Anyone tried a Michelin HydroEdge Tire?

[RayBJ]

Vredestein Quattro, NO such tire at TIRE RACK, The same guy has called it wrong twice in this thread.

T.P.

My bad! Sorry you were unable to figure it out even with the correct link.

Ride safe! :cheers:

 

[PMK]

So my inquiry is, based on your informative post, what tire do you run or recommend?

I do not recommend specifically what tires folks on this website should run. But do, as you read, recommend performance tires over touring tires.

Currently on our Spyder. A pair of Federal Formoza fronts and a Yokohama s.Drive rear. The Yokohama was marketed as a high performance summer tire and not for cooler road temps. Like many tires, over time they are discontinued and newer models are released. The s.Drive is no longer offered.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

When researching Spyder tires, knowing the Spyder is a fraction of a car / SUV weight, I only consider High Performance tires and will not consider Touring tires. Grip on a lighter vehicle is important.
If these ratings and test results were compared in a manner, that rated performance comparing all tires on the same scale, when tested for dry traction, snow, quietness and more, the results would be more useful.
Simply, the highest rated Touring tires, will be a fraction of the grip offered by High Performance tires.

Consider, a fully loaded Spyder, at max published weight, including passengers and cargo, is about 1700 pounds for an RT series. The F3 series will be lighter, as will no cargo and a single rider of 210 pounds fully geared up.

The best scenario would have the weight distributed 50% on the single rear tire and 50% on the pair of front tires. This would place 850 pounds on the rear tire. Comparing, a Honda Civic, would have a similar weight on a single tire as the fully loaded Spyder rear tire.
Under the same calculation, the pair of front tires sharing 850 pounds would each see only 425 pounds per tire.

Knowing Spyders have a forward mounted engine, front suspension, two front wheels, can load more weight in the frunk, and typically the heavier rider is positioned forward, the weight bias seems to move away from 50/50. I personally have never measured corner weights of a Spyder. I do realize as the numbers shift towards a more weighted front, the rear tire weight decreases, and with that the tires ability to grip the road surface decreases.

Many folks do run touring tires, and report acceptable performance for themselves. Hopefully the limits of grip are never needed. If Touring Tires offered the best grip, it seems high performance sports cars would be delivered with them. I highly doubt owners of high performance cars are replacing performance tires with touring tires as an upgrade.

Merely consider all factors and priorities when deciding. Myself I take grip over tire longevity for the Spyder.

Also, with it now fashionable to be concerned about tire date codes, and many folks insisting that tires older than 7 years old need replacement, one should consider miles per year ridden on the Spyder. We often see these touring tires going 30,000, 40,000 and maybe more miles before replacement. That requires about 5,000 miles per year on the Spyder at a minimum.

" a fraction of the grip " .... seriously .....:roflblack::roflblack: ..... JMHO ...... Mike :thumbup:

 

[PMK]

" a fraction of the grip " .... seriously .....:roflblack::roflblack: ..... JMHO ...... Mike :thumbup:

Mike, simply prove me wrong...do you seriously believe a touring tire has equal or better grip than a high performance tire? If not equal in grip, or more grip, then yes, it is a fraction of the grip.

It would be so much nicer if these tire tests compared all tires on the same scale for all parameters. Problem though is the lower ratings, if done this way, for lesser performing tires, would hinder sales.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Mike, simply prove me wrong...do you seriously believe a touring tire has equal or better grip than a high performance tire? If not equal in grip, or more grip, then yes, it is a fraction of the grip.

It would be so much nicer if these tire tests compared all tires on the same scale for all parameters. Problem though is the lower ratings, if done this way, for lesser performing tires, would hinder sales.

My issue is with the wording you used ...... a " fraction " of the grip, to me means less than 1% ..... So the Touring tires have less than 1% of the grip of High performance tires ????? ....which equates to - High performance tires have 99% MORE grip than touring tires. ..... this isn't possible ....... Mike :thumbup:

 

[PMK]

My issue is with the wording you used ...... a " fraction " of the grip, to me means less than 1% ..... So the Touring tires have less than 1% of the grip of High performance tires ????? ....which equates to - High performance tires have 99% MORE grip than touring tires. ..... this isn't possible ....... Mike :thumbup:

Mike, a solid rubber tire on a grocery store cart has more than 1%.

Using easy numbers, 50% is half the grip when compared.

The 1% must be the frugal New Englander coming out...

 

[BajaRon]

My issue is with the wording you used ...... a " fraction " of the grip, to me means less than 1% ..... So the Touring tires have less than 1% of the grip of High performance tires ????? ....which equates to - High performance tires have 99% MORE grip than touring tires. ..... this isn't possible ....... Mike :thumbup:

The accepted meaning of 'Only a Fraction' is 'A LOT LESS'. But actually, if one tire has 99% of the traction of another tire. It is still only a fraction. A virtually indistinguishable fraction. But a fraction none the less. When discussing fractions, it is very important to quantify the amount. Otherwise, it is somewhat meaningless.

However, the point is well taken. If you don't have head to head testing under identical conditions. It's hard to put a value on traction. Seat of the pants isn't all that accurate.

 

[Peteoz]

That's funny because I have one on My 2020 F3 se6, 205/60R/15.

View attachment 199431

Yeah, I think Michael is referring to finding the Quatrac in the nominal Kenda size, Clover, without realising the real world difference between manufacturers nominal and actual widths…..

Pete

 

[RayBJ]

Not uncommon for folks having trouble with fractions. Statistically, 4 out of 3 people have the problem. hyea:

 

[Peter Aawen]

Not uncommon for folks having trouble with fractions. Statistically, 4 out of 3 people have the problem. hyea:

I like that one! :roflblack:

But I feel the need to add, just for those in need of a better definition or who may not quite understand:

(Definition from Oxford Languages)

Fraction

frac·tion
/ˈfrakSH(ə)n/

noun

1. a numerical quantity that is not a whole number (e.g. 1/2, 0.5).

2. a small or tiny part, amount, or proportion of something. "he hesitated for a fraction of a second"

[My italics & emphasis in 2. ]

Just Sayin' hyea:

 

[T.P.]

My bad! Sorry you were unable to figure it out even with the correct link.

Ride safe! :cheers:

Been running Q5,s and Quatrac's on Spyder's longer then you have been a member here. I have it figured out!
Lots of wrong information given out on car tires that fit Spyders, Wrong sizes and wrong names to start with, That does need to be corrected.
T.P.

 

[PMK]

I like that one! :roflblack:

But I feel the need to add, just for those in need of a better definition or who may not quite understand:

(Definition from Oxford Languages)

Fraction

frac·tion
/ˈfrakSH(ə)n/

noun

1. a numerical quantity that is not a whole number (e.g. 1/2, 0.5).

2. a small or tiny part, amount, or proportion of something. "he hesitated for a fraction of a second"

[My italics & emphasis in 2. ]

Just Sayin' hyea:

Just askin’, being a tire authority that you are, High Performance tire vs Touring tire, how much difference in grip between them when equally compared?

 

[Peter Aawen]

Just askin’, being a tire authority that you are, High Performance tire vs Touring tire, how much difference in grip between them when equally compared?

In my experience of tire testing (which does cover a few decades now, & I have tested more than just 'a couple' of High Performance tires on my Spyder too; luckily, at someone else's expense! ) and I'd suggest also very likely in the opinion of many Professional Tire Testers, if you're talking about top tier High Performance Dry Weather tires (not 'Ultra Performance' tires) vs top tier All Season Sport/Touring tires (rather than just middle range 'General Purpose' Auto tires) then on Dry surfaces, there is a little difference in traction and braking, but it's certainly not a heap & I really doubt that any experienced Tire Tester would ever go so far as to say:

...... Simply, the highest rated Touring tires, will be a fraction of the grip offered by High Performance tires. .....

Sure, there's a difference, but it's a usually closer to 'a fraction of a difference' rather than 'a fraction of the grip' & I've found that it's rarely more than 'a second or two' on the test track or a few metres on the braking bed; and in the Wet, on the Skid Pan, or on 'less than ideal surfaces', the modern Sport/Touring All Season tires that many here choose to run (me included, only here in Oz, I don't quite have the same tire choices you might!) generally come out more than that ahead of the High Performance Dry Weather tires! And the Sport/Tourers generally well outlast the High Performance Dry Weather tires when it comes to tire life too; altho if you don't cater for the lighter loading on the rear tire of a Spyder vs that of most cars, and run more 'appropriate for the lesser load' lower pressures, then you can easily scrub off that extra tire life advantage very quickly! :shocked:

However, I can understand where you're coming from in choosing to run a High Performance Dry Weather tire on your Spyder, but I simply don't have the ability nor the capability of being able to chose to ride ONLY on dry, good condition roads; and I suspect that there are many other Spyder Riders who are in that same predicament!! I do a lot of long, hot miles, often touring over many days or weeks, but the weather & road conditions here in Oz are fairly unpredictable & sometimes quite volatile, so while I do sometimes choose to go riding in the rain, I also occasionally have no choice but to continue to ride on wet, very wet, or otherwise 'less than ideal' road surfaces, and I like to know that my tires are up for doing that as well as being very near the best in terms of traction & braking on dry & good road surfaces too! And the fact that they last somewhat longer besides is an added bonus. :thumbup:

For me & I suspect most Spyder Riders, the fraction of a difference in traction & braking advantage that's provided by High Performance Dry Weather tires simply isn't worth it because of that need to occasionally (or more often??) & somewhat unpredictably ride on wet roads/in less than ideal conditions. Besides, I suspect that for many Spyder Riders, the minor advantage in the dry that the High Performance Dry Weather tires may provide is well beyond their usual riding needs/wants, simply because we don't all ride full on ALL the time! And that fraction of an advantage right at the limit in the dry may quite possibly be well beyond the capabilities of at least some Riders at the best of times anyway! So I'd hafta ask myself and them, why choose to sacrifice a better All Weather All surface capability AND longer tire life for something that is likely to somewhat degrade their riding safety when they really need the best traction & braking capabilities they can get for those surfaces/conditions the most?? :dontknow:

But like I said, if you only ever ride on dry, good condition roads, then I can understand why you might want to choose those Dry Weather High Performance tires that undoubtedly DO have marginally better traction & braking performance in ideal Dry conditions.... :thumbup:

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

In my experience of tire testing (which does cover a few decades now, & I have tested more than just 'a couple' of High Performance tires on my Spyder too; luckily, at someone else's expense! ) and I'd suggest also very likely in the opinion of many Professional Tire Testers, if you're talking about top tier High Performance Dry Weather tires (not 'Ultra Performance' tires) vs top tier All Season Sport/Touring tires (rather than just middle range 'General Purpose' Auto tires) then on Dry surfaces, there is a little difference in traction and braking, but it's certainly not a heap & I really doubt that any experienced Tire Tester would ever go so far as to say:


Sure, there's a difference, but it's a usually closer to 'a fraction of a difference' rather than 'a fraction of the grip' & I've found that it's rarely more than 'a second or two' on the test track or a few metres on the braking bed; and in the Wet, on the Skid Pan, or on 'less than ideal surfaces', the modern Sport/Touring All Season tires that many here choose to run (me included, only here in Oz, I don't quite have the same tire choices you might!) generally come out more than that ahead of the High Performance Dry Weather tires! And the Sport/Tourers generally well outlast the High Performance Dry Weather tires when it comes to tire life too; altho if you don't cater for the lighter loading on the rear tire of a Spyder vs that of most cars, and run more 'appropriate for the lesser load' lower pressures, then you can easily scrub off that extra tire life advantage very quickly! :shocked:

However, I can understand where you're coming from in choosing to run a High Performance Dry Weather tire on your Spyder, but I simply don't have the ability nor the capability of being able to chose to ride ONLY on dry, good condition roads; and I suspect that there are many other Spyder Riders who are in that same predicament!! I do a lot of long, hot miles, often touring over many days or weeks, but the weather & road conditions here in Oz are fairly unpredictable & sometimes quite volatile, so while I do sometimes choose to go riding in the rain, I also occasionally have no choice but to continue to ride on wet, very wet, or otherwise 'less than ideal' road surfaces, and I like to know that my tires are up for doing that as well as being very near the best in terms of traction & braking on dry & good road surfaces too! And the fact that they last somewhat longer besides is an added bonus. :thumbup:

For me & I suspect most Spyder Riders, the fraction of a difference in traction & braking advantage that's provided by High Performance Dry Weather tires simply isn't worth it because of that need to occasionally (or more often??) & somewhat unpredictably ride on wet roads/in less than ideal conditions. Besides, I suspect that for many Spyder Riders, the minor advantage in the dry that the High Performance Dry Weather tires may provide is well beyond their usual riding needs/wants, simply because we don't all ride full on ALL the time! And that fraction of an advantage right at the limit in the dry may quite possibly be well beyond the capabilities of at least some Riders at the best of times anyway! So I'd hafta ask myself and them, why choose to sacrifice a better All Weather All surface capability AND longer tire life for something that is likely to somewhat degrade their riding safety when they really need the best traction & braking capabilities they can get for those surfaces/conditions the most?? :dontknow:

But like I said, if you only ever ride on dry, good condition roads, then I can understand why you might want to choose those Dry Weather High Performance tires that undoubtedly DO have marginally better traction & braking performance in ideal Dry conditions.... :thumbup:

Well Thank you Peter for your explanation ..... it matches what I said ..... I don't type very well so I use less words .... Your first sentence in your second paragraph, sums it up perfectly...... Mike :thumbup:

 

[PMK]

In my experience of tire testing (which does cover a few decades now, & I have tested more than just 'a couple' of High Performance tires on my Spyder too; luckily, at someone else's expense! ) and I'd suggest also very likely in the opinion of many Professional Tire Testers, if you're talking about top tier High Performance Dry Weather tires (not 'Ultra Performance' tires) vs top tier All Season Sport/Touring tires (rather than just middle range 'General Purpose' Auto tires) then on Dry surfaces, there is a little difference in traction and braking, but it's certainly not a heap & I really doubt that any experienced Tire Tester would ever go so far as to say:


Sure, there's a difference, but it's a usually closer to 'a fraction of a difference' rather than 'a fraction of the grip' & I've found that it's rarely more than 'a second or two' on the test track or a few metres on the braking bed; and in the Wet, on the Skid Pan, or on 'less than ideal surfaces', the modern Sport/Touring All Season tires that many here choose to run (me included, only here in Oz, I don't quite have the same tire choices you might!) generally come out more than that ahead of the High Performance Dry Weather tires! And the Sport/Tourers generally well outlast the High Performance Dry Weather tires when it comes to tire life too; altho if you don't cater for the lighter loading on the rear tire of a Spyder vs that of most cars, and run more 'appropriate for the lesser load' lower pressures, then you can easily scrub off that extra tire life advantage very quickly! :shocked:

However, I can understand where you're coming from in choosing to run a High Performance Dry Weather tire on your Spyder, but I simply don't have the ability nor the capability of being able to chose to ride ONLY on dry, good condition roads; and I suspect that there are many other Spyder Riders who are in that same predicament!! I do a lot of long, hot miles, often touring over many days or weeks, but the weather & road conditions here in Oz are fairly unpredictable & sometimes quite volatile, so while I do sometimes choose to go riding in the rain, I also occasionally have no choice but to continue to ride on wet, very wet, or otherwise 'less than ideal' road surfaces, and I like to know that my tires are up for doing that as well as being very near the best in terms of traction & braking on dry & good road surfaces too! And the fact that they last somewhat longer besides is an added bonus. :thumbup:

For me & I suspect most Spyder Riders, the fraction of a difference in traction & braking advantage that's provided by High Performance Dry Weather tires simply isn't worth it because of that need to occasionally (or more often??) & somewhat unpredictably ride on wet roads/in less than ideal conditions. Besides, I suspect that for many Spyder Riders, the minor advantage in the dry that the High Performance Dry Weather tires may provide is well beyond their usual riding needs/wants, simply because we don't all ride full on ALL the time! And that fraction of an advantage right at the limit in the dry may quite possibly be well beyond the capabilities of at least some Riders at the best of times anyway! So I'd hafta ask myself and them, why choose to sacrifice a better All Weather All surface capability AND longer tire life for something that is likely to somewhat degrade their riding safety when they really need the best traction & braking capabilities they can get for those surfaces/conditions the most?? :dontknow:

But like I said, if you only ever ride on dry, good condition roads, then I can understand why you might want to choose those Dry Weather High Performance tires that undoubtedly DO have marginally better traction & braking performance in ideal Dry conditions.... :thumbup:

So then, in summary, the highest category of the best touring tires, typically have less performance than the lowest category of high performance tires except possibly in the rain? Keeping it simple, and not a play on words, the performance is less. Pretty much a yes or no answer.

 

[Peter Aawen]

So then, in summary, the highest category of the best touring tires, typically have less performance than the lowest category of high performance tires except possibly in the rain? Keeping it simple, and not a play on words, the performance is less. Pretty much a yes or no answer.

No, that's not at all what I wrote, neither is what you wrote here the whole truth either - altho there was a time, it's just not that cut & dried any more! So as you asked, I'll try to keep it simple, with no play on words - the highest category of High Performance Dry Weather tires (which btw are not 'Ultra Performance' tires, or dedicated 'Track' tires for that matter! ) simply DO NOT have a significant traction & braking performance advantage over the highest category of Sport/Touring All Season tires in the dry, and are somewhat outperformed when it comes to traction & braking in the wet & in/on less than ideal conditions/road surfaces! :lecturef_smilie:


There really isn't that much in it any more - to put it another way, the best Sport/Touring All Season tires that are readily available these days are very nearly as good as the best High Performance Dry Weather tires that most can readily buy are in the dry - there is only a fraction of a difference; but those same All Season tires somewhat outperform the Dry Weather tires in the wet & in/on less than ideal conditions/road surfaces! Altho I should also say that similarly, the best Dedictated WET Weather tires that are readily available these days are nearly as good as the All Season tires are in the dry, but the Wet Weather tires somewhat outperform the All Season tires in the wet!

And just in case you also didn't get this bit the first time around, I'll also repeat the other important bit that I tried to put across before - in my opinion, I do not believe that for MOST Spyder riders, ie, those of us who MAY at some stage end up riding on wet roads, whatever fractional traction & braking performance difference there might be between dedicated Dry Weather High Performance tires and All Weather Sport/Touring tires in dry weather only simply does not warrant the degraded traction & braking that running dedicated Dry Weather tires in the wet brings! :lecturef_smilie:

 

[PMK]

No, that's not at all what I wrote, neither is what you wrote here the whole truth either - altho there was a time, it's just not that cut & dried any more! So as you asked, I'll try to keep it simple, with no play on words - the highest category of High Performance Dry Weather tires (which btw are not 'Ultra Performance' tires, or dedicated 'Track' tires for that matter! ) simply DO NOT have a significant traction & braking performance advantage over the highest category of Sport/Touring All Season tires in the dry, and are somewhat outperformed when it comes to traction & braking in the wet & in/on less than ideal conditions/road surfaces! :lecturef_smilie:


There really isn't that much in it any more - to put it another way, the best Sport/Touring All Season tires that are readily available these days are very nearly as good as the best High Performance Dry Weather tires that most can readily buy are in the dry - there is only a fraction of a difference; but those same All Season tires somewhat outperform the Dry Weather tires in the wet & in/on less than ideal conditions/road surfaces! Altho I should also say that similarly, the best Dedictated WET Weather tires that are readily available these days are nearly as good as the All Season tires are in the dry, but the Wet Weather tires somewhat outperform the All Season tires in the wet!

And just in case you also didn't get this bit the first time around, I'll also repeat the other important bit that I tried to put across before - in my opinion, I do not believe that for MOST Spyder riders, ie, those of us who MAY at some stage end up riding on wet roads, whatever fractional traction & braking performance difference there might be between dedicated Dry Weather High Performance tires and All Weather Sport/Touring tires in dry weather only simply does not warrant the degraded traction & braking that running dedicated Dry Weather tires in the wet brings! :lecturef_smilie:

Peter, I fully understand what you wrote in both of your replies. Based on your posted information, for dry weather performance, the high performance tires have better grip than the highest rated touring tires. In the rain, the touring tires have more grip. Your words also indicate to me, that the differences in grip are not too far apart.

You do add, that your opinion is that touring tires favor the riding type, style or expectations of the Spyder riding community.

So then, in simplest terms, high performance tires offer more grip in dry conditions compared to highest rated touring tires. (These are referred to as Grand Touring Tires on the Tire Rack website, when I checked Sport / Touring as you mentioned, here in the USA that brought up only motorcycle tires).
Continuing, it can be accepted that in wet conditions, the highest rated touring tires offer more grip compared to the high performance tires.

In my own words, without actual equal testing criteria, there is no way to truly quantify the “fraction of a difference” as you call it. This term though does puzzle me. How, if two items have a difference, can that be stepped down to a fraction of that difference?

Thank you kindly for your added input. Without doubt, it shall help many readers here.

 

[Peter Aawen]

Peter, I fully understand what you wrote in both of your replies. Based on your posted information, for dry weather performance, the high performance tires have better grip than the highest rated touring tires. In the rain, the touring tires have more grip. Your words also indicate to me, that the differences in grip are not too far apart.

You do add, that your opinion is that touring tires favor the riding type, style or expectations of the Spyder riding community.

So then, in simplest terms, high performance tires offer more grip in dry conditions compared to highest rated touring tires. (These are referred to as Grand Touring Tires on the Tire Rack website, when I checked Sport / Touring as you mentioned, here in the USA that brought up only motorcycle tires).
Continuing, it can be accepted that in wet conditions, the highest rated touring tires offer more grip compared to the high performance tires.

In my own words, without actual equal testing criteria, there is no way to truly quantify the “fraction of a difference” as you call it. This term though does puzzle me. How, if two items have a difference, can that be stepped down to a fraction of that difference?

Thank you kindly for your added input. Without doubt, it shall help many readers here.

PMK, while you might be getting sorta close, you clearly don't understand what I wrote, altho it's hard to tell whether you're just not capable of understanding the complexity or you're deliberately trying to misunderstand & instead just pushing your own interpretation of a complex discussion; but rather than continuing to try to explain to someone who won't even try to understand; simply can't understand; or is deliberately misunderstanding & trying to impose their own misunderstanding onto others, let me just pose this one question to you & I'll leave it at your one word answer - it should be a simple yes or no answer:

Have you stopped beating your wife yet? Yes or No? :dontknow:

 

[FrogmanDave]

Comment deleted. I have decided to pull my nose out of this business.

 

[Knizar]

PMK, while you might be getting sorta close, you clearly don't understand what I wrote, altho it's hard to tell whether you're just not capable of understanding the complexity or you're deliberately trying to misunderstand & instead just pushing your own interpretation of a complex discussion; but rather than continuing to try to explain to someone who won't even try to understand; simply can't understand; or is deliberately misunderstanding & trying to impose their own misunderstanding onto others, let me just pose this one question to you & I'll leave it at your one word answer - it should be a simple yes or no answer:

Have you stopped beating your wife yet? Yes or No? :dontknow:

:roflblack:hyea::roflblack::clap: It doesn't get better than this!:bdh::banghead::roflblack:......:thumbup:...Bill