Anyone considered using blind threaded rivets & screws instead of plastic rivets?

[walstibsf]

Just kicking around this idea. Trying to think of the good, bad, and even ugly of this in functional terms.

Why struggle when when you don't have to?

Can't think of access needs while on a road trip, but you never know.

Could be easier for a non-Spyder shop to do in an emergency need.

I may not know the reality of this possible mod until after my next oil change.

Thoughts?

Thanks and laters...

Bobby

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Just kicking around this idea. Trying to think of the good, bad, and even ugly of this in functional terms.

Why struggle when when you don't have to?

Can't think of access needs while on a road trip, but you never know.

Could be easier for a non-Spyder shop to do in an emergency need.

I may not know the reality of this possible mod until after my next oil change.

Thoughts?

Thanks and laters...

Bobby

Can you provide a LINK or source for these .... I'd like to see what they look like .... thanks .... Mike :thumbup:

 

[UtahPete]

I think he means these. 30PCs 1/4"-20 Stainless Steel Rivet Nuts Nutsert Threaded Rivet Insert Rivnuts 1/4-20UNC https://a.co/d/fPI91GS

 

[BertRemington]

Me Me I Did!

Bobby -- as part of my normalization of almost all fasteners to stainless steel flanged button head hex machine screws I changed the push-pin holes to rivet nuts. I used two kinds depending on backing material. For thick material, usually metal, I used regular expanding rivet nuts. For thin material, usually ABS, I used a type of collapsing rivet nut similar to those used in drywall. You need an extra long mandrel for that -- I bought mine at Summit Racing. I'm really pleased how they turned out. Stainless steel is easy to see, I can use ball end T-handle hex (Allen) wrenches, I don't have to fuss with removing 8-year old pushpins, I use stainless steel washers for extra backing, etc etc. I bought so many fasteners Amazon wanted to put me on a subscription. :thumbup:

 

[walstibsf]

I think he means these. 30PCs 1/4"-20 Stainless Steel Rivet Nuts Nutsert Threaded Rivet Insert Rivnuts 1/4-20UNC https://a.co/d/fPI91GS

This is exactly what I was talking about. in 1/4- 20 or #10-24

 

[walstibsf]

Bobby -- as part of my normalization of almost all fasteners to stainless steel flanged button head hex machine screws I changed the push-pin holes to rivet nuts. I used two kinds depending on backing material. For thick material, usually metal, I used regular expanding rivet nuts. For thin material, usually ABS, I used a type of collapsing rivet nut similar to those used in drywall. You need an extra long mandrel for that -- I bought mine at Summit Racing. I'm really pleased how they turned out. Stainless steel is easy to see, I can use ball end T-handle hex (Allen) wrenches, I don't have to fuss with removing 8-year old pushpins, I use stainless steel washers for extra backing, etc etc. I bought so many fasteners Amazon wanted to put me on a subscription. :thumbup:

Thanks, Bert, for chiming in! I imagine these are much quicker, also, whilst accessing?

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I think he means these. 30PCs 1/4"-20 Stainless Steel Rivet Nuts Nutsert Threaded Rivet Insert Rivnuts 1/4-20UNC https://a.co/d/fPI91GS

Thank you for taking the time to provide the info :thumbup:...... Mike

 

[Gwolf]

Looks like a great idea. What the factory should have put there to begin with.

I bought a jar full of spare push pins and been just throwing them away and putting a new one in when they stripped out.

 

[UtahPete]

This is the other type, called a jack nut (better for plastic) https://a.co/d/6mLhgz9

 

[Navydad]

This is the other type, called a jack nut (better for plastic) https://a.co/d/6mLhgz9

Yes. Rivnuts have a tendency to spin if over tightened and then you have an issue. The plastic push pins are favored by manufacturing because of costs.

 

[EdMat]

Or, maybe go with a complete install kit......... https://www.amazon.com/s?k=KOOPATZ+Black+Jack+Nut+M6&crid=1LN0C1VHBLRR3&sprefix=koopatz+black+jack+nut+m6%2Caps%2C85&ref=nb_sb_noss

 

[BertRemington]

But wait there's more

Some notes:

* I used metric sizes to be compatible with the other Spyder fasteners
* the ball end hex (Allen) head provides a much wider range of access than Torx (which is pretty much straight-on only)
* my primary gripe with pushpins is getting the tool (I have several) in place to remove the locking insert; I wasn't going to change them out until I slipped once and scratched my finish:sour:
* jack-nut is similar to the multi-grip pre-bulbed shank "rivet nuts" I used for ABS bodywork; an extra long mandrel is required
* I used standard rivet nut tools, one two-handed for larger nuts and one single-handed for smaller nuts
* if you scroll down EdMat's Amazon page, you will see neoprene well nuts -- those are used for the Spyder speakers

 

[UtahPete]

I've used all of these, including well nuts, on RV projects but thus far not on the Spyder.

 

[M109Dreamer]

Yes. Rivnuts have a tendency to spin if over tightened and then you have an issue. The plastic push pins are favored by manufacturing because of costs.

I wonder if, when installing the Rivnuts, you could put a star washer similar to what is used on a battery if that would help to prevent the spinning?

 

[BertRemington]

M109 -- star washers even with inward-facing tangs won't help. What works is matching rivet nut to application (tension, shear, etc), to material (strength, thickness), and to installation quality. Proper alignment and tightening is critical and I've been on both sides of course so broken mandrels and drilled out nuts. One lesson-learned is tools -- buy the ones that ratchet. Another lesson is be prepared to fuss with adjustments on the tool and mandrel -- makes a bit difference in ease and quality of installation.

PS your Suzuki is quite stylish -- too bad its not your avatar.

 

[M109Dreamer]

Bert -- Yep, I used to have it on my Avatar. But then I used to get questions as to why I'm on a Spyder board. The wife has the Spyder, I get the luxury of working on it. That pic of my M109 is a bit old and have done a little more to it since then. But when we used to live in AZ we used to ride a lot more, the roads are so much better than in the south. We miss the riding but not the summers there in AZ.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

A word of caution. Do not use stainless steel screws in stainless steel rivnuts unless you lube them well, and even then you may have problems. SS in SS likes to gall, i.e. the molecular attraction at the interface can be so strong as to more or less weld the the two pieces together. When I was working for the military we always required SS bolt threads to be chrome plated if the bolts were going to be threaded into SS machine parts.

 

[BertRemington]

IMS -- I like living dangerously! Actually I only encountered galling in high torque situations in which case I did use an antiseize compound. Also sometimes a thread chase. But everyone should follow your advice unless they are ready to deal with the consequences.

 

[BamaJohn]

Looks like a great idea. What the factory should have put there to begin with.

I bought a jar full of spare push pins and been just throwing them away and putting a new one in when they stripped out.

Plus 1 on buying spares and throwing out the ones removed.....