ar-15

[Machinegunner]

When I said after 1986, no new machine guns could be sold to the public. Anybody with enough money and the ability to pass the stringent background check, can buy a previously transferable machine gun. The NRA has done more to promote gun safety than any other organization. They are being blamed for something they did not cause. I think that this has started a move to destroy the NRA and to further the agenda to disarm the USA.

 

[Bob Denman]

:agree: The NRA is all about responsible ownership!


Why? :shocked:

Because every tragedy starts crap like this! nojoke

 

[BoilerAnimal]

I have seen some suggestions that DO bear closer scrutiny:
Expanded Background checks
"Red Flag" Laws
The "hardening" of Schools
Getting rid of Bump-stocks...

I'm not necessarily opposed to looking at raising the age limit to 21: but I really don't see where it would have much (if any) effect.

Please keep in mind that NONE of this will solve the problem: you STILL need to address the changing social values of our Society.
The Evil within us will still find a way to cause carnage... :gaah:

Bob, please tell us why you, or anyone else, would have an objection to raising the age to 21 for any gun purchases.

 

[LeftCoast]

While :agree:: I very much prefer a discussion based upon fact, and not just emotion.

After all... "If you listen to fools":

Agreed Bob. Just judging on comments on various forums this will not be easy. I find it fascinating no matter what your point of view on the issue how effective the media has been in getting their particular message across. I see the same examples being parroted everywhere. I’m not sure that is going to be helpful when it comes to resolving the issue either as the talking points we are being fed aren’t really designed to help the conversation as opposed to creating the kind of emotional responses I read in many places.

 

[wyliec]

Go out and learn what gun control really means. Look at Australia and read what their gun control done. They took the guns away from the honest people and their crime rate went up a lot. So when you here all these rich stars and so called government workers we elected talk about taking guns away from people. Lets take their guns away from their security guards and give them a baton to defend them with and see how that goes.

Where is your Australian info coming from? We have a number of S/L members from Australia. How about we let them tell us what the truth is.

 

[wyliec]

I have seen some suggestions that DO bear closer scrutiny:
Expanded Background checks
"Red Flag" Laws
The "hardening" of Schools
Getting rid of Bump-stocks...

I'm not necessarily opposed to looking at raising the age limit to 21: but I really don't see where it would have much (if any) effect.

Please keep in mind that NONE of this will solve the problem: you STILL need to address the changing social values of our Society.
The Evil within us will still find a way to cause carnage... :gaah:

I haven't read thru all the posts, so this may have been answered. Is the thinking that those between the age of 18 and 21 don't show enough maturity for responsible gun ownership? If that's the case, why are they in the military?

 

[Bob Denman]

Ron,
That's my concern about this issue also. :dontknow:

 

[LeftCoast]

Go out and learn what gun control really means. Look at Australia and read what their gun control done. They took the guns away from the honest people and their crime rate went up a lot. So when you here all these rich stars and so called government workers we elected talk about taking guns away from people. Lets take their guns away from their security guards and give them a baton to defend them with and see how that goes.

I don’t know where the “Take all your guns away and let’s see how they do with batons” got started but I wish I could quell it.

First it is logistically impossible in this country to take everyone’s guns away, it’s just not going to happen. We are not Australia. The entire population of Australia is less than that of California by itself.

Second although I’m sure you can find people who would like to take all the guns away I guarantee they are not in any sort of position to make this happen, nor are they any sort of majority, AND most “liberals” I know believe in the second amendment and aren’t interested in seeing it repealed. I’m not and I’m a gun owner.

Third, I think we need to watch fewer news sources and actually talk to each other to find out what someone means by everything from gun control to supporting all the NRA’s positions instead of being told by a talking head with an agenda what someone else’s position is. In many cases we may not be as far apart as “they” want us to believe we are.

Look at me, I said I wasn’t going to post much here on this issue. I think I’ll call it a day. Hope all of you get some good riding weather and enjoy your Sunday.

 

[rudym]

The biggest picture isn't in your camera

I am a retired naval bomb disposal officer with tours in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan - I qualified expert on both rifles and pistols
I own 1 rifle, 3 pistols - they are all in safes and will stay there unless needed to kill a rabid animal or the likes.
I used to hunt but do not anymore - although I still eat game when someone else brings it to the table

More important to this conversation and thread on the forum and nationally - I have two children, a son and a daughter in their 40's, with 3 grandchildren in elementary school
I work in a health care related field with people on the "edge" or Verge" and often times in chronic pain...... mental health issues abound in this country yet our mental health care systems and pain management methods are deplorable - gutted - is a good term.

If you had a daughter or son of legal age or spouse with mental health problems, and they already owned a gun - you COULD NOT have it taken away from them. Here in Alabama as I was told "unless there is an incident there is no problem". Very hard to have someone legally declared a danger to themselves or others.
Depression and schizophrenia and other forms of metal illness like PTSD don't always advertise themselves in a way that gets folks locked up or gets them mandated help.
Even folks with professional help - go off their meds - and the issues return.
We live at a time when info streams so fast and our little peoples are exposed to sooooo damn much violence on the t.v., the video games, 23 years of endless war and military conflicts and endless terrorist attacks that our most delicate minds, our children and those with mental illness are being ravaged by fear and warped by repetitive images of violence.... many in single parent homes.

We sit behind our little computer screens and type how important the 2nd amendment is to our rights. To our safety our security our happiness and rights of self determination but none of us (that I know of) has a child or loved one that has bleed out at school or a concert, because the mental health system failed to inform the judicial system (due to someone's privacy rights) THAT DANGER WAS AT HAND.

YOUR LOVED ones are in DANGER!! We worry so much about the rights of the individual (and criminal) without being more concerned with the rights of the masses (victims).

Lots of analogies are available from fertilizer bombs, to drinking and smoking to texting and driving and so on..... but nothing can inflict so much pain and suffering on so many people (families) churches (people) communities AS SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN LOST IN THE SYSTEM WHICH HAS FAILED THEM and they snap....and a very lethal weapon is conveniently close at hand. Maybe they were bullied, maybe rejected, maybe just lost in the darkness of despair after loosing the only person that they ever loved, even if it was a pet - it doesn't matter why, when you go over the edge you go over the edge and finding bottom is never pleasant.

Will reducing the # of rounds a weapon can hold to 6 stop the deaths? NO - but it will help
Will removing weapons capable of inflicting mass destruction stop the deaths? NO - but it will help
Will improving the mental health care affordability and access and referral system in this country stop the deaths? NO - but it will help
Will computerized and anonymous reporting of potentially dangerous people (on the verge) or whatever by a family member stop the deaths? NO but it will help.
Will temporarily removing the guns from a home where firearm security (safes and trigger locks) are not available stop the deaths? NO but it will help
Will putting the lives of people in mass before the enjoyment of single right to bear arms gun ownership stop the deaths? NO but it will help
Will getting the entertainment industry like Hollywood and video game producers to minimize violent content stop the deaths? No but it will help
Will politicians stop taking monies from the firearm industry stop the deaths? NO but it will help

These are just a few things that, IMO, would help, and each of them comes with many pro's and con's; but together, collectively, they could make a huge difference.

If one of these things could stop your most loved one from dying tomorrow - what would that be worth to you?

 

[RinconRyder]

Go out and learn what gun control really means. Look at Australia and read what their gun control done. They took the guns away from the honest people and their crime rate went up a lot. So when you here all these rich stars and so called government workers we elected talk about taking guns away from people. Lets take their guns away from their security guards and give them a baton to defend them with and see how that goes.

Like most people on your side of the debate you are either misinformed or illiterate.

https://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp

 

[Bob Denman]

Bob, please tell us why you, or anyone else, would have an objection to raising the age to 21 for any gun purchases.

Take a look at Wylie's post (#365)

And where did I say that I was absolutely against it? :dontknow:
(I NEVER did... nojoke)

 

[Bob Denman]

Oh! :lecturef_smilie: Without resorting to using your Search Engines...

Who in here can actually explain why The Bump Stock was developed????




If it's outlawed: who will be yelling the loudest about it???

 

[RinconRyder]

When I said after 1986, no new machine guns could be sold to the public. Anybody with enough money and the ability to pass the stringent background check, can buy a previously transferable machine gun.

You need to be specific in your posts because that is not what you previously posted. And by "transferable" you really mean "existing".

The NRA has done more to promote gun safety than any other organization.

They used to. Not any longer.

They are being blamed for something they did not cause. I think that this has started a move to destroy the NRA and to further the agenda to disarm the USA.

The NRA is NOT being blamed for the mass shootings but is rightfully being blamed for buying politicians votes so that meaningful gun control cannot be passed.

The NRA can either revert back to what it was during its first 100 years or it can see itself made irrelevant. Keeping people like La Pierre in the leadership will greatly speed its demise.

 

[RinconRyder]

:agree: The NRA is all about responsible ownership!


Why? :shocked:

Because every tragedy starts crap like this! nojoke

This isn't CRAP! These are the lives of our children and other innocent people.

 

[RinconRyder]

Think about this gun nuts:

I am in significantly more danger of being shot with a gun here in my own country than in almost any other country in the world. And I don't live in Detroit or Chicago.

America, the "greatest country"? HA! Put the above in the list of the many reason why this is no longer the case.

 

[Mad Mac]

Hi Mac!
I've heard this report also...
I'm not sure if it's been verified as true or not.
Let's see where it ends up... :thumbup:

(My gut is telling me that it's just like a pair of eight year-olds standing in front of a broken window... They're pointing at each other , and yelling, "HE did it!" )

Bob, I've had two situations in my life that I WAS the "dumb A#$" that ran right into the fire and my wife knows of both. One of which involved two people in a roll-over car accident ( vehicle had gas/ flames/smoke pouring out of it). Sooo, being the responding officer in that situation (knowing me, I probably would have lost my life or maybe not) could have been a bad thing (for the officer(s) or maybe there would have been less fatalities, more should have been done. We d/n know the training that the officers had or didn't have, we always fall back on our training, for me it was my military and sheriff's dept., but you are probably correct about "starring at one another" or "not me, you go!" scenario. I'm sure we are going to hear all the tapes/recordings after the investigation when it's completed and not any time before, so the media can't put their spin on it. We can speculate all we want. Mac:doorag:

 

[Bob Denman]

The NRA can either revert back to what it was during its first 100 years or it can see itself made irrelevant. Keeping people like La Pierre in the leadership will greatly speed its demise.

Your ignorance about the NRA is actually starting to scare me now. nojoke
You weren't at the 2010 Convention in Charlotte, N.C.
I was...

Mr. LaPierre was instrumental in beating back an attempt by a more vocal and vitriolic group of members; who wanted the NRA to take a more hard-core stance, and resist any and ALL attempts at a negotiated solution.

Have you ever spoken with the man?
I have...

"Responsible ownership of firearms" has always been his main goal. When these disasters happen: nobody wins.

And as far as the NRA NOT promoting Fun Safety. I taught the Eddie Eagle program at our local Elementary School for years: It's message to children:
If you find a gun: "Stop! Don't Touch! Leave the area, and tell an Adult!"

https://eddieeagle.nra.org/

I take personal offense at your characterization: we worked hard for those kids. What have you EVER done for them?

 

[cyclelover63]

1. Arm teachers. Teachers are not first responders and most would not be able to take appropriate action against a shooter who, in most cases, is armed with much more fire power than a handgun. This would also put a teacher in the first line of fire in a shooter environment and virtually guarantee they would get shot right off the bat. Shooters are not stupid and would go after armed civilians first. This might have been reasonable thinking in the 50's where many teachers were WWII vets but that is not the case today.​

Did you know that Texas not only allows their Teachers to be armed: they encourage it....
Governor Scott was interviewed about this fact today on Neil Cavuto's show..
They're certainly not forced to carry. It's 100% voluntary, and they are given the training to handle the task.

I bet if the coach who stepped in front of the students was armed,the shooter would have been stopped right then. He could have shot quicker than moving in front of the kids...And had a better chance of seeing his family at the end of the day.

 

[Trickie Dick]

New poll out.

This is an excerpt from a USA Today poll published today. You can find the complete article in USA Today of course.

A new CNN poll released Sunday put Trump's approval rating at 35%, his lowest level in that survey.The USA TODAY/Suffolk Poll of 1,000 registered voters nationwide, taken Tuesday through Saturday, has a margin of error of plus or minus three percentage points.
On guns, a nation that is often divided on issues is remarkably united:

• By almost 2-1, 61%-33%, they say tightening gun-control laws and background checks would prevent more mass shootings in the United States.
• By more than 2-1, 63%-29%, they say semi-automatic weapons like the AR-15, used by the Florida shooter, should be banned.
• By more than 6-1, 76%-12%, they say people who have been treated for mental illness should be banned from owning a firearm.

 

[Bob Denman]

You HAVE to be careful with polls... nojoke
I can make ANY poll come out exactly as I wish... you just need to know how to get the proper folks to talk to.
We did studies in College about this:
Same exact question to crowds in an indoor New Jersey Mall...

...One Month apart!
We simply picked different people to ask, and our results came out exactly opposite! nojoke