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Accident July 7, 2018. Prayers needed
- Thread starter nslowmotion
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Purple Guy
New member
Take solace in the fact you two had the opportunity to have had "The Talk"!
There is no greater responsibility to carry out one's wishes.
Find peace in that Doc!
There is no greater responsibility to carry out one's wishes.
Find peace in that Doc!
Doc, So sorry for this continuing tough saga of Kathy's fight for survival following that tragic accident. Regardless of one's faith, this whole story really cries for all of us to understand before things go South in our lives to do a few things that allow for our wishes to be complied with.
For those of us who do not know what a Living Will is and I am not an attorney, it is a document that essentially articulates our wishes for care in the event that we become unable or incapacitated to make medical decisions for ourselves. This document does not have to be filled out by and attorney and there are generally no costs associated with it. In addition to the Living Will, a Medical Power of Attorney allows a selected person to make medical decisions for us in the event of incapacitation or other seriously compromising conditions.
Both my wife and I have these documents on file with our Family Doctor and also have them shared with several other sources in the event that both my wife and I were faced with some of the tough challenges you and Kathy have been faced with.
Life is precious but at times unpredictable and people of faith and those that do not believe in a higher power can find comfort in having our wishes carried out in the event of medical crises.
My wife and I hope that the card we sent has comforted you and Kathy as well as some of your other family members. I think all of us sense how much you care about Kathy and how much she has cared for you and that we are all hoping that everyone finds some peace and comfort in whatever way best works for you all.
For those of us who do not know what a Living Will is and I am not an attorney, it is a document that essentially articulates our wishes for care in the event that we become unable or incapacitated to make medical decisions for ourselves. This document does not have to be filled out by and attorney and there are generally no costs associated with it. In addition to the Living Will, a Medical Power of Attorney allows a selected person to make medical decisions for us in the event of incapacitation or other seriously compromising conditions.
Both my wife and I have these documents on file with our Family Doctor and also have them shared with several other sources in the event that both my wife and I were faced with some of the tough challenges you and Kathy have been faced with.
Life is precious but at times unpredictable and people of faith and those that do not believe in a higher power can find comfort in having our wishes carried out in the event of medical crises.
My wife and I hope that the card we sent has comforted you and Kathy as well as some of your other family members. I think all of us sense how much you care about Kathy and how much she has cared for you and that we are all hoping that everyone finds some peace and comfort in whatever way best works for you all.
As I said before Doc, our thoughts & prayers are with you both in this difficult time, and your Faith will lead you in doing what you should. 
ray:ray:ray:
ray:ray:ray:
Roadster Renovations
New member
Yes, we should have had living wills. We just never got around to it. Under a new Indiana law that came into effect on July 1, 2018, the hierarchy of who can say what happens is very clear cut. It blows my mind that this law started 6 days before her accident. Here is what it states. Very clear cut.
The second change is arguably more significant and relates to medical consent by family members or friends when a patient is incapable of providing medical consent on his or her own behalf (e.g., if the patient is unconscious, sedated, or assessed as mentally incompetent). For several decades, Indiana statutes have specified a list of individuals that could provide medical consent under such circumstances (including a spouse, a parent, an adult child, an adult grandchild, an adult sibling, or a grandparent). However, Indiana law was previously silent on the hierarchy of such individuals in the medical consent process. Such a process left health care providers in untenable situations in which family members disagreed as to medical intervention issues. Hospitals would often seek appointment of a court-appointed guardian for the incapacitated patient to sort out disagreements amongst family members. The appointment of a guardian often caused delay and confusion during an already difficult medical situation. However, effective July 1, 2018, health care providers can rely on a priority order of hierarchy, found under I.C. § 16-36-1-5, for issues concerning medical consent. Generally, the hierarchy specifies the following individuals for medical consent:
- A judicially appointed guardian;
- A spouse;
- An adult child;
- A parent;
- An adult sibling;
- A grandparent;
- An adult grandchild;
- The nearest other adult relative in the next degree of kinship;
- A friend; or
- The individual's religious superior.
The changes to Indiana’s medical consent laws and end-of-life POST directives are beneficial to both patients and health care providers. By allowing PAs and NPs to assist patients with POST directives, patients faced with a terminal disease or other serious illness will have easier access to POST directives. The new hierarchy for medical consent provides patients and providers clear guidelines for medical consent issues. If patients have concerns about the hierarchy established under the updated law, such individuals are free to create an advanced healthcare directive (a.k.a. “living will”) with an alternative hierarchy that would supersede the generic hierarchy established under the new law. Indiana’s updated law does not prohibit or overrule advanced healthcare directives – in fact, it encourages such arrangements. As Indiana’s updated law is implemented in the coming months, health care providers and patients will benefit from the clarity provided by the updated law.
Bob Denman
New member
We're praying for all of you, and hoping that it doesn't come down to the "pecking order" that you have just described... ray:ray:
ray:ray:
foxtail1
New member
I've not spoken up before, but I've been following your story since the accident. I'm so glad that you and Kathy had discussed this and that your choice is so clear cut. My husband and I have also had these talks (and followed up with the legal documents to back it up). We both count on the fact that the other loves us enough that our wishes will be followed. What you are doing for Kathy shows that love clearly.
You are in my thoughts.
You are in my thoughts.
mark4Jesus
New member
Praying for guidance and peace. If you haven't already, pray and read the Bible and allow the Holy Spirit to speak to you through God's Word.
Roadster Renovations
New member
Exactly what I am now doing, Mark. I have removed everything from my heart except what is best for Kathy. Anything other than that is selfish.
BriteSpydie
New member
IdahoMtnSpyder
Active member
May the love, peace, strength, and quieting spirit of the Lord surround you fully in this time of need.
Roadster Renovations
New member
Update on Kathy
Praise Report for Kathy 9/24 - Kathy entered her 11th week in the hospital yesterday. Hard to believe it has been over 70 days. I spent several hours with her. I didn't know it at the time when the Lord spoke to me on Friday at the meeting to tell them that I would give them an answer in 3 days why to do that, but I immediately thought that He was going to do something over that 3 days or I had something to do. I researched the new law concerning terminal patients and wrote up a very detailed plan to carry out Kathy's wishes this next week. I even included a page of the spin the media would put on this if I had to go to them. It went something like this, "Marine Corps Veteran unable to fulfill wife's last wishes due to hospital not following clear cut State law guidelines. I stuck both documents in an envelope, and addressed it to the Hospital Administrator. Sticking it in my pocket I went to her room and gave it to the charge nurse and then went on in to see Kathy. She was very alert today. Much more than usual. I began to slowly explain the nature of the damage to her brain from what the Neurologist told us and her prognosis for recovery. She listened intently and when I was finished I ask her if she wanted to live with those challenges. She shook her head no. We then got 2 other nurses into the room at separate times and had them ask her the same questions and she shook her head no to them also. Prior to Friday's meeting, I had no idea of the degree of brain damage Kathy has sustained. Nor the fact that it would be permanent. When the neurologist stated that it was very doubtful that she would ever gain anything but very limited use of her left side and the fact that her left brain is still misfiring, causing more damage, and her use of her right arm would be sporadic at best, it drove home her true condition for the first time. Even when the ICU chief stated that no one has a crystal ball and cannot predict a persons' recovery outcome, which is true to a certain extent, but we still have to go by the experts, and I have to say the Neurologist would have been the most informed in the room. So this weekend I have removed my emotion from the equation as much as possible. We don't want to lose our loved ones so much that we actually lose sight what is best for them. That is what Kathy's children are doing and to a certain extent that is what I have been doing. Unfortunately, this is very selfish for the person laying there, trapped in a body they cannot move, unable to communicate, trapped in their own mind, unable to break free.
I went back over many of our conversations; her talking about how it would be when she crossed over. Who would be there, what her dad would be probably doing. How as a Christian she longed for the far country. We talked about how it was talked in Exodus about having your cloak and staff ready at a moments' notice. And as Christians, we need to be ready at any moment to leave this world. The Bible says that we are but a breath of vapor. We talked about this world not really being our home. We talked about all the times that Kathy drug her kids to church over the years as she raised them in the Christian faith. And how they learned to trust in the Lord and were able to see firsthand just how strong a Christian woman their mom was. How she loved the Lord more than anything in this world. We talked about where we would meet each other if we were not able to go together at the same time. (first tree on the right) We spoke of fighting the good fight in this world as long as we could and spreading the Gospel of Jesus. (which I need to work on) We talked about her fear of being trapped here if something happened and their appeared to be no hope. Having one foot in Heaven and the other chained to Earth. Trapped between worlds and unable to ascend. She made me promise to never let that happen to her. That was her greatest fear by far.
When I remembered all these things I realized that I have been selfish. I wanted to keep her here for me. Because I will miss her so badly. She was such a large part of my life. I felt as though my heart was being ripped from my body. I was losing the absolute best part of myself. And I didn't want to be left behind, but I hear her in my mind saying, "We fight the good fight until we are called home." And it is not my time. But I do believe it is hers. I keep coming back to the promise we made each other. To not let the other suffer if they were unable to tell their wishes and would not be able to have any semblance of a normal life. I know that we all were hoping and praying for her to be able to return to us. But, as soon as she steps out of that damaged and broken body that she has been forced to be in for these 70 plus days, she will gain her glorified body, and complete healing. Kathy used to get a far away look in her eyes when she talked about actually meeting Jesus. How awesome that would be. I envy her. I wish it had been me. When I ask her to not worry, they will give her something to make things easier when she transitions, she shook her head telling me that she was not scared. Truly a woman of faith. I realize now that He wanted the 3 days so He could bring her awake enough to confirm her wishes. And, I had to make the commitment and write the letter to take her off of life support. Two interlocking parts that had to work together. Not sure of the timeline on everything. I will post it as soon as I know
Praise Report for Kathy 9/24 - Kathy entered her 11th week in the hospital yesterday. Hard to believe it has been over 70 days. I spent several hours with her. I didn't know it at the time when the Lord spoke to me on Friday at the meeting to tell them that I would give them an answer in 3 days why to do that, but I immediately thought that He was going to do something over that 3 days or I had something to do. I researched the new law concerning terminal patients and wrote up a very detailed plan to carry out Kathy's wishes this next week. I even included a page of the spin the media would put on this if I had to go to them. It went something like this, "Marine Corps Veteran unable to fulfill wife's last wishes due to hospital not following clear cut State law guidelines. I stuck both documents in an envelope, and addressed it to the Hospital Administrator. Sticking it in my pocket I went to her room and gave it to the charge nurse and then went on in to see Kathy. She was very alert today. Much more than usual. I began to slowly explain the nature of the damage to her brain from what the Neurologist told us and her prognosis for recovery. She listened intently and when I was finished I ask her if she wanted to live with those challenges. She shook her head no. We then got 2 other nurses into the room at separate times and had them ask her the same questions and she shook her head no to them also. Prior to Friday's meeting, I had no idea of the degree of brain damage Kathy has sustained. Nor the fact that it would be permanent. When the neurologist stated that it was very doubtful that she would ever gain anything but very limited use of her left side and the fact that her left brain is still misfiring, causing more damage, and her use of her right arm would be sporadic at best, it drove home her true condition for the first time. Even when the ICU chief stated that no one has a crystal ball and cannot predict a persons' recovery outcome, which is true to a certain extent, but we still have to go by the experts, and I have to say the Neurologist would have been the most informed in the room. So this weekend I have removed my emotion from the equation as much as possible. We don't want to lose our loved ones so much that we actually lose sight what is best for them. That is what Kathy's children are doing and to a certain extent that is what I have been doing. Unfortunately, this is very selfish for the person laying there, trapped in a body they cannot move, unable to communicate, trapped in their own mind, unable to break free.
I went back over many of our conversations; her talking about how it would be when she crossed over. Who would be there, what her dad would be probably doing. How as a Christian she longed for the far country. We talked about how it was talked in Exodus about having your cloak and staff ready at a moments' notice. And as Christians, we need to be ready at any moment to leave this world. The Bible says that we are but a breath of vapor. We talked about this world not really being our home. We talked about all the times that Kathy drug her kids to church over the years as she raised them in the Christian faith. And how they learned to trust in the Lord and were able to see firsthand just how strong a Christian woman their mom was. How she loved the Lord more than anything in this world. We talked about where we would meet each other if we were not able to go together at the same time. (first tree on the right) We spoke of fighting the good fight in this world as long as we could and spreading the Gospel of Jesus. (which I need to work on) We talked about her fear of being trapped here if something happened and their appeared to be no hope. Having one foot in Heaven and the other chained to Earth. Trapped between worlds and unable to ascend. She made me promise to never let that happen to her. That was her greatest fear by far.
When I remembered all these things I realized that I have been selfish. I wanted to keep her here for me. Because I will miss her so badly. She was such a large part of my life. I felt as though my heart was being ripped from my body. I was losing the absolute best part of myself. And I didn't want to be left behind, but I hear her in my mind saying, "We fight the good fight until we are called home." And it is not my time. But I do believe it is hers. I keep coming back to the promise we made each other. To not let the other suffer if they were unable to tell their wishes and would not be able to have any semblance of a normal life. I know that we all were hoping and praying for her to be able to return to us. But, as soon as she steps out of that damaged and broken body that she has been forced to be in for these 70 plus days, she will gain her glorified body, and complete healing. Kathy used to get a far away look in her eyes when she talked about actually meeting Jesus. How awesome that would be. I envy her. I wish it had been me. When I ask her to not worry, they will give her something to make things easier when she transitions, she shook her head telling me that she was not scared. Truly a woman of faith. I realize now that He wanted the 3 days so He could bring her awake enough to confirm her wishes. And, I had to make the commitment and write the letter to take her off of life support. Two interlocking parts that had to work together. Not sure of the timeline on everything. I will post it as soon as I know
bikerbillone
Well-known member
Just read this, how terribly difficult this must be, no words to describe this circumstance. In prayer there is solace.
Pirate looks at --
New member
Doc,
I have followed this story since July 7th and have seen the ups and downs you and Kathy have been through. I send you all of my thoughts and prayers that your hand is guided to do the right thing for you and most importantly for Kathy. I wish you both peace.ray:
I have followed this story since July 7th and have seen the ups and downs you and Kathy have been through. I send you all of my thoughts and prayers that your hand is guided to do the right thing for you and most importantly for Kathy. I wish you both peace.
ray:
You are a good husband and a good man Doc, and letting go is the hardest thing to do. Everyone comes to grip with this at a different rate so I hope the family gives you the love and support you deserve for such a difficult choice and finds their own path to peace as well.
God’s grace to you Kathy and the family.
God’s grace to you Kathy and the family.
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