane fuel and compensates by retarding the timing to prevent engine damage. The Spyder has an engine with 11.3-1 compression ratio which is be no means ideally suited for regular 87 octane fuel. Even 93 octane will not allow the computer to fully advance the timing in many operating conditions.

Yamaha warns only to use a minimum of 93 in their Raider 113 CI engine with a 9.5-1 compression ratio, with 98 octane being the optimum grade. Years ago, when you were still able to purchase "good gas", high performance engines with ratios at 11-1 or better required either Hess 101 or Sunoco 260 to run without pinging. Today's computer equipped engines allow for less octane, but the price you pay is reduced performance and possibly fuel mileage.

Manual states compression ratio is 10.8 :dontknow:

 

[Way2Fast]

Manual states compression ratio is 10.8 :dontknow:

I thought the owners manual stated a 11.3-1 compression...it's out in the garage, I will double check tomorrow. Regardless, anything approaching 10-1 requires more than 87 octane fuel for maximum performance. The laws of physics require it.. One of the primary functions of all ECM's is to retard the timing when detonation occurs. This will prevent engine damage....this is why BRP ok's 87 as the minimum octane usable....besides, stating that regular fuel is OK is money saved for the customer and a selling point for BRP. If you want to take full advantage of the potential offered by a high compression engine, use the proper (higher) octane fuel. If you just putter around and never use full throttle, 87 will get you where you want to go. By the way, timing that is advanced or retarded to excess will cause the engine to backfire.

 

[Ray R]

I'm pretty sure higher octane fuel cannot wreck an engine.

I don't think what you're hearing is actually backfiring. In my experience, the popping you mention is typically due to a lean fuel condition. It's common on many new motorcycles as manufacturers work to comply with EPA rules for emmissions.

 

[Danimal]

Way2...

"If you want to take full advantage of the potential offered by a high compression engine, use the proper (higher) octane fuel. If you just putter around and never use full throttle, 87 will get you where you want to go."

Sorry.... but you don't know what you're talking about.

We had a VERY detailed discussion on this topic over at spydertalk.com - various experts and studies with links and whatnot to back it up....

 

[SpyderMark]

Regardless, anything approaching 10-1 requires more than 87 octane fuel for maximum performance. The laws of physics require it.. One of the primary functions of all ECM's is to retard the timing when detonation occurs.

As I already pointed out, there is more to engine octane requirements than compression ratio and timing. Did you know you are actually changing the timing of the ignition event you change a fuel's octane?

If you want to take full advantage of the potential offered by a high compression engine, use the proper (higher) octane fuel. If you just putter around and never use full throttle, 87 will get you where you want to go.

There are many advantages and disadvantages to increasing an engine's compression ratio. To which "advantage" are you referring? If you are suggesting one may get better engine performance (power and economy) using higher octane, that would be true only if the rest of the systems are optimized to use it. An engine is not just a cylinder and piston, there is also the spark plug, ignition system, fuel delivery system, etc. Each of these sub-systems must be optimized for high octane fuel in order to use it.

Additionally, as you've pointed out, the engine's ECU controls ignition and timing across the entire RPM range. Considering this, why would lower octane fuel suffice for "puttering," but not full throttle? Wouldn't the ECU compensate during all engine operations?

How do you respond to my suggestion that if any advantages were to be had by using high octane fuel BRP would have suggested using it in the Spyder Operator's Guide?

Either you are sharing your opinion, or you have very specific information from a good source that leads you to believe using higher octane fuel will improve our Spyders' engine power and economy. Can you please tell us if your statements are just your opinion, or can you share your source?

Regards,

Mark

 

[Danimal]

Well.. many have done SOTP testing..... including me..... and the Spyder runs worse on higher octane... not better.

 

[sabunim5]

:2excited: :barf: Here we go AGAIN with another chapter in the octane war saga. ;D